Minor League Discussion & Boxes 4-17-12

[rawaction]

I know PCL stats should be taken with a grain of salt, but how much less useful can Cardenas, Valbuena, and Campana be than DeWitt, Baker, and Johnson?

 

Why Baker and not Mather?

[davell]

Like it or not, Reed is here to mentor some of the youngsters.

[toonsterwu]

Considering his age, I really wouldn't mind seeing Greg Rohan up at some point in Tennessee, if he keeps up his hot start. It'd be a lot of corner guys in AA, but I'm sure there's some way to mix Rohan at 3rd with Cerda, a dash of Rohan in LF, and maybe an occasional look at 1st.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know PCL stats should be taken with a grain of salt, but how much less useful can Cardenas, Valbuena, and Campana be than DeWitt, Baker, and Johnson?

 

Why Baker and not Mather?

 

Because I completely forgot that Mather existed. Ty Wright can replace him for all I care.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Like it or not, Reed is here to mentor some of the youngsters.

 

And why not let Lindsey Lohan and Bobby Brown mentor the youth of America while we're at it.

[scarey]

Simpson seemed like an ego driven pick. To prove how good of an eye Wilken has.

 

100% agree.

 

And I'd have been perfectly content with it for the 3rd or 4th round, but with the 15th pick in the draft, a risk like that is idiotic especially considering the state that the Cubs farm system was in at the time. It that if Theo were around at time it wouldn't have happened.

 

 

I think it's a bit unfair to criticize Wilken for Simpson based on the fact that Simpson has been sick/injured. If that was the major flag on Simpson, that he was injury prone, I could understand people criticizing now. However, he was a guy that was under the radar, had several plus pitches, and could pitch in the mid 90's. Plus, we've heard reports that another team or two (the Angels being one of them I believe?) were ready to jump on him if the Cubs had not picked him. Sure, he was a risk to not live up to what the Cubs profiled him as, but I don't think anyone considered for a second things would turn out the way they have.

 

I get that it was criticized at the time and I can understand why. But to use his ineffectiveness due to sickness/injury to justify your opinion when the pick was made is, as I said, a bit unfair.

[TruffleShuffle]

Like it or not, Reed is here to mentor some of the youngsters.

 

hopefully he's not mentoring them on plate discipline.

[davell]

The Angels had a pick in the 50's that they were targeting him with. The mystery team was using a supplemental rounder as well. I'm just not of the belief Wilken didn't see 16 players in that draft that were better than him. He also said it was not a monetary decision. At the very least, it was a very risky pick, especially since he was a smallish pitcher, pitching for a small school. The right thing to do was to take someone considered to be in the mid first draft area and hope he fell past the 2 teams down to the 2nd, where it wouldn't hurt as bad, if he busted. Like I mentioned earlier, this pick smelled of Wilken wanting to brag to his buddies about finding a diamond in the rough.

[Guest]

http://www.thecubreporter.com/2012/04/17/dong-dinger-slams-door-angel-comeback-bid

 

Dong-Yub Kim hit a grand slam in Arizona today. Dan Vogelbach and Gioskar Amaya both hit doubles. Also, Mark Malave played a bit of 3B and went 1/1 with a single.

[davell]

I am hopeful Acosta and Malave stick and play in Arizona this season.

[Guest]

I am hopeful Acosta and Malave stick and play in Arizona this season.

 

Only if they deserve to (unlike Larry Suarez's first season with the Cubs).

[davell]

Agreed, but the reports on both seem very solid at least.

[toonsterwu]

The Angels had a pick in the 50's that they were targeting him with. The mystery team was using a supplemental rounder as well. I'm just not of the belief Wilken didn't see 16 players in that draft that were better than him. He also said it was not a monetary decision. At the very least, it was a very risky pick, especially since he was a smallish pitcher, pitching for a small school. The right thing to do was to take someone considered to be in the mid first draft area and hope he fell past the 2 teams down to the 2nd, where it wouldn't hurt as bad, if he busted. Like I mentioned earlier, this pick smelled of Wilken wanting to brag to his buddies about finding a diamond in the rough.

 

Who, though? I saw the names that people mentioned the other day about guys drafted after Hayden - most of them were high cost prep picks that, realistically, we probably couldn't take due to cost. 2011 was the only year they publicized how the strings were significantly loosened - for all the talk from Wilken about how cost wasn't an issue, the reality is, when the strings were loosened in 2011, he talked openly about the freedom to get guys, so all his talk about previous year picks not being money related seem to be more "toeing the company line" type comments.

 

Take aside the how cost prep guys (and I know I was actually pushing for O'Connor that year), and what's left? Zack Cox can be ruled out for a similar reason. That leaves ... Gary Brown? Alex Wimmers? Kyle Parker? A few others that aren't coming to mind? Parker was risky due to not playing the sport full time. We just drafted Brett Jackson the year before. You could make a case for Wimmers, but Wimmers was viewed, IIRC, as more of a high floor pick.

[davell]

I honestly think we wanted Whitson. I'll admit the guys I wanted us to take haven't done a damned thing. Josh Sale and Stetson Allie. Wimmers wouldn't have been a popular choice, but he was definitely safer. My guess is you're right about spending, to an extent. In signing Golden and Wells, all it did was basically make up for the underslot of Simpson. I figure they could've found someone at 16 who was willing to take slot and we would have been fine still spending on Golden and Wells.

[toonsterwu]

I honestly think we wanted Whitson. I'll admit the guys I wanted us to take haven't done a damned thing. Josh Sale and Stetson Allie. Wimmers wouldn't have been a popular choice, but he was definitely safer. My guess is you're right about spending, to an extent. In signing Golden and Wells, all it did was basically make up for the underslot of Simpson. I figure they could've found someone at 16 who was willing to take slot and we would have been fine still spending on Golden and Wells.

 

It's hard to buy that we could've fit Whitson in there and convinced him to turn pro. Even if we could, considering the final layout, financially, that year, that, based on the rumors of what I recall on Whitson's demands, would've significantly limited the entire draft. Anyhow, it wasn't an option.

 

I'm not that down on either Sale or Allie, but I don't buy that we could've taken them for the same financial reasons. The Rays tend to slowplay prep guys, and Allie was a big, young arm - willing to give it time on that one.

 

Would getting Wimmers have made things any better in retrospect? He's looking awfully pedestrian right now.

[davell]

In the grand scheme of things, you're absolutely correct. My issue was the reaching. I'd even have went a safer route, in this exact scenario. And I would usually be all about upside. I hate to say it, but there wound up being very few good options for us in that spot, I guess I just will always look at this one, like it was Al Davis, a stopwatch, and a 4.35. Guy may be a 4th rounder, but you have to prove you're seeing something no one else does and take him early. At least, that draft hasn't been littered with guys we can get pissed about.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Like it or not, Reed is here to mentor some of the youngsters.

 

hopefully he's not mentoring them on plate discipline.

 

He'll mentor them on crashing into walls and edgy facial hair.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't think I could dream up a more awful AAAA junk baller than Nate Robertson if I tried. My guess is that experiment will be over by lunch time today.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The VittersBBs have disappointingly dried up.

[sneakypower]

well, eventually a pig's lipstick will rub off

[jersey cubs fan]

His OPS is still over 700

[illiniguy]

I honestly think we wanted Whitson. I'll admit the guys I wanted us to take haven't done a damned thing. Josh Sale and Stetson Allie. Wimmers wouldn't have been a popular choice, but he was definitely safer. My guess is you're right about spending, to an extent. In signing Golden and Wells, all it did was basically make up for the underslot of Simpson. I figure they could've found someone at 16 who was willing to take slot and we would have been fine still spending on Golden and Wells.

 

It's hard to buy that we could've fit Whitson in there and convinced him to turn pro. Even if we could, considering the final layout, financially, that year, that, based on the rumors of what I recall on Whitson's demands, would've significantly limited the entire draft. Anyhow, it wasn't an option.

 

I'm not that down on either Sale or Allie, but I don't buy that we could've taken them for the same financial reasons. The Rays tend to slowplay prep guys, and Allie was a big, young arm - willing to give it time on that one.

 

Would getting Wimmers have made things any better in retrospect? He's looking awfully pedestrian right now.

We would have been better off reaching on Lee and not signing him, thus banking the pick for when we could have spent. IMO.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Anyone else completely unimpressed with those names? Sale projects as a LF/DH...Wimmers is eh...Coward didn't want to pitch...Allie has great arm strength but is/was a major project even more than most HS pitchers...Could fault them for guys like Walker, but who saw that coming (not the Cubs scouting department!)? Biddle later on I liked alot, but no one saw him as a mid-first guy....Zach Lee was expensive...

 

Of course there's plenty of ways to drive around or through this (Shark was a multi-sport athlete, yadda yadda waddle doodle), but a huge amount of Cubs fans wrote Shark off really quickly as well.

 

All that defense aside...Shark stayed healthy and Simpson right now is looking like an injury bust...

[toonsterwu]

As intrigued as I would've been with the idea of a Zach Lee gamble (I assume that's who you were referencing), and taking a pick in 2011 if he didn't sign, I don't know if any of us knew, in 2010, that the Cubs were going to significantly bump their draft spending in 2011. I also think most teams don't like the idea of missing out on a draft pick in the first round. You'd rather get a guy in and develop him than hoping for a good talent next year. There's something to be said for trusting your scouts, even if they miss, and I believe, off the top, that the same guy who scouted Hayden was the same guy who scouted Ben Wells.

 

As a side note, off the top again, but I think Taijuan Walker struggled in his final year in HS, and thus, went from a possible first to compensatory.

[sneakypower]

Anyone else completely unimpressed with those names? Sale projects as a LF/DH...Wimmers is eh...Coward didn't want to pitch...Allie has great arm strength but is/was a major project even more than most HS pitchers...Could fault them for guys like Walker, but who saw that coming (not the Cubs scouting department!)? Biddle later on I liked alot, but no one saw him as a mid-first guy....Zach Lee was expensive...

Taijuan Walker, Nick Castellanos, Zach Lee, Christian Yelich, Zack Cox, Gary Brown, Tyrell Jenkins, Mike Olt, Aaron Sanchez, Bryce Brentz, Noah Syndergaard, Anthony Ranaudo, Asher Wojciechowski would have all been fine picks also at that spot

 

now we're hoping we can get a couple Syndergaard- and Castellanos-types back in a package for the low price of Matt [expletive] Garza when we could've just had one just for the hell of it, had we not made a pick which was basically the equivalent of a lottery ticket where you stand to win like $1000 if it actually hits

 

[expletive].