Castro accused of sexual assault, no charges filed

[Guest]

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

 

Given the details that we do know, I don't think I would really care any more than if I found out that Ryan Dempster cheats on his taxes, or if Matt Garza punched a guy out in a barfight.

[manbearcub]

Yeah, having a star rapist is old hat for you Iowa fans. You're hardened.

Starlin wont be charged just like when that happened.

 

Because that's all that matters, amirite?

As far as I am concerned as a sports fan, yes.

 

Of course, I don't particularly care what White Sox or Cardinals fans think.

 

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

If you lined up every player in the major leagues and picked one at random, you'd have a better than 50/50 chance of picking a 'rapist' considering what we know so far.

[Tracer Bullet]

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

 

Slow down there champ. We're a helluva long way from rapist.

[XZero771679666304]

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

 

Slow down there champ. We're a helluva long way from rapist.

 

Notice I said wouldn't and might be. I obviously wasn't saying he's a rapist, if you actually read what I wrote.

 

All of this is conjecture at this point, I just thought the notion that a fan only cares about legal ramifications to be a bit callous, that's all.

[Tracer Bullet]

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

 

Slow down there champ. We're a helluva long way from rapist.

 

Notice I said wouldn't and might be. I obviously wasn't saying he's a rapist, if you actually read what I wrote.

 

All of this is conjecture at this point, I just thought the notion that a fan only cares about legal ramifications to be a bit callous, that's all.

 

I did read what you wrote. And we're a long way from rapist. Even if Castro is charged with something or even convicted of something, we're a long way from rape. So for a fan to take a wait and see approach before reacting seems reasonable.

[Rob]

Saw this response while lurking on Gateway Redbirds and I had to share it.

 

There's no way he could be guilty. He falls asleep between 2nd and 3rd base on a regular basis.

[treebird]

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

 

Slow down there champ. We're a helluva long way from rapist.

 

Notice I said wouldn't and might be. I obviously wasn't saying he's a rapist, if you actually read what I wrote.

 

All of this is conjecture at this point, I just thought the notion that a fan only cares about legal ramifications to be a bit callous, that's all.

 

I did read what you wrote. And we're a long way from rapist. Even if Castro is charged with something or even convicted of something, we're a long way from rape. So for a fan to take a wait and see approach before reacting seems reasonable.

 

?

 

what incorrect definition of rape are you using? how are we are long ways from rape? if he did what he has been accused of, he's a rapist.

[davearm2]

 

I did read what you wrote. And we're a long way from rapist. Even if Castro is charged with something or even convicted of something, we're a long way from rape. So for a fan to take a wait and see approach before reacting seems reasonable.

 

?

 

what incorrect definition of rape are you using? how are we are long ways from rape? if he did what he has been accused of, he's a rapist.

Sexual assault is much broader than rape. Grabbing someone's butt on the el is sexual assault.

 

I'm trying to process what it is that would possess a person to make moves on a passed out drunk person. WTF is up with that.

[Tracer Bullet]

I care what I think. You wouldn't care if the best player on your team might be a rapist? Really?

 

Slow down there champ. We're a helluva long way from rapist.

 

Notice I said wouldn't and might be. I obviously wasn't saying he's a rapist, if you actually read what I wrote.

 

All of this is conjecture at this point, I just thought the notion that a fan only cares about legal ramifications to be a bit callous, that's all.

 

I did read what you wrote. And we're a long way from rapist. Even if Castro is charged with something or even convicted of something, we're a long way from rape. So for a fan to take a wait and see approach before reacting seems reasonable.

 

?

 

what incorrect definition of rape are you using? how are we are long ways from rape? if he did what he has been accused of, he's a rapist.

 

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent). We're somewhere on the sexual assault spectrum. Where he falls between totally innocent and rape is far from known.

[glavine93]

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent).

 

the law doesn't distinguish much between using force and knowing someone can't consent:

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-13.html

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-15.html

(and this lesser charge is still a class 4 felony if she was passed out...)

[treebird]

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent). We're somewhere on the sexual assault spectrum. Where he falls between totally innocent and rape is far from known.

 

i don't want to argue about this or have a back and forth, but if he had sex with this person without her consent, he is a rapist (and a lot of other very bad things and i hope something terrible happens to him). i don't care about any spectrum or the use of force or any of that.

 

and yes, where he falls between totally innocent and rape is far from known, but this all started when you complained that someone said starlin "might be" a rapist. holy god do i ever hope he didn't do this, but there's not much reason to think you can say "oh, don't even say that he might be a rapist, there's no way that's true."

[ScrubMD]

Welp, barring a full retraction by the accuser or a complete discrediting, I'll never be able to be a real fan of our best player.

 

This may blow over legally, but it's still pretty [expletive] up.

 

It's only [expletive] up if he did something wrong.

 

One of three scenarios will come to pass:

 

1. Castro is guilty and is proven so

 

2. Castro is legally absolved because of lack of evidence or charges dropped and you have a Kobe/Ben situation where you live with the suspicion/stigma forever, right or wrong

 

3. The accuser retracts her accusation or is thoroughly discredited and Castro is vindicated

 

I think scenario two is by far the most likely and while better than the first, it's not entirely palatable.

 

I think you could easily find a scenario in between 2 and 3.

 

“I’ll do a Swedish accent.”

 

-“No, you do not do a Swedish accent, you don’t know how to do one. And you don’t need to — these people don’t know who you are!”

 

“I can’t just tell them we’re there to steal their artifact, Dennis!”

 

-“… There’s a huge amount of middle ground between those two things!” — Dennis

[Tracer Bullet]

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent). We're somewhere on the sexual assault spectrum. Where he falls between totally innocent and rape is far from known.

 

i don't want to argue about this or have a back and forth, but if he had sex with this person without her consent, he is a rapist (and a lot of other very bad things and i hope something terrible happens to him). i don't care about any spectrum or the use of force or any of that.

 

and yes, where he falls between totally innocent and rape is far from known, but this all started when you complained that someone said starlin "might be" a rapist. holy god do i ever hope he didn't do this, but there's not much reason to think you can say "oh, don't even say that he might be a rapist, there's no way that's true."

 

So 2 people are so trashed that they don't know what they're doing. They begin having sex, while neither loses consciousness, the woman doesn't remember part of the night...he's a rapist. Do I have that right?

 

Who knows. I suppose its possible that he's a sexual predator. Boy his personality doesn't seem to mesh with that, but it's possible. It's also possible this girl was drunk and woke up in the morning regretting having had sex with a baseball player. There's also a lot of other scenarios. I'm just not willing to go from here to alleged rapist yet, esp since the allegation isn't rape.

[Tracer Bullet]

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent).

 

the law doesn't distinguish much between using force and knowing someone can't consent:

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-13.html

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-15.html

(and this lesser charge is still a class 4 felony if she was passed out...)

 

Maybe you missed the part where I said I know drunk can't consent. But in the law you reference, 1 requires force or threatened force, 2 requires Castro to know that the victim couldn't consent. If he's so drunk, he doesn't remember much of the evening either, what did he know?

 

Hey the law can be pretty strict on this point and maybe it should be. But I've struggled with 2 totally smashed people having sex and the guy being a rapist. Maybe I'm alone in that. Maybe every guy here that's had sex with a drunk woman is comfortable in the knowledge that he's a rapist. I doubt that though.

 

I have a hard time believing he gets charged with something unless he was pretty sober or there was force involved. Anything else and this looks a lot more like a mutual mistake than a crime.

[XZero771679666304]

Acting indignant that someone says Starlin might be a rapist is pretty strange, regardless of how unpalatable is sounds, or whether the events described so far fit your definition of what rape is. Why? Because Castro might be a rapist.

 

I want that not to be the case as much as anyone, but given the nature of the accusations that possibility is clearly in play.

[Tracer Bullet]

Acting indignant that someone says Starlin might be a rapist is pretty strange, regardless of how unpalatable is sounds, or whether the events described so far fit your definition of what rape is. Why? Because Castro might be a rapist.

 

I want that not to be the case as much as anyone, but given the nature of the accusations that possibility is clearly in play.

 

I don't think my response is strange. I think jumping from what we know to saying Castro might be a rapist (as opposed to any other player might be a rapist) is strange.

 

He might be a rapist. You might be a rapist too. So might I (well, I'm obviously not bc I know I'm not but you get the point). I tend to agree with mbc that the chance that Castro is a rapist is not significantly higher based on what we know today v what we knew yesterday.

 

Look, if this girl passed out and he was relatively sober and had sex with her or if he threatened or used force than he's a despicable human being and I hope he's jailed for the better part of his life (which won't happen). But I'd also say that if Castro is a mass murderer, he should be jailed forever and I'm not sure the likelihood of him being the former is that much higher than of him being the latter, at least until we know a hell of a lot more than we do.

[Tracer Bullet]

but this all started when you complained that someone said starlin "might be" a rapist. holy god do i ever hope he didn't do this, but there's not much reason to think you can say "oh, don't even say that he might be a rapist, there's no way that's true."

 

Just to address this. I'm not saying there's no way it's true. I'm saying it's too early to put the "might be a rapist" tag on. We could change your name to Might Be A Rapist and that would be about as appropriate. We have one small slice of one side of a story from 4 months ago. And what we have isn't even enough to know whether they had sex or if they both passed out and she woke up with his hand on her boob.

[XZero771679666304]

Acting indignant that someone says Starlin might be a rapist is pretty strange, regardless of how unpalatable is sounds, or whether the events described so far fit your definition of what rape is. Why? Because Castro might be a rapist.

 

I want that not to be the case as much as anyone, but given the nature of the accusations that possibility is clearly in play.

 

I don't think my response is strange. I think jumping from what we know to saying Castro might be a rapist (as opposed to any other player might be a rapist) is strange.

 

He might be a rapist. You might be a rapist too. So might I (well, I'm obviously not bc I know I'm not but you get the point). I tend to agree with mbc that the chance that Castro is a rapist is not significantly higher based on what we know today v what we knew yesterday.

 

Look, if this girl passed out and he was relatively sober and had sex with her or if he threatened or used force than he's a despicable human being and I hope he's jailed for the better part of his life (which won't happen). But I'd also say that if Castro is a mass murderer, he should be jailed forever and I'm not sure the likelihood of him being the former is that much higher than of him being the latter, at least until we know a hell of a lot more than we do.

 

Wow.

 

If he had sex with her knowing she didn't consent, he's a rapist. It seems that MAY be the case, as he's been accused of sexual assault and the circumstances suggest that MIGHT be the case.

 

I'm fairly certain he's never been accused of mass murder or connected to homicides, and I sure as [expletive] haven't been accused of sexual assault.

 

You're acting like as if the mere mention of the word rape is egregiously out of line. I think you'll find yourself in very limited company on that front, and not because everyone else is being rash.

[glavine93]

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent).

 

the law doesn't distinguish much between using force and knowing someone can't consent:

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-13.html

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-15.html

(and this lesser charge is still a class 4 felony if she was passed out...)

 

Maybe you missed the part where I said I know drunk can't consent. But in the law you reference, 1 requires force or threatened force, 2 requires Castro to know that the victim couldn't consent. If he's so drunk, he doesn't remember much of the evening either, what did he know?

 

Hey the law can be pretty strict on this point and maybe it should be. But I've struggled with 2 totally smashed people having sex and the guy being a rapist. Maybe I'm alone in that. Maybe every guy here that's had sex with a drunk woman is comfortable in the knowledge that he's a rapist. I doubt that though.

 

I have a hard time believing he gets charged with something unless he was pretty sober or there was force involved. Anything else and this looks a lot more like a mutual mistake than a crime.

 

i didn’t miss anything, but (despite your parenthetical) you said “I don't recall seeing anything about force” as if this is somehow determinative of whether we're a "long way" from rape. my point is that if he did understand that she was passed out, it’s treated the same as if he had used force.

 

yes, maybe she had magical powers that made her act totally normal while blacked out. or maybe he was ridiculously, ridiculously drunk and somehow couldn’t tell that she was as well. but i think there is maybe an even greater likelihood that he was coherent enough to tell whether she was in a state to consent. if so, he committed a serious crime (and from what you have posted, I think you agree on this). i hope he didn’t, but it’s not like it's some crazy notion.

[Tracer Bullet]

See, I think this all started when you said this.

 

Welp, barring a full retraction by the accuser or a complete discrediting, I'll never be able to be a real fan of our best player.

 

This may blow over legally, but it's still pretty [expletive] up.

 

And then were indignant that mbc (maybe others) didn't share your strange view. I don't view Castro any differently today than I did yesterday. Those 3 paragraphs aren't enough to sway my opinion yet.

 

And saying some public figure might be a rapist is a pretty powerful statement. I don't think I'm in the minority there at all.

[Tracer Bullet]

What exactly is he being accused of? The story I read was they were drunk together, the girl allegedly blacked out, came to early in the morning while they were having sex, objected and left. I don't recall seeing anything about force (and yes, I'm aware that drunk can't consent).

 

the law doesn't distinguish much between using force and knowing someone can't consent:

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-13.html

 

http://law.onecle.com/illinois/720ilcs5/12-15.html

(and this lesser charge is still a class 4 felony if she was passed out...)

 

Maybe you missed the part where I said I know drunk can't consent. But in the law you reference, 1 requires force or threatened force, 2 requires Castro to know that the victim couldn't consent. If he's so drunk, he doesn't remember much of the evening either, what did he know?

 

Hey the law can be pretty strict on this point and maybe it should be. But I've struggled with 2 totally smashed people having sex and the guy being a rapist. Maybe I'm alone in that. Maybe every guy here that's had sex with a drunk woman is comfortable in the knowledge that he's a rapist. I doubt that though.

 

I have a hard time believing he gets charged with something unless he was pretty sober or there was force involved. Anything else and this looks a lot more like a mutual mistake than a crime.

 

i didn’t miss anything, but (despite your parenthetical) you said “I don't recall seeing anything about force” as if this is somehow determinative of whether we're a "long way" from rape. my point is that if he did understand that she was passed out, it’s treated the same as if he had used force.

 

yes, maybe she had magical powers that made her act totally normal while blacked out. or maybe he was ridiculously, ridiculously drunk and somehow couldn’t tell that she was as well. but i think there is maybe an even greater likelihood that he was coherent enough to tell whether she was in a state to consent. if so, he committed a serious crime (and from what you have posted, I think you agree on this). i hope he didn’t, but it’s not like it's some crazy notion.

 

Lack of force + lack of knowledge about how coherent he was + lack of knowledge about what activities they were engaged in + lack of knowledge of whether she was passed out during activities or just forgot some events = a long way from rape. I didn't imply in any way that lack of force alone is determinative of rape. Nor have I implied that rape isn't a possibility.

 

What's the bold based on?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think what MR is trying to state is that we don't have enough information to say whether or not he's a rapist. Until the exact details of what she's accusing him of come out, we really don't know.

 

What we do know is that she was very drunk, awoke and believed she was being assaulted, left, and filed a report some hours later.

 

What we don't know is exactly what Starlin was doing when she woke up, what condition he was in, etc.

 

I do not argue that if he was aware she could not consent and had sex with her any way, he's despicable and that according to the statutes is guilty of rape. I doubt that he would be prosecuted, but that is the case.

 

However, in a case like this, at least from my limited perspective, the devil may be in the details.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

One thing I don't get is that the police were notified of this in September. The stories say Castro left the next day for the Dominican.

 

But Castro was back in Chicago for a time in November, meeting with Theo and appearing at a card show to sign autographs in Rosemont.

 

If they thought Castro had raped someone, etc., wouldn't they have arrested him then or at least brought him in for questioning?

[Tracer Bullet]

You'd like to think that if the accusation was credible they would have at least questioned him then. I can't believe they wouldn't know when he was back in the US if they wanted to.

 

Of course, the Chicago PD doesn't have the most glowing reputation, so the failure to act quickly doesn't totally eliminate the possibility that this is credible.

[ConstableRabbit]

You'd like to think that if the accusation was credible they would have at least questioned him then. I can't believe they wouldn't know when he was back in the US if they wanted to.

 

Of course, the Chicago PD doesn't have the most glowing reputation, so the failure to act quickly doesn't totally eliminate the possibility that this is credible.

2 words: hush money.