2013

[C.C.]

[Go ask the Angels or the Marlins if they would have done things differently this past offseason right about now......

 

They'd probably say no.

[SouthSideRyan]

A little off subject but since we are probably going to have the second pick in the draft are their any studs in next years draft?

Nope.

 

We'll probably pick high in 2014 too, though.

 

Rodon!

 

Hooray! Hopefully we pick high in 2015 too

[dew1679666265]

[Go ask the Angels or the Marlins if they would have done things differently this past offseason right about now......

 

They'd probably say no.

 

The Marlins probably should have done things differently, but I was never a fan of most (or any) of their offseason moves.

[davell]

[Go ask the Angels or the Marlins if they would have done things differently this past offseason right about now......

 

Yeah, just think how much better the Angels would be set for the next few years if they weren't stuck with Pujols and Wilson.

Because paying him 23 mill a year, plus a mill more each season after is going to be a great deal? Especially with them likely to miss the playoffs on year 1, when he's cheap? No way his deal can be considered a solid investment. Wilson? I guess the jury is out, but again, he's not exactly been great in year 1 of his either.

[23sharks]

But I think the Theo regime is intrigued by the chance to build from the farm almost entirely and they see their opportunity to do that in Chicago with the media/fan frenzy for "young players who really want it and care" instead of "old, overpaid guys who just want to count their millions."

 

And that scares the hell out of me.

see, this is what i'm talking about

 

the preference around here was to aimlessly throw money at Ramirez, Pujols/Fielder, Wilson in some flaccid attempt to be a .500 team again

 

in all the raging over our current plight, it's somehow been glossed over that the new FO inherited like three useful assets in the entire system; it's not their fault people had absurdly unrealistic expectations

 

I can't see how anyone thought they would have a competitive team this year or next year. Theo has a lot of work to do overhauling the system. They've actually been a little better this year than I thought they'd be. My expectations were that they would be horrible this year and next, then hopefully we would start to see some of the younger guys produce the year after. Then I think you'll see Theo look to start adding guys via free agency.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Back to the CBA though, for those wanting us to be decent and gradually get better, while adding big name guys, do you have any idea how to do that AND build the system as well? Because you're drafting lower to begin with. You're losing draft allotment money that could give you flexibility to sign certain players others can't, so you're literal strategy is to just draft better?

 

 

Well, yes. That's what Theo Epstein built his name doing: Drafting better, later. If he can't do that, why did you hire Theo Epstein?

[C.C.]

A little off subject but since we are probably going to have the second pick in the draft are their any studs in next years draft?

Nope.

 

We'll probably pick high in 2014 too, though.

 

Rodon!

 

Hooray! Hopefully we pick high in 2015 too

 

Have we lowered our standards to the point that we want to lose to have the top pick in crappy draft years. I'd be all for it if it meant Prior or some can't miss prospects but their aren't any.

[davell]

Yeah, he's done as well or better than anyone. But he doesn't have the ability to overslot like he used to and even the way teams look at players now has changed as well, because of the CBA. He doesn't have all the extra comp picks he's had in the past. So again, if you go out and try to make this even an 80ish win team, you're losing your draft allotment partially, because you're probably losing a pick somewhere by signing the FA's in order to get to that 80 win level. Again, if it takes us a couple of shitty seasons to get to become an elite team longterm, I just don't see anyone here being disappointed.

[davell]

CC, again, it's too early to know whether or not there's elite talent to be had or not. The much larger IFA budget isn't even being touched on here either though. Considering there's basically around 100k difference per pick from worst to first, it's just as important as the draft. Having much more money to spend on IFA's than basically every team out there known to spend big money down there is a huge deal itself. And unlike the early draft returns, the early IFA talk says it's going to be a very good year to have lots of money to spend.

[d_money]

What is the length of time for the current CBA contract? What are the odds the drafting/bonus allotment will change at the renewal? What teams actually think this is good in its current format?

[Sammy Sofa]

Have we lowered our standards to the point that we want to lose to have the top pick in crappy draft years.

 

Yeah, it's a damn shame we're lowering ourselves from the long, illustrious history of victory this team is renowned for.

[UMFan83]

Wow did someone really give up on Rizzo after less than 200 ABs as a Cub in this thread? I'm actually surprised that I'm not more surprised.

[XZero771679666304]

[Go ask the Angels or the Marlins if they would have done things differently this past offseason right about now......

 

They'd probably say no.

 

The Marlins absolutely would (or at least should). They weren't all that close, their season has been a disaster, and their signings disappointing. Adding those players was a transparent attempt to put butts in the new seats, and it didn't even succeed in that.

 

I can't argue with the way the Angels went about things (though I still cringe at that Pujols contract, which is gonna look uglier in a couple years). This is because they had a pretty nice group of players on the roster already. Pujols and Wilson rounded out the team. Pujols and Wilson on the Cubs would have been band-aids on bullet wounds.

[davell]

What is the length of time for the current CBA contract? What are the odds the drafting/bonus allotment will change at the renewal? What teams actually think this is good in its current format?

I think, but am not 100% sure, it's for 5 years. Who knows? That's the only way to look at your 2nd question. If players start dropping into Indy Leagues and sitting out to get more money. Or if the 1st round talents start gettibg humongous overslots and the rest start to suffer, I guess it's conceivable. The best hope may be for Boras to throw such a fit that they begin to relook at things. That said, my guess is now that it's set this way, it'll stay close to this. As for your 3rd question, it's every team that didn't spend big on the draft. Because now, they're on equal footing with the teams that did and will be getting better players than they were before. Reinsdorf was who pushed for this naturally.

[Beer Kaese]

SSR: I think that the goal behind this obviously, is to have a very good, very young team(I'm sure you figured that, but feel I guess I should clarify, just in case). Obviously adding a FA or two, that are difference makers. And continually draft tons of pitching, since it's so volatile. So not to wind up as our early 2000's staffs did. I know we're all behind whatever they wind up doing and other than a very select few, I think we all have confidence they'll execute it. Do I think some of this could be done differently? Absolutely. But I fully acknowledge these guys are smart as hell and know whatever it is they've got planned and won't change course midstream. But this IS what I'm taking from what little we get out of them.

 

Draft tons of pitching is exactly what the Detroit Tigers did to go from horrible to contender in a small market. They signed Kenny Rogers after injury, Mags after injury and Ivan when no one wanted him.

[Guest]

Rizzo has fallen to LaHair type stats and if you did not notice his splits vs lefties are awful (not quite Lahair but sub mendoza). I wonder how long he is considered an everyday guy by everyone.

For the record, Colvin is out performing both. At home and on the road, vs righties and lefties, his split stats are better than either totals. I don't bring this up to say we should have kept him, or complain about the trade. I bring it up because many have ripped colvin as awful and a waste of space, yet he is outperforming "our future".

 

this is ridiculous in so many ways.

[SouthSideRyan]

[Go ask the Angels or the Marlins if they would have done things differently this past offseason right about now......

 

Yeah, just think how much better the Angels would be set for the next few years if they weren't stuck with Pujols and Wilson.

Because paying him 23 mill a year, plus a mill more each season after is going to be a great deal? Especially with them likely to miss the playoffs on year 1, when he's cheap? No way his deal can be considered a solid investment. Wilson? I guess the jury is out, but again, he's not exactly been great in year 1 of his either.

 

The Angels are 2.5 games out of the wildcard, and would be [expletive] terrible this year without Pujols and Wilson.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yeah, he's done as well or better than anyone. But he doesn't have the ability to overslot like he used to and even the way teams look at players now has changed as well, because of the CBA. He doesn't have all the extra comp picks he's had in the past. So again, if you go out and try to make this even an 80ish win team, you're losing your draft allotment partially, because you're probably losing a pick somewhere by signing the FA's in order to get to that 80 win level. Again, if it takes us a couple of [expletive] seasons to get to become an elite team longterm, I just don't see anyone here being disappointed.

 

I think you have too much faith in 2 drafts/IFA periods to provide the basis of a contender. Our front office is probably the best in baseball, but even the best in baseball can have an off draft.

[SouthSideRyan]

[Go ask the Angels or the Marlins if they would have done things differently this past offseason right about now......

 

They'd probably say no.

 

The Marlins absolutely would (or at least should). They weren't all that close, their season has been a disaster, and their signings disappointing. Adding those players was a transparent attempt to put butts in the new seats, and it didn't even succeed in that.

 

I can't argue with the way the Angels went about things (though I still cringe at that Pujols contract, which is gonna look uglier in a couple years). This is because they had a pretty nice group of players on the roster already. Pujols and Wilson rounded out the team. Pujols and Wilson on the Cubs would have been band-aids on bullet wounds.

 

And then the band-aids would fall off after 162 games.

[davell]

Yeah, he's done as well or better than anyone. But he doesn't have the ability to overslot like he used to and even the way teams look at players now has changed as well, because of the CBA. He doesn't have all the extra comp picks he's had in the past. So again, if you go out and try to make this even an 80ish win team, you're losing your draft allotment partially, because you're probably losing a pick somewhere by signing the FA's in order to get to that 80 win level. Again, if it takes us a couple of [expletive] seasons to get to become an elite team longterm, I just don't see anyone here being disappointed.

 

I think you have too much faith in 2 drafts/IFA periods to provide the basis of a contender. Our front office is probably the best in baseball, but even the best in baseball can have an off draft.

It's not 2 though, if we're awful next year. We got plenty of upside out of this past sraft and about the only thing Hendry left us with was some some interesting lower level guys as well. Once you add those guys to go with 2 more high pick and money classes, the system should be rock solid, even with a miss or three.

[SouthSideRyan]

Yeah, he's done as well or better than anyone. But he doesn't have the ability to overslot like he used to and even the way teams look at players now has changed as well, because of the CBA. He doesn't have all the extra comp picks he's had in the past. So again, if you go out and try to make this even an 80ish win team, you're losing your draft allotment partially, because you're probably losing a pick somewhere by signing the FA's in order to get to that 80 win level. Again, if it takes us a couple of [expletive] seasons to get to become an elite team longterm, I just don't see anyone here being disappointed.

 

I think you have too much faith in 2 drafts/IFA periods to provide the basis of a contender. Our front office is probably the best in baseball, but even the best in baseball can have an off draft.

It's not 2 though, if we're awful next year. We got plenty of upside out of this past sraft and about the only thing Hendry left us with was some some interesting lower level guys as well. Once you add those guys to go with 2 more high pick and money classes, the system should be rock solid, even with a miss or three.

 

But a top 3 system combined with a 75 win major league team still kinda sucks. Your current plan is counting on a 15+ win jump in year 4.

[Little Slide Rooter]

@JonHeymanCBS: #indians, who understand they have no chance to sign choo long-term, will again field offers for him. http://t.co/Irqbk1Rj

 

There's a guy I'd like to have in case they decide not to turn the Cubs into the 1993-2011 Pirates. Choo just turned 30, and could be worth a 5 year deal, especially judging by the upcoming free agent class. What would it take to pry him away from the Indians, and would it be worth it?

[davell]

Make trades, add FA at that point(or earlier) when you're confident in the base of the team. Right now, I doubt we're looking at anyone other than Castro, Rizzo, and Shark as a definite. Barney maybe. I think we'll make headway somehow this offseason and add another base guy or two. I really have been figuring we'd make big moves after next offseason, but I could be wrong obviously.

[dew1679666265]

@JonHeymanCBS: #indians, who understand they have no chance to sign choo long-term, will again field offers for him. http://t.co/Irqbk1Rj

 

There's a guy I'd like to have in case they decide not to turn the Cubs into the 1993-2011 Pirates. Choo just turned 30, and could be worth a 5 year deal, especially judging by the upcoming free agent class. What would it take to pry him away from the Indians, and would it be worth it?

 

I'd like Choo a lot, but I imagine the Indians will ask for too much and he may be a tad too old for the price tag he'll likely command. I'd rather pursue Upton this offseason.

[davell]

Makes no sense because they'll ask and get a ton for him. But he's basically what I guess our FO envisioned with the Fukudome signing.