Re: College Basketball 2012-2013

[Smack]

Oh wait, I think I did my math wrong. IU is over by 1 in 12, 13, and 14 now. If Anya comes they're over by 2 in 13, and 14, and have 1 spot in 15 open.

 

It's pretty obvious that either a sophomore or a freshman is going to leave the program altogether, if it is because of a transfer or because one of the freshman didn't become academically ineligible. That will reset the scholarship numbers. Creek also probably won't get a 5th year, and then they might try to sign Anya as an oversign in preparation for Zeller leaving. If all those happened, then IU would be fine in all three years again. If they don't get Anya and Zeller leaves, then they probably give the scholarship to Creek for that year and recruit somebody else in the 2014 class.

 

That would all be assuming Crean is done handing out scholarships. No way that's true. Don't worry, Crean will do what needs to be done and by all means I'm fine with this. It's going to catch up with him. There are a lot of talented 2014 kids out there that Purdue is in the running for that IU doesn't have room for (for now).

 

It's only a matter of time until he sells his soul completely (if he hasn't already) and trys to become Kentucky. The difference right now is that Cal is recruiting Top 20 kids every year and doesn't have to run anyone off because a lot of them leave for the NBA. Crean has a roster half full of 3 star kids that are in his way. It's May of 2012 and he's got essentially all of his scholarships used for the next four full seasons.

[Smack]

Mark Donnal surely isn't a better recruit than Zak Irvin at this moment in time, but Scout is also under the impression we have two different Nick Stauskases in the '12 class, so what's the use in quibbling

 

Don't make Sulley come after you.

[Exile on Waveland]

Oh wait, I think I did my math wrong. IU is over by 1 in 12, 13, and 14 now. If Anya comes they're over by 2 in 13, and 14, and have 1 spot in 15 open.

 

It's pretty obvious that either a sophomore or a freshman is going to leave the program altogether, if it is because of a transfer or because one of the freshman didn't become academically ineligible. That will reset the scholarship numbers. Creek also probably won't get a 5th year, and then they might try to sign Anya as an oversign in preparation for Zeller leaving. If all those happened, then IU would be fine in all three years again. If they don't get Anya and Zeller leaves, then they probably give the scholarship to Creek for that year and recruit somebody else in the 2014 class.

 

I would be pretty surprised if Zeller is the only IU player the next two years to leave early for the NBA. Oladipo is on track to graduate in three years -- as Hulls and Elston just did -- and, if his development arc continues to be even remotely constant, he'll be an early-entry candidate next year. There are multiple players in the incoming class with the potential be two-and-done quality.

 

Or, if that fails, they could just rescind a scholarship offer of a committed player and force a current player off a basketball scholarship and onto a football scholarship.

[rawaction]

Oh wait, I think I did my math wrong. IU is over by 1 in 12, 13, and 14 now. If Anya comes they're over by 2 in 13, and 14, and have 1 spot in 15 open.

 

It's pretty obvious that either a sophomore or a freshman is going to leave the program altogether, if it is because of a transfer or because one of the freshman didn't become academically ineligible. That will reset the scholarship numbers. Creek also probably won't get a 5th year, and then they might try to sign Anya as an oversign in preparation for Zeller leaving. If all those happened, then IU would be fine in all three years again. If they don't get Anya and Zeller leaves, then they probably give the scholarship to Creek for that year and recruit somebody else in the 2014 class.

 

I would be pretty surprised if Zeller is the only IU player the next two years to leave early for the NBA. Oladipo is on track to graduate in three years -- as Hulls and Elston just did -- and, if his development arc continues to be even remotely constant, he'll be an early-entry candidate next year. There are multiple players in the incoming class with the potential be two-and-done quality.

 

Or, if that fails, they could just rescind a scholarship offer of a committed player and force a a current player off basketball scholarship and onto a football scholarship.

 

Stupid question. But do you have to play football to be on a football scholarship? Who qualifies on the current or future teams?

[Exile on Waveland]

Oh wait, I think I did my math wrong. IU is over by 1 in 12, 13, and 14 now. If Anya comes they're over by 2 in 13, and 14, and have 1 spot in 15 open.

 

It's pretty obvious that either a sophomore or a freshman is going to leave the program altogether, if it is because of a transfer or because one of the freshman didn't become academically ineligible. That will reset the scholarship numbers. Creek also probably won't get a 5th year, and then they might try to sign Anya as an oversign in preparation for Zeller leaving. If all those happened, then IU would be fine in all three years again. If they don't get Anya and Zeller leaves, then they probably give the scholarship to Creek for that year and recruit somebody else in the 2014 class.

 

I would be pretty surprised if Zeller is the only IU player the next two years to leave early for the NBA. Oladipo is on track to graduate in three years -- as Hulls and Elston just did -- and, if his development arc continues to be even remotely constant, he'll be an early-entry candidate next year. There are multiple players in the incoming class with the potential be two-and-done quality.

 

Or, if that fails, they could just rescind a scholarship offer of a committed player and force a a current player off basketball scholarship and onto a football scholarship.

 

Stupid question. But do you have to play football to be on a football scholarship? Who qualifies on the current or future teams?

 

That was a dig at Purdue, who did exactly that when they needed a scholarship for Gary Harris. I wasn't discussing a serious option for IU; you have to be a football player to be on football scholarship, yes.

[Smack]

Oh wait, I think I did my math wrong. IU is over by 1 in 12, 13, and 14 now. If Anya comes they're over by 2 in 13, and 14, and have 1 spot in 15 open.

 

It's pretty obvious that either a sophomore or a freshman is going to leave the program altogether, if it is because of a transfer or because one of the freshman didn't become academically ineligible. That will reset the scholarship numbers. Creek also probably won't get a 5th year, and then they might try to sign Anya as an oversign in preparation for Zeller leaving. If all those happened, then IU would be fine in all three years again. If they don't get Anya and Zeller leaves, then they probably give the scholarship to Creek for that year and recruit somebody else in the 2014 class.

 

I would be pretty surprised if Zeller is the only IU player the next two years to leave early for the NBA. Oladipo is on track to graduate in three years -- as Hulls and Elston just did -- and, if his development arc continues to be even remotely constant, he'll be an early-entry candidate next year. There are multiple players in the incoming class with the potential be two-and-done quality.

 

Or, if that fails, they could just rescind a scholarship offer of a committed player and force a current player off a basketball scholarship and onto a football scholarship.

 

You think Oladipo is a first round talent after next year? You think Perea and Yogi are first round talents after two years? Isn't Yogi 5' 10"? When's the last time a 5' 10" player got drafted in the first round? You don't levae early to get a non-guaranteed contract in the 2nd round. Nah, this is going to be Jurkin, Etherington, Abell (isn't this the latest rumor?), etc. getting run out of town.

 

I know you're just defending your boy but this is going to get much worse on the integrity front. If you think he's done recruiting for the next four years and or think you've got 4+ first round NBA talents on your roster... well... I don't know what to say... You may very well win a championship though and that's what's important!

 

Bade, by the way, will graduate with a Purdue degree on scholarship the whole time.

 

edit: IU's football program could sure use any help Crean could provide though...

[illiniguy]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

[Smack]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

 

No, you don't understand. He HAS to go pro. :D

[illiniguy]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

 

No, you don't understand. He HAS to go pro. :D

That seems foolish, he's a damn good college player. I doubt that's the guy that gets Creaned.

[Smack]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

 

No, you don't understand. He HAS to go pro. :D

That seems foolish, he's a damn good college player. I doubt that's the guy that gets Creaned.

 

Oh, I know, I'm just kidding. The latest rumor I've heard from my IU friends is Abell. That doesn't make sense either, who the hell is going to back up Yogi? My favorite idea is sending Jurkin to prep school because the scholarship situation really clears up after this year, lol.

[illiniguy]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

 

No, you don't understand. He HAS to go pro. :D

That seems foolish, he's a damn good college player. I doubt that's the guy that gets Creaned.

 

Oh, I know, I'm just kidding. The latest rumor I've heard from my IU friends is Abell. That doesn't make sense either, who the hell is going to back up Yogi? My favorite idea is sending Jurkin to prep school because the scholarship situation really clears up after this year, lol.

Must be a nice problem to have.

[Exile on Waveland]

You think Oladipo is a first round talent after next year? You think Perea and Yogi are first round talents after two years? Isn't Yogi 5' 10"? When's the last time a 5' 10" player got drafted in the first round? You don't levae early to get a non-guaranteed contract in the 2nd round. Nah, this is going to be Jurkin, Etherington, Abell (isn't this the latest rumor?), etc. getting run out of town.

 

I know you're just defending your boy but this is going to get much worse on the integrity front. If you think he's done recruiting for the next four years and or think you've got 4+ first round NBA talents on your roster... well... I don't know what to say... You may very well win a championship though and that's what's important!

 

Bade, by the way, will graduate with a Purdue degree on scholarship the whole time.

 

First of all, framing the early-entry argument as a "first round talent" decision is specious. You know as well as I do that players leave despite not being first-round locks. I'm sure that will happen to an IU player at some point (it very nearly happened with Watford this year -- and I can promise you there's no way Crean wanted him gone).

 

That aside, I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibilities that Oladipo is a (at least marginal) first-round possiblity next year (he has received some NBA looks, this may not be the most reliable site, but I don't have insider or anything: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/ (predicting Oladipo as twenty-first pick in second round)). He's obviously not there yet -- his ballhandling, decision-making, finishing, and shooting all need to improve. He is also always likely to be a bit of a tweener for the NBA, but tweeners make great third-guards. His athleticism is off-the-charts; even UK could not keep him out of the lane. With continued improvement, he could definitely be on an NBA bench in 2013-14.

 

As for the incoming players, I could see Ferrell, Hollowell, and Perea all potentially being two-and-done. I don't even think that highly of Perea -- to the point I'm not sure he'll ever be more than a role player at IU, much less an early-entry candidate -- but his size/athleticism make it at least possible (and some think much higher of him than I do). I'll go on record now saying that Hollowell won't be at IU for four years (though I'll guess three-and-done). As for Ferrell, who should at least measure as 5-foot-11, well, Trey Burke almost left this year. Additionally, 6-foot D.J. Augustin was the ninth pick after two years at Texas in 2008, 6-foot Jonny Flynn was the sixth pick in 2009 after two years at Syracuse, and 6-foot Kemba Walker was the ninth pick last year. That's just quickly off the top of my head. (Additionally, with the depth of IU's roster next year, I could easily see someone becoming impatient and transfering of their own volition -- not all transfers are sinister, you know.)

 

This is not just being defensive about "my boy." I have been very adament that the Capobianco situation stunk. I thought Crean should have been suspended for the Harris phone call -- at least as a symbol, because substantively it was not that big of an issue. That said, the "Creaning" issue basically lives only in the minds of Purdue and Illinois fans. It simply has not happened yet to any great extent and is based on worst-case scenario predictions by fans of teams that hate IU. If those predictions come true, I'll be the first to say it stinks. But there are other equally, if not more plausible, scenarios available. (As a guess, it's hard for me to believe Crean is unaware he would catch flack if IU becomes known for running multiple players off and would desire to avoid such a situation. But, hey, maybe not.)

 

As for Bade, first of all, you have no idea that Capobianco was not offered the same deal from IU and chose to play basketball at Valpo instead of "playing" football at IU. Either way, he, like Bade, was cleared off basketball scholarship because the coach wanted a superior player. Second, if graduation is now the important point, then your complaints regarding Roth look even sillier now.

[Smack]

You think Oladipo is a first round talent after next year? You think Perea and Yogi are first round talents after two years? Isn't Yogi 5' 10"? When's the last time a 5' 10" player got drafted in the first round? You don't levae early to get a non-guaranteed contract in the 2nd round. Nah, this is going to be Jurkin, Etherington, Abell (isn't this the latest rumor?), etc. getting run out of town.

 

I know you're just defending your boy but this is going to get much worse on the integrity front. If you think he's done recruiting for the next four years and or think you've got 4+ first round NBA talents on your roster... well... I don't know what to say... You may very well win a championship though and that's what's important!

 

Bade, by the way, will graduate with a Purdue degree on scholarship the whole time.

 

First of all, framing the early-entry argument as a "first round talent" decision is specious. You know as well as I do that players leave despite not being first-round locks. I'm sure that will happen to an IU player at some point (it very nearly happened with Watford this year -- and I can promise you there's no way Crean wanted him gone).

 

That aside, I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibilities that Oladipo is a (at least marginal) first-round possiblity next year (he has received some NBA looks, this may not be the most reliable site, but I don't have insider or anything: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/ (predicting Oladipo as twenty-first pick in second round)). He's obviously not there yet -- his ballhandling, decision-making, finishing, and shooting all need to improve. He is also always likely to be a bit of a tweener for the NBA, but tweeners make great third-guards. His athleticism is off-the-charts; even UK could not keep him out of the lane. With continued improvement, he could definitely be on an NBA bench in 2013-14.

 

As for the incoming players, I could see Ferrell, Hollowell, and Perea all potentially being two-and-done. I don't even think that highly of Perea -- to the point I'm not sure he'll ever be more than a role player at IU, much less an early-entry candidate -- but his size/athleticism make it at least possible (and some think much higher of him than I do). I'll go on record now saying that Hollowell won't be at IU for four years (though I'll guess three-and-done). As for Ferrell, who should at least measure as 5-foot-11, well, Trey Burke almost left this year. Additionally, 6-foot D.J. Augustin was the ninth pick after two years at Texas in 2008, 6-foot Jonny Flynn was the sixth pick in 2009 after two years at Syracuse, and 6-foot Kemba Walker was the ninth pick last year. That's just quickly off the top of my head. (Additionally, with the depth of IU's roster next year, I could easily see someone becoming impatient and transfering of their own volition -- not all transfers are sinister, you know.)

 

This is not just being defensive about "my boy." I have been very adament that the Capobianco situation stunk. I thought Crean should have been suspended for the Harris phone call -- at least as a symbol, because substantively it was not that big of an issue. That said, the "Creaning" issue basically lives only in the minds of Purdue and Illinois fans. It simply has not happened yet to any great extent and is based on worst-case scenario predictions by fans of teams that hate IU. If those predictions come true, I'll be the first to say it stinks. But there are other equally, if not more plausible, scenarios available. (As a guess, it's hard for me to believe Crean is unaware he would catch flack if IU becomes known for running multiple players off and would desire to avoid such a situation. But, hey, maybe not.)

 

As for Bade, first of all, you have no idea that Capobianco was not offered the same deal from IU and chose to play basketball at Valpo instead of "playing" football at IU. Either way, he, like Bade, was cleared off basketball scholarship because the coach wanted a superior player. Second, if graduation is now the important point, then your complaints regarding Roth look even sillier now.

 

I really don't have a problem with the Roth situation, I don't think I've ever said I have. Creek either if he doesn't get a 5th year. Someone not up for a 5th year still has to go (or not come) this year before the season starts. I just don't see anyone else doing this without gobs of Top 20 talent coming in. This is quite clearly his strategy going forward, to over commit scholarships 3-4 years out. The way he is pushing the 2015 kids he might have those spots full before this fall too.

 

How will you feel if he gets 15 or 16 kids comitted for 2013/2014? He's actively recruiting over guys as soon as they commit.

[Exile on Waveland]

I really don't have a problem with the Roth situation, I don't think I've ever said I have. Creek either if he doesn't get a 5th year. Someone not up for a 5th year still has to go (or not come) this year before the season starts. I just don't see anyone else doing this without gobs of Top 20 talent coming in. This is quite clearly his strategy going forward, to over commit scholarships 3-4 years out. The way he is pushing the 2015 kids he might have those spots full before this fall too.

 

How will you feel if he gets 15 or 16 kids comitted for 2013/2014? He's actively recruiting over guys as soon as they commit.

 

Well, if you weren't the one that initially posted the Indy Star Roth article, then I'll rescind my statement. If you were, then obviously you were using it as a complaint.

 

I don't think the relevant question is how many kids are committed. I think the relevant question is what happens to players that are already on scholarship/signed. If those players merely leave early for the NBA -- and I think a recruiting goal is recruiting quality student-athletes that can graduate in three years then go pro -- and are replaced, there's no issue. If there's a normal transfer attrition rate -- and, again, transfers do happen, and I'd posit the top reason is lack of playing time, so this is going to happen -- there's no issue. If the Capobianco situation, from which we can infer a forcing-out, becomes commonplace, then there's an issue. But we simply do not know at this point in time; you just suspect the worst because you're a Purdue fan.

[CubColtPacer]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

 

No, you don't understand. He HAS to go pro. :D

That seems foolish, he's a damn good college player. I doubt that's the guy that gets Creaned.

 

Oh, I know, I'm just kidding. The latest rumor I've heard from my IU friends is Abell. That doesn't make sense either, who the hell is going to back up Yogi? My favorite idea is sending Jurkin to prep school because the scholarship situation really clears up after this year, lol.

 

Abell makes some sense from a basketball standpoint. As promising as he was last year, he really has no place on this year's team. He should only get spot minutes without injuries.

 

His junior and senior year he should get a decent amount of minutes as the backup point guard, but I could completely understand if he wants to transfer and go play 3 years somewhere else and get more minutes.

 

I'd have a harder time swallowing Etherington since he helped recruit players to Indiana, even though he'll certainly get more playing time somewhere else. Jurkin and Patterson it would depend more on why they weren't coming. If they suddenly decided to transfer, that would be almost certainly at Crean's pushing. If they didn't qualify, that's a different matter.

[Smack]

I really don't have a problem with the Roth situation, I don't think I've ever said I have. Creek either if he doesn't get a 5th year. Someone not up for a 5th year still has to go (or not come) this year before the season starts. I just don't see anyone else doing this without gobs of Top 20 talent coming in. This is quite clearly his strategy going forward, to over commit scholarships 3-4 years out. The way he is pushing the 2015 kids he might have those spots full before this fall too.

 

How will you feel if he gets 15 or 16 kids comitted for 2013/2014? He's actively recruiting over guys as soon as they commit.

 

Well, if you weren't the one that initially posted the Indy Star Roth article, then I'll rescind my statement. If you were, then obviously you were using it as a complaint.

 

I don't think the relevant question is how many kids are committed. I think the relevant question is what happens to players that are already on scholarship/signed. If those players merely leave early for the NBA -- and I think a recruiting goal is recruiting quality student-athletes that can graduate in three years then go pro -- and are replaced, there's no issue. If there's a normal transfer attrition rate -- and, again, transfers do happen, and I'd posit the top reason is lack of playing time, so this is going to happen -- there's no issue. If the Capobianco situation, from which we can infer a forcing-out, becomes commonplace, then there's an issue. But we simply do not know at this point in time; you just suspect the worst because you're a Purdue fan.

 

I'm pretty sure SSR posted the article, my only Roth comment was that he reminded Crean of Dwyane Wade. I guess time will tell on who goes to the NBA. The first real test will be what happens with the player to be named later this fall.

[Exile on Waveland]

On the Illinois scout board some poster is arguing Sheehey will be going pro early. The best part is he's being serious.

 

No, you don't understand. He HAS to go pro. :D

That seems foolish, he's a damn good college player. I doubt that's the guy that gets Creaned.

 

Oh, I know, I'm just kidding. The latest rumor I've heard from my IU friends is Abell. That doesn't make sense either, who the hell is going to back up Yogi? My favorite idea is sending Jurkin to prep school because the scholarship situation really clears up after this year, lol.

 

Abell makes some sense from a basketball standpoint. As promising as he was last year, he really has no place on this year's team. He should only get spot minutes without injuries.

 

His junior and senior year he should get a decent amount of minutes as the backup point guard, but I could completely understand if he wants to transfer and go play 3 years somewhere else and get more minutes.

 

I'd have a harder time swallowing Etherington since he helped recruit players to Indiana, even though he'll certainly get more playing time somewhere else. Jurkin and Patterson it would depend more on why they weren't coming. If they suddenly decided to transfer, that would be almost certainly at Crean's pushing. If they didn't qualify, that's a different matter.

 

If Etherington transfers, I'm going to assume he was forced-out and the anti-IU people will be correct in their screaming.* I'm worried about Patterson, who I really like and want to keep, because I don't think he'll earn much, if any, playing time next year and I could see him becoming impatient and deciding to leave (without being forced out).

 

 

*I suppose there is some potential explanation that would not necessitate this response, but I would have to hear it from Etherington.

[SouthSideRyan]

Gary Harris is also an early entry candidate for IU

[illiniguy]

Gary Harris is also an early entry candidate for IU

What took you so long?

[snoodmonger]

Weber hired Chet Frazier as an assistant.

[sneakypower]

Updated 2013 Scout rankings are out:

 

35) PF Marc Loving OSU

48) PG Derrick Walton Michigan

49) SG/SF Kendall Stephens Purdue

50) SG Stanford Robinson Indiana

54) PG/SG Bryson Scott Purdue

67) SG Malcolm Hill Illinois

70) SF VJ Beachem Notre Dame

80) C Mark Donnal Michigan

94) C Luke Fischer Indiana

 

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2013

Updated 2013 ESPN rankings:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2013/order/true

 

38) PF Marc Loving OSU

39) PG Derrick Walton Michigan

60) SG Stanford Robinson Indiana

61) SG Zak Irvin Michigan

64) SG/SF Kendall Stephens Purdue

65) C Mark Donnal Michigan

66) SF VJ Beachem Notre Dame

70) PG/SG Bryson Scott Purdue

76) PG Bronson Koenig Wisconsin

82) SG Malcolm Hill Illinois

90) SF Brandon Austin Penn St

92) PF Luke Fischer Indiana

 

now that's more like it

[SouthSideRyan]

ESPN is terrible at recruiting rankings.

[Magnetic Curses]

yes, although they're getting better.

[sneakypower]

ESPN is terrible at recruiting rankings.

...well, unless they're the only data point to refute a team's class ranking as top-10

 

but they're actually aware of the existence of Zak Irvin, so that gives them the edge over Scout in my book

[Butterscup1679666578]

Coach Chew left Illinois for Marquette today? wtf?