Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters called up!

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we're just looking for potential long-term assets and don't give any care about their likelihood of performing in 2013, just give it to Vitters or Valbuena. At least if one of them hits, you have some real cost-controlled years to work with.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

4) Stewart's splits were better on the road than at home, so that's a bad argument.

 

No, dismissing the park factor because he had poor home stats is a bad argument. Without the hitter-friendly home park, he could have easily had even worse home stats. We'll never know, of course, but there's no reason to just dismiss park factors because a single player has an odd split.

[jumbo]

If we're just looking for potential long-term assets and don't give any care about their likelihood of performing in 2013, just give it to Vitters or Valbuena. At least if one of them hits, you have some real cost-controlled years to work with.

 

I don't personally think much of Valbuena as a starter. The handling of Vitters is questionable to me. I realize he is not looking good, but there's not much reason to not play him since he's up. Valbuena has had plenty of PT and he's been only slightly better than his career averages and at best not much more than a 1 WAR player. If he's a utility infielder that's great. But why not play Vitters now? On the radio today, Sveum was talking about how it matters to field the most competitive team possible in order to win games and honor the teams in the playoff run. But hey, don't tell the Astro's.

 

Anyway, I think it's pointless to sit Vitters now.

[CincyCubsFan]

Awesome, Svuem channeling Dusty Baker with that line.

[Warpticon]

4) Stewart's splits were better on the road than at home, so that's a bad argument.

 

No, dismissing the park factor because he had poor home stats is a bad argument. Without the hitter-friendly home park, he could have easily had even worse home stats. We'll never know, of course, but there's no reason to just dismiss park factors because a single player has an odd split.

 

You cannot be serious right now.

[Guest]

even though it's a dumb argument, logic does side with kyle on that one

[jumbo]

Awesome, Svuem channeling Dusty Baker with that line.

 

I have Todd Frazier on my fantasy team, so I got to read this Dusty quote about what happens when Votto comes back:

"Sometimes, you've got to wait your turn. I'm not pushing Scottie (Rolen) out the door at all. The world's in front of Frazier. Without the Fraziers and these guys, you can't win."

 

So he wants to sit Frazier so Rolen can play, but then to say that you can't win without the Frazier's of the world - I don't miss that guy a bit.

[davell]

What does anyone want Sveum to say? Our roster has already been traded through and has our best pitcher out for the year. We don't even have anyone that's ready to take a look at that's not already getting PT. We can play our best lineup every day and we're still looking at 100 losses and the 2nd pick.

[Warpticon]

even though it's a dumb argument, logic does side with kyle on that one

 

"We'll never know if it matters, but it totally qualifies as part of my MASSIVE TON OF REASONS he wouldn't produce" is logical to you?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

even though it's a dumb argument, logic does side with kyle on that one

 

"We'll never know if it matters, but it totally qualifies as part of my MASSIVE TON OF REASONS he wouldn't produce" is logical to you?

 

Explain why you think that having a better road OPS proves that hitting in Coors didn't help his performance in home games.

[Warpticon]

even though it's a dumb argument, logic does side with kyle on that one

 

"We'll never know if it matters, but it totally qualifies as part of my MASSIVE TON OF REASONS he wouldn't produce" is logical to you?

 

Explain why you think that having a better road OPS proves that hitting in Coors didn't help his performance in home games.

 

Explain where I said I believed that.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Getting away from the circular Ian Stewart arguments we've had a hundred times (I'm still right), Josh Vitters' BABIP dropped down to .098 just now. His batting line is 082/123/164

 

He has 4 hits on 41 balls in play, two of them doubles. If his BABIP were something even vaguely reasonable, like .280, he'd have seven additional hits. Let's just say one of those would be a double.

 

That'd make his line 197/231/279.

 

Okay, so I guess that's still horrible.

[Magnetic Curses]

Getting away from the circular Ian Stewart arguments we've had a hundred times (I'm still right), Josh Vitters' BABIP dropped down to .098 just now. His batting line is 082/123/164

 

He has 4 hits on 41 balls in play, two of them doubles. If his BABIP were something even vaguely reasonable, like .280, he'd have seven additional hits. Let's just say one of those would be a double.

 

That'd make his line 197/231/279.

 

Okay, so I guess that's still horrible.

 

i'd give him a couple more doubles

[jersey cubs fan]

Getting away from the circular Ian Stewart arguments we've had a hundred times (I'm still right), Josh Vitters' BABIP dropped down to .098 just now. His batting line is 082/123/164

 

He has 4 hits on 41 balls in play, two of them doubles. If his BABIP were something even vaguely reasonable, like .280, he'd have seven additional hits. Let's just say one of those would be a double.

 

That'd make his line 197/231/279.

 

Okay, so I guess that's still horrible.

 

That's what happens when your goal is to simply make contact with every pitch thrown.

[jersey cubs fan]

even though it's a dumb argument, logic does side with kyle on that one

 

"We'll never know if it matters, but it totally qualifies as part of my MASSIVE TON OF REASONS he wouldn't produce" is logical to you?

 

Explain why you think that having a better road OPS proves that hitting in Coors didn't help his performance in home games.

 

Explain where I said I believed that.

 

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

[Warpticon]

even though it's a dumb argument, logic does side with kyle on that one

 

"We'll never know if it matters, but it totally qualifies as part of my MASSIVE TON OF REASONS he wouldn't produce" is logical to you?

 

Explain why you think that having a better road OPS proves that hitting in Coors didn't help his performance in home games.

 

Explain where I said I believed that.

 

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

 

What is he right about?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

 

What is he right about?

 

Everything in the last year not involving the Sean Marshall trade.

[XZero771679666304]

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

 

What is he right about?

 

Everything in the last year not involving the Sean Marshall trade.

 

 

Yeah, okay.

 

Anyway, you were right to say it's leap to assume absolutely that because his h/r splits were essentially even that he gained no advantage from Coors. That said, your original statement made it sound like you were saying that his decent numbers had been propped up by Coors, which seems like weak assertion given his h/r spits and the "just because his splits aren't skewed it doesn't mean he wasn't helped out" response a likely hedge from someone who hadn't actually checked the splits.

 

And Warpticon never said Stewart was never aided by Coors, he implied that it was unlikely he had received much benefit, given his h/r splits. Which is a pretty reasonable assessment, imo.

Edited September 6, 2012 by XZero77

[sneakypower]

meph's constant self-aggrandizement was pretty pathetic, but kyle's is just a boring, desperate plea for attention

[XZero771679666304]

meph's constant self-aggrandizement was pretty pathetic, but kyle's is just a boring, desperate plea for attention

 

Meph's massaging of his own outsized ego was a borderline insufferable ploy at convincing others (and himself) that he was smarter than everyone else. That said, he was right more often than not and offered impressive analyses.

 

I've just assumed Kyle's horn blowing was just some sort of sad attempt at "look-at-me" humor. If he's being serious...well, I'm not sure what to say.

[jersey cubs fan]

meph's constant self-aggrandizement was pretty pathetic, but kyle's is just a boring, desperate plea for attention

 

Meph's massaging of his own outsized ego was a borderline insufferable ploy at convincing others (and himself) that he was smarter than everyone else. That said, he was right more often than not and offered impressive analyses.

.

 

Well he fooled you.

[KingCubsFan]

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

 

What is he right about?

 

Everything in the last year not involving the Sean Marshall trade.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/30728/ryan-flaherty

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/5371/jeff-baker

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/3853/aramis-ramirez

[abuck1220]

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

 

What is he right about?

 

Everything in the last year not involving the Sean Marshall trade.

 

 

Between this and da Adam Dunn comp, I'm non-sarcastically sold on LaHair. I think I even kinda want him in left when Rizzo comes up.

 

NAILED IT

[Warpticon]

Kyle is rarely right about anything but he is here.

 

What is he right about?

 

Everything in the last year not involving the Sean Marshall trade.

 

 

Yeah, okay.

 

Anyway, you were right to say it's leap to assume absolutely that because his h/r splits were essentially even that he gained no advantage from Coors. That said, your original statement made it sound like you were saying that his decent numbers had been propped up by Coors, which seems like weak assertion given his h/r spits and the "just because his splits aren't skewed it doesn't mean he wasn't helped out" response a likely hedge from someone who hadn't actually checked the splits.

 

And Warpticon never said Stewart was never aided by Coors, he implied that it was unlikely he had received much benefit, given his h/r splits. Which is a pretty reasonable assessment, imo.

 

It wasn't even about receiving benefit from Coors so much as not receiving detriment from being outside of it. Kyle's assertion was that not hitting at Coors was a reason why he wouldn't hit elsewhere...even though he had hit elsewhere already. "He probably can't hit outside of Coors!" "But he hit better outside of Coors when he was good." "Yeah, um, well, you can't ignore park factors!" is a pretty silly argument.

[XZero771679666304]

meph's constant self-aggrandizement was pretty pathetic, but kyle's is just a boring, desperate plea for attention

 

Meph's massaging of his own outsized ego was a borderline insufferable ploy at convincing others (and himself) that he was smarter than everyone else. That said, he was right more often than not and offered impressive analyses.

.

 

Well he fooled you.

 

How so? I don't think he was smarter than everyone else, he was just really good at math and had a very good grasp of sabr concepts before a lot of other people here did. He was spectacularly and hilariously wrong about a few things (J.R. Towles, anyone?) and was generally insufferable, but when he stuck to what he was actually good at (statistical analysis), he was usually spot on.

 

There are many here who have some reverence for him, but i'm not one of them.