2012 Draft Day Thread + Cubs Picks Discussion

[Jake]

I don't understand why Boras would care to engage in a lawsuit.

have the slotting system invalidate, thrown out, back to the old system of teams spending what they want.

 

So he his clients can make more money.

Don't know that it's worth the time and effort for him.

Compare Appel's slot with what Cole got last year. Or Correia's.

That's serious income each year.

[Guest]

I don't understand why Boras would care to engage in a lawsuit.

have the slotting system invalidate, thrown out, back to the old system of teams spending what they want.

 

So he his clients can make more money.

They'd have to make it some sort of class action suit, I would guess. Also, MLB is exempt from anti-trust laws. Much like Javier Baez, the do whatever the [expletive] they want.

[Clem Fandango]

If Boras files a lawsuit against MLB and it forced their hand to revert the draft rules back to the way they were I may actually applaud him for that, but in a "You magnificent bastard!" kind of way.

[davell]

If Boras somehow could get the draft rules back to the way they were, we should all bow and pay homage. Because that wouldn't benefit anyone more than us.

[tgkimmel]

Boras can sue if he wants, but he's not going to win. In fact, it would likely be thrown out at the first hearing. Like it or not, the system was collectively bargained by the league and union. His client is part of the union so really has no standing to sue. It's possible he could get it in front of an activist judge, but even that is no guarantee of a win and he would likely lose on appeal.

 

Not a lawyer, but that's the way i understand it.

[Jake]

...His client is part of the union ...

 

No, he's not.

[tgkimmel]

...His client is part of the union ...

 

No, he's not.

 

Okay, will be. Not gonna matter. NFL went through this a few years ago with the Williams kid from USC that wanted to come out earlier than was collectively bargained. He lost - quickly. Courts are VERY reluctant to interfere with what was collectively bargained.

[davell]

Callis said he thinks we're done. Not surprising. All in all, I loved our approach to the draft in year 1.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Callis said he thinks we're done. Not surprising. All in all, I loved our approach to the draft in year 1.

 

One top-tier position prospect and then a whole bunch of arms. I think that's the template for the next few years.

[Guest]

Callis said he thinks we're done. Not surprising. All in all, I loved our approach to the draft in year 1.

 

One top-tier position prospect and then a whole bunch of arms. I think that's the template for the next few years.

 

I could easily see them (if not expect them to - given the names currently on the top of the draft board) drafting a pitcher with their top pick next year.

[Jake]

...His client is part of the union ...

 

No, he's not.

 

Okay, will be. Not gonna matter. NFL went through this a few years ago with the Williams kid from USC that wanted to come out earlier than was collectively bargained. He lost - quickly. Courts are VERY reluctant to interfere with what was collectively bargained.

He didn't have Boras representing him.

[jersey cubs fan]

...His client is part of the union ...

 

No, he's not.

 

Okay, will be. Not gonna matter. NFL went through this a few years ago with the Williams kid from USC that wanted to come out earlier than was collectively bargained. He lost - quickly. Courts are VERY reluctant to interfere with what was collectively bargained.

He didn't have Boras representing him.

 

Does Boras have a history of using the courts to overturn CBAs? He's got a hell of a lot more clients already in the union and a hell of a lot more money tied up the contracts he gets his veterans, and the union agreed to this system in a large part because they wanted money being spent on veterans, and not unproven kids.

[Guest]

Callis said he thinks we're done. Not surprising. All in all, I loved our approach to the draft in year 1.

 

One top-tier position prospect and then a whole bunch of arms. I think that's the template for the next few years.

 

I could easily see them (if not expect them to - given the names currently on the top of the draft board) drafting a pitcher with their top pick next year.

 

Yeah - I don't see them deviating from their opinion of BPA, be it pitcher or hitter.

[Guest]

Jake, your thought that Boras will go to court over the CBA is completely illogical.

[tgkimmel]

...His client is part of the union ...

 

No, he's not.

 

Okay, will be. Not gonna matter. NFL went through this a few years ago with the Williams kid from USC that wanted to come out earlier than was collectively bargained. He lost - quickly. Courts are VERY reluctant to interfere with what was collectively bargained.

He didn't have Boras representing him.

 

Does Boras have a history of using the courts to overturn CBAs? He's got a hell of a lot more clients already in the union and a hell of a lot more money tied up the contracts he gets his veterans, and the union agreed to this system in a large part because they wanted money being spent on veterans, and not unproven kids.

 

Boras is beyond good, he might even be Johnny Cochran or Rusty Hardin good, at what he does. But I don't see him getting around this one. Cheer up maybe he'll sign, he's got a little time left. Hard to walk away from guaranteed millions for the possiblilty of more next year. He is much more likely to hurt his value over the next year than help it, and he and Boras both know that.

[Jake]

Jake, your thought that Boras will go to court over the CBA is completely illogical.

So is Prince signing with the Tigers. :-)

 

Seriously...

 

Boras, when he does speak on the subject, has ranted against the system. He's also very good at exploiting loop holes. This time the loopholes seem closed, or at the very least very small. I think his only recourse might be the courts.

 

Or maybe he's just rolling the dice on next year. Just saw t his Keith Law tweet:

 

keithlaw (@keithlaw)

7/13/12 2:17 PM

Yes, and yes. RT @natsfan1234: @keithlaw is the draft weak next year? does appel have a chance to go top 2?

 

Could be there's no game here at all.

[Guest]

Jake, your thought that Boras will go to court over the CBA is completely illogical.

So is Prince signing with the Tigers. :-)

 

Seriously...

 

Boras, when he does speak on the subject, has ranted against the system. He's also very good at exploiting loop holes. This time the loopholes seem closed, or at the very least very small. I think his only recourse might be the courts.

 

Or maybe he's just rolling the dice on next year. Just saw t his Keith Law tweet:

 

keithlaw (@keithlaw)

7/13/12 2:17 PM

Yes, and yes. RT @natsfan1234: @keithlaw is the draft weak next year? does appel have a chance to go top 2?

 

Could be there's no game here at all.

 

He is exploiting the loopholes he can, getting teams to pay the tax (see the Cubs with Almora) and trying to push teams to forfeit picks for his players. And of course he doesn't like the new CBA. But taking advantage of loopholes isn't the same as a futile lawsuit.

[Guest]

Okay, will be. Not gonna matter. NFL went through this a few years ago with the Williams kid from USC that wanted to come out earlier than was collectively bargained. He lost - quickly. Courts are VERY reluctant to interfere with what was collectively bargained.

He didn't have Boras representing him.

 

Does Boras have a history of using the courts to overturn CBAs? He's got a hell of a lot more clients already in the union and a hell of a lot more money tied up the contracts he gets his veterans, and the union agreed to this system in a large part because they wanted money being spent on veterans, and not unproven kids.

 

Boras is beyond good, he might even be Johnny Cochran or Rusty Hardin good, at what he does. But I don't see him getting around this one. Cheer up maybe he'll sign, he's got a little time left. Hard to walk away from guaranteed millions for the possiblilty of more next year. He is much more likely to hurt his value over the next year than help it, and he and Boras both know that.

 

It's probably easier to walk away from a one-time $3 million bonus when your dad makes more than that each year and you're supremely confident you can make more than that next year.

[TheClash]

I love how the new system is supposed to protect small market teams and in year 1 we're all talking about the pirates getting screwed.

 

 

thanks bud

[Jake]

I love how the new system is supposed to protect small market teams and in year 1 we're all talking about the pirates getting screwed.

 

 

thanks bud

Isn't that one of the Ironies. Even if Appel signs, we're still not able to operate as we have the previous couple of years.

 

Any notion that this was meant to help small market teams is ridiculous. We still can't afford to sign the main line players (I'm talking the Albert Pujolses of the world.) Our strategy to overcome this was to outspend on draft and international signings, and that was taken away.

[Guest]

While I agree that the CBA's restrictions on the draft and IFA are brutal, I have little sympathy for the Pirates. 7 other teams passed on Appel and Boras informed teams of Appel's demands. They knew what they were getting into when they picked him, and passed on 2 guys they liked in Marrero and Russell.

[Jake]

While I agree that the CBA's restrictions on the draft and IFA are brutal, I have little sympathy for the Pirates. 7 other teams passed on Appel and Boras informed teams of Appel's demands. They knew what they were getting into when they picked him, and passed on 2 guys they liked in Marrero and Russell.

It was a risk to be sure. Huntington said so at the time, noting that we'd get the #9 pick next year.

 

He was picked because the Pirates brass felt he was the best player remaining.

 

Based on these signing, http://www.bucsdugout.com/2012/7/13/3156936/mlb-draft-signing-deadline-open-thread, The Pirates have moved on.

[davell]

Yeah, the Pirates took a guy they knew was going to be hard for them to get. That's their own doing. They WILL get a free supplemental 1st or 2nd rounder here in a few days with the lottery. That still DOES give them an advantage over major clubs, with the new draft format. Gives them a bigger creativity level, once that money is added to their draft pool. Bottom line though, is if the draft wouldn't have changed, Appel wouldn't have made it to them anyway. In the end, the extra 1st next year could be a blessing in the end, we just don't know yet.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yeah, the Pirates took a guy they knew was going to be hard for them to get. That's their own doing. They WILL get a free supplemental 1st or 2nd rounder here in a few days with the lottery. That still DOES give them an advantage over major clubs, with the new draft format. Gives them a bigger creativity level, once that money is added to their draft pool. Bottom line though, is if the draft wouldn't have changed, Appel wouldn't have made it to them anyway. In the end, the extra 1st next year could be a blessing in the end, we just don't know yet.

 

Yeah. This was planned all along for the Pirates. Taking Appel was their way of passing. Next year they get their regular pick + No. 9 pick + competitive balance pick, and that gives them a ton of pool flexibility.

[tgkimmel]

Okay, will be. Not gonna matter. NFL went through this a few years ago with the Williams kid from USC that wanted to come out earlier than was collectively bargained. He lost - quickly. Courts are VERY reluctant to interfere with what was collectively bargained.

He didn't have Boras representing him.

 

Does Boras have a history of using the courts to overturn CBAs? He's got a hell of a lot more clients already in the union and a hell of a lot more money tied up the contracts he gets his veterans, and the union agreed to this system in a large part because they wanted money being spent on veterans, and not unproven kids.

 

Boras is beyond good, he might even be Johnny Cochran or Rusty Hardin good, at what he does. But I don't see him getting around this one. Cheer up maybe he'll sign, he's got a little time left. Hard to walk away from guaranteed millions for the possiblilty of more next year. He is much more likely to hurt his value over the next year than help it, and he and Boras both know that.

 

It's probably easier to walk away from a one-time $3 million bonus when your dad makes more than that each year and you're supremely confident you can make more than that next year.

 

I get it, but to me it's a stupid gamble. If you think you are that good, the opportunity cost (year of lost service time) is going to be worth much more than the $5 million or so more he could make if everything went "perfectly" next year and he was drafted #1 by a team that managed to about $1 million over slot. Seems to me he is more likely to lose both time and money than gain anything. Oh well, last time I checked neither Boras nor his client had called me for advice.