Chicago Bears Offseason 2012

[rawaction]

I'm not that hot on getting rid of Barber, he wasnt that bad aside form the Denver game where he made bad mental mistakes.

 

but why worry about sitting a rb? they generally can do well as rookies.

 

Barber is making almost 2 Mil next year. I'd rather use that money elsewhere.

[minnesotacubsfan]

what would you want to spend on a second rb? and who?

[minnesotacubsfan]

what would you want to spend on a second rb? and who?

 

 

eta: Kahlil Bell? I'd feel more comfortable with him if he didnt have a habit of fumbling so much. he was dogged by that in college, and it seems that hasnt changed

[rawaction]

A couple of reasons I want Forte to get a longterm deal: 1) he deserves it 2) he's very well liked in the lockerroom and I don't want it becoming a distraction of any kind 3) if you franchise him, it eats up a lot more cap room than if you give him a longterm deal

 

I don't really care about the notion that he deserves it. It's a salary cap world and teams pay for the mistakes they make in handing out too much money for past performance. I don't care about the supposed lockerroom talk, that's Lovie's area and he handles it well. The Bears have had Briggs, Urlacher, Forte and others talking about holdouts and contracts for the better part of a decade and it's not the distraction people portray it as. And a franchise tag eats up cap space in one year, a longterm extension can easily eat up a lot more dead space in the 2 years it takes you to realize a guy has lost it and then cut him.

 

Exactly. It sucks for Forte, and I love the guy....but he has every sign of flaming out during his next contract. Franchising him and letting him walk may be the best for the team and maybe for him. He'll earn more money in 1 year than he will in any other 1 year for the rest of his career. And he'll probably get more from another team than he would from the Bears.

[rawaction]

what would you want to spend on a second rb? and who?

 

 

eta: Kahlil Bell? I'd feel more comfortable with him if he didnt have a habit of fumbling so much. he was dogged by that in college, and it seems that hasnt changed

 

Yes, but fumbling is correctable. And I think his fumbles stick out because they all occured within 3 quarters. Those are the only 3 fumbles he has though. RBs are a dime a dozen. I just think there are better uses of money than spending 8Mil on Forte, almost 2 Mil on Barber, and near 1Mil on Bell. Barber's money becomes more of a waste when you remember that he missed several games with injuries this year, missed several games due to injury in his career, and runs with a style conducive to causing injury.

[minnesotacubsfan]

if we're dumping Barber, I'd rather have a faster smaller back to compliment Forte. Bell is just a slower Forte, imo.

 

and as far as correcting fumbling, I've never been convinced of this. It seems like that gets said alot, but its purely a mental block some rb's have. They just tend to get away from fundamentals, ie handling the football. I dont want to wait forever for Bell to figure that out.

[jersey cubs fan]

if we're dumping Barber, I'd rather have a faster smaller back to compliment Forte. Bell is just a slower Forte, imo.

 

and as far as correcting fumbling, I've never been convinced of this. It seems like that gets said alot, but its purely a mental block some rb's have. They just tend to get away from fundamentals, ie handling the football. I dont want to wait forever for Bell to figure that out.

 

You don't wait. If it doesn't get fixed you bring in the next body, because there is always another body to bring in at the RB position.

[davell]

A couple of reasons I want Forte to get a longterm deal: 1) he deserves it 2) he's very well liked in the lockerroom and I don't want it becoming a distraction of any kind 3) if you franchise him, it eats up a lot more cap room than if you give him a longterm deal

 

I don't really care about the notion that he deserves it. It's a salary cap world and teams pay for the mistakes they make in handing out too much money for past performance. I don't care about the supposed lockerroom talk, that's Lovie's area and he handles it well. The Bears have had Briggs, Urlacher, Forte and others talking about holdouts and contracts for the better part of a decade and it's not the distraction people portray it as. And a franchise tag eats up cap space in one year, a longterm extension can easily eat up a lot more dead space in the 2 years it takes you to realize a guy has lost it and then cut him.

 

Exactly. It sucks for Forte, and I love the guy....but he has every sign of flaming out during his next contract. Franchising him and letting him walk may be the best for the team and maybe for him. He'll earn more money in 1 year than he will in any other 1 year for the rest of his career. And he'll probably get more from another team than he would from the Bears.

I hate to say this, but I think we've probably got a 1 or 2 year window to truly take advantage of our defense. To me, the extra 7-8 mill of cap space you have by extending Forte is much more important than his cap number in year 3 or 4 of this deal. Because I expect us to be slightly down at that time. On the other hand, with the cap space we currently have, we could build a true SB contender next year for a 1 or 2 year run, provided we draft halfway decently as well. If not for this, I would agree that franchising him is the best thing to do. That said, I'm not saying give him Chris Johnson money either. Give him a 3-4 year extension. If it's more than that, the only way I'd condone it is if the cap hit isn't much when he's likely cut during year 4 anyway.

[jersey cubs fan]

A couple of reasons I want Forte to get a longterm deal: 1) he deserves it 2) he's very well liked in the lockerroom and I don't want it becoming a distraction of any kind 3) if you franchise him, it eats up a lot more cap room than if you give him a longterm deal

 

I don't really care about the notion that he deserves it. It's a salary cap world and teams pay for the mistakes they make in handing out too much money for past performance. I don't care about the supposed lockerroom talk, that's Lovie's area and he handles it well. The Bears have had Briggs, Urlacher, Forte and others talking about holdouts and contracts for the better part of a decade and it's not the distraction people portray it as. And a franchise tag eats up cap space in one year, a longterm extension can easily eat up a lot more dead space in the 2 years it takes you to realize a guy has lost it and then cut him.

 

Exactly. It sucks for Forte, and I love the guy....but he has every sign of flaming out during his next contract. Franchising him and letting him walk may be the best for the team and maybe for him. He'll earn more money in 1 year than he will in any other 1 year for the rest of his career. And he'll probably get more from another team than he would from the Bears.

I hate to say this, but I think we've probably got a 1 or 2 year window to truly take advantage of our defense. To me, the extra 7-8 mill of cap space you have by extending Forte is much more important than his cap number in year 3 or 4 of this deal. Because I expect us to be slightly down at that time. On the other hand, with the cap space we currently have, we could build a true SB contender next year for a 1 or 2 year run, provided we draft halfway decently as well. If not for this, I would agree that franchising him is the best thing to do. That said, I'm not saying give him Chris Johnson money either. Give him a 3-4 year extension. If it's more than that, the only way I'd condone it is if the cap hit isn't much when he's likely cut during year 4 anyway.

 

He wants Chris Johnson money. The Bears offered a hefty extension, but he's not interested in that. Regardless, there's no benefit to giving him a 3-4 year extension at big money. If he signs an extension this will probably be his last contract, and you should make it as long as possible.

 

That said, the goal should be to transform from a team that occasionally contends thanks to a defense that steps up into a team that wins every year thanks to their QB. QBs determine consistent winners. If the defense has a 2 year window then the offense better be top notch before that window closes.

[minnesotacubsfan]

yea, defensive players are easier to replace (aside form all-star CB's) then QB's. I love Urlacher, Peppers, Briggs, but we can continue with out them too.

[davell]

A couple of reasons I want Forte to get a longterm deal: 1) he deserves it 2) he's very well liked in the lockerroom and I don't want it becoming a distraction of any kind 3) if you franchise him, it eats up a lot more cap room than if you give him a longterm deal

 

I don't really care about the notion that he deserves it. It's a salary cap world and teams pay for the mistakes they make in handing out too much money for past performance. I don't care about the supposed lockerroom talk, that's Lovie's area and he handles it well. The Bears have had Briggs, Urlacher, Forte and others talking about holdouts and contracts for the better part of a decade and it's not the distraction people portray it as. And a franchise tag eats up cap space in one year, a longterm extension can easily eat up a lot more dead space in the 2 years it takes you to realize a guy has lost it and then cut him.

 

Exactly. It sucks for Forte, and I love the guy....but he has every sign of flaming out during his next contract. Franchising him and letting him walk may be the best for the team and maybe for him. He'll earn more money in 1 year than he will in any other 1 year for the rest of his career. And he'll probably get more from another team than he would from the Bears.

I hate to say this, but I think we've probably got a 1 or 2 year window to truly take advantage of our defense. To me, the extra 7-8 mill of cap space you have by extending Forte is much more important than his cap number in year 3 or 4 of this deal. Because I expect us to be slightly down at that time. On the other hand, with the cap space we currently have, we could build a true SB contender next year for a 1 or 2 year run, provided we draft halfway decently as well. If not for this, I would agree that franchising him is the best thing to do. That said, I'm not saying give him Chris Johnson money either. Give him a 3-4 year extension. If it's more than that, the only way I'd condone it is if the cap hit isn't much when he's likely cut during year 4 anyway.

 

He wants Chris Johnson money. The Bears offered a hefty extension, but he's not interested in that. Regardless, there's no benefit to giving him a 3-4 year extension at big money. If he signs an extension this will probably be his last contract, and you should make it as long as possible.

 

That said, the goal should be to transform from a team that occasionally contends thanks to a defense that steps up into a team that wins every year thanks to their QB. QBs determine consistent winners. If the defense has a 2 year window then the offense better be top notch before that window closes.

Hey, can't argue with anything you said there. Didn't realize he wanted CJ money either. Hell, part of me wonders now what kind of trade value he's got?

[minnesotacubsfan]

non unless we franchise or sign him

[Banedon]

non unless we franchise or sign him

 

I think it's safe to assume they'll franchise him.

[davell]

non unless we franchise or sign him

That's what I meant. If we DO franchise him, would a team be willing to give us at least a 1st for him? He's one of the best backs in the league, but RB's have become less valuable than ever.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I doubt we would get a 1st rd, maybe 2nd or (2) 2nd's. I cant remember the last draft pick for RB trade in the NFL, tho.

[UMFan83]

I doubt we would get a 1st rd, maybe 2nd or (2) 2nd's. I cant remember the last draft pick for RB trade in the NFL, tho.

 

Obviously not the most recent but I'd like to get a Herschel Walker return for Forte :)

 

Edit: I'd settle for a Ricky Williams like trade too

[jersey cubs fan]

I doubt we would get a 1st rd, maybe 2nd or (2) 2nd's. I cant remember the last draft pick for RB trade in the NFL, tho.

 

Obviously not the most recent but I'd like to get a Herschel Walker return for Forte :)

 

Edit: I'd settle for a Ricky Williams like trade too

 

Ricky was a decade ago. Marshawn Lynch was recently dealt for very little. Reggie Bush netted next to nothing. The Chargers tried to trade Turner but he left via free agency. I can't think of any meaningful RB trade in recent memory.

[CubColtPacer]

I doubt we would get a 1st rd, maybe 2nd or (2) 2nd's. I cant remember the last draft pick for RB trade in the NFL, tho.

 

Obviously not the most recent but I'd like to get a Herschel Walker return for Forte :)

 

Edit: I'd settle for a Ricky Williams like trade too

 

Ricky was a decade ago. Marshawn Lynch was recently dealt for very little. Reggie Bush netted next to nothing. The Chargers tried to trade Turner but he left via free agency. I can't think of any meaningful RB trade in recent memory.

 

The Colts traded Marshall Faulk in this type of situation and only got a 2nd and a 5th (although apparently the Dolphins offered a 1st and was turned down because the team wanted him traded to the NFC). That was also over a decade ago. It's very unusual for a star runningback to be traded because of money though so as you said there aren't many data points to consider.

[rawaction]

I doubt we would get a 1st rd, maybe 2nd or (2) 2nd's. I cant remember the last draft pick for RB trade in the NFL, tho.

 

Obviously not the most recent but I'd like to get a Herschel Walker return for Forte :)

 

Edit: I'd settle for a Ricky Williams like trade too

 

Ricky was a decade ago. Marshawn Lynch was recently dealt for very little. Reggie Bush netted next to nothing. The Chargers tried to trade Turner but he left via free agency. I can't think of any meaningful RB trade in recent memory.

 

Forte is better than Lynch, Bush, and Turner were at the times they were traded/attempted to be traded. But yeah, it's not happening.

[Magnetic Curses]

it doesn't matter what the recent precedent is, if a team really wants him, they will offer what it takes to get him. we hold the cards.

[davell]

By the way, here's the list of FA WR's that are at least interesting.

 

 

 

Mike Wallace

Dwayne Bowe

Vincent Jackson

Wes Welker

Stevie Johnson

Brandon Lloyd

Marques Colston

Desean Jackson

Mario Manningham

Reggie Wayne

Pierre Garcon

Laurent Robinson

 

Wallace ain't going anywhere. I figure KC franchises Bowe. Walterfootball says right now it appears as if SD keeps V-Jax. My honest guess is the Pats let Welker walk. He'll command a bigtime deal from someone and he's 31. I figure Stevie hits the open market. Lloyd has said he's following Josh McDaniels, so my guess is he's Welker's cheaper replacement? Colston will hit the open market, but is he just a system guy? I could see him taking less just to stick with Brees. They're saying the right things as far as keeping Desean in Philly too, but I think he'll at least see the open market. Manningham? I kind of like him actually. i don't think they'll be able to afford him, so he'll be available. Not sure I like him as a #1, but he'd definitely be the best guy we've got by a mile. Pairing him up with Finley could be devastating. Wayne is too old, but will probably be who we go after. Garcon hasn't done enough to make me think he can be a #1, so I'm out on him. Laurent Robinson? Nah, maybe as 2nd guy.

 

 

If all were available,(not counting Wallace) my order of preference is

 

Bowe

V-Jax

Johnson

Manningham

Desean

Welker

Colston

Lloyd

Wayne

Garcon

Robinson

 

But, for me, there's a dropoff after V-Jax, another after Desean, and another after Colston. Anyone else, I'd rather spend a 1st/2nd rounder on than pay them.

[jersey cubs fan]

it doesn't matter what the recent precedent is, if a team really wants him, they will offer what it takes to get him. we hold the cards.

 

Recent precedent doesn't determine final price but it's a really strong indication that nobody should be expecting anything resembling a blockbuster. My guess is you might be able to get something like a decent WR and a 2nd or 3rd rounder, but a 1st, or a 1st and more is probably out of the question.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-ruskell-makes-his-case-for-bears-gm-job-20120119,0,478849.story

 

Today the Bears interviewed Karl Rove for their GM position.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2012-01/177016520-19135456.jpg

[minnesotacubsfan]

By the way, here's ...........than pay them.

 

I'd take Colston if he was available. He's been very consistent and productive albeit in a heavy pass-friendly offense.

 

one season under 1k yards, a season he was hurt IIRC, adn good TD #'s:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/marquescolston/2495821/profile

[minnesotacubsfan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-ruskell-makes-his-case-for-bears-gm-job-20120119,0,478849.story

 

Today the Bears interviewed Karl Rove for their GM position.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2012-01/177016520-19135456.jpg

 

great, who will we invade first?