Coco Crisp

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

I just think that teams like the A's should first try to sort out what they already have and then spend money to fill holes. Coco Crisp isn't as God awful as some made him out to be when we were supposedly interested in him, but at the same time he's not a guy that's going to help the A's be better than they are. As is, they'll have trouble contending with the Mariners and Coco Crisp isn't going to change that.

[JoshiQ]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

I don't know how spending 10% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years put up an OPS+ over 100 can be considered a smart move.

[JoshiQ]

I don't think Coco is a horrible player, but I also think it would be better to save that 14 million and use it when your good players hit arbitration instead of having to trade them away every single year.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

I don't know how spending 10% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years put up an OPS+ over 100 can be considered a smart move.

 

because ops+ isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

[JoshiQ]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

I don't know how spending 10% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years put up an OPS+ over 100 can be considered a smart move.

 

because ops+ isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

 

Sure isn't the worst thing to have a high number in either.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

I just think that teams like the A's should first try to sort out what they already have and then spend money to fill holes. Coco Crisp isn't as God awful as some made him out to be when we were supposedly interested in him, but at the same time he's not a guy that's going to help the A's be better than they are. As is, they'll have trouble contending with the Mariners and Coco Crisp isn't going to change that.

 

they have no outfielders so they spent money to fill a hole in centerfield. seriously, their outfield options before this signing was brandon allen, colin cowgill, michael taylor and josh reddick, none of whom has established himself as a capable major league player. the options were to stick with an outfield of kids and force them to play every day even if they struggle, call up another kid who's not ready from AAA (or some worthless AAAA roster fill), or sign a veteran outfielder. crisp has a reasonable contract and a skill set (defense, speed) that could be valued at the trade deadline. oakland aren't going to be players for the prince fielders of the world, but it's ludicrous to protest every time they sign a veteran because he won't "help them be better than they are." they're not going to have a payroll of $15 million for fucks sake.

[Rob]

I don't know how spending 10% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years put up an OPS+ over 100 can be considered a smart move.

 

because ops+ isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

 

Sure isn't the worst thing to have a high number in either.

 

LETS FRAME THIS A DIFFERENT WAY!!!

 

I don't know how spending ~15~20% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years had a positive UZR rating can be considered a smart move.

 

because UZR isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

 

Sure isn't the worst thing to have a high number in either.

 

YOU JUST HELPED ME PROVE WE SHOULDN'T SIGN PRINCE FIELDER.

[TruffleShuffle]

because ops+ isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

 

Sure isn't the worst thing to have a high number in either.

 

so if they'd signed josh willingham to a few million a year would that have been ok? after all he's a consistent 120 ops+ guy.

 

side note: he and crisp are about equally valuable.

[JoshiQ]

I don't know how spending 10% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years put up an OPS+ over 100 can be considered a smart move.

 

because ops+ isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

 

Sure isn't the worst thing to have a high number in either.

 

LETS FRAME THIS A DIFFERENT WAY!!!

 

I don't know how spending ~15~20% of your payroll on a guy who has only once in the past six years had a positive UZR rating can be considered a smart move.

 

because UZR isn't the sum total of a baseball player's skills?

 

Sure isn't the worst thing to have a high number in either.

 

YOU JUST HELPED ME PROVE WE SHOULDN'T SIGN PRINCE FIELDER.

 

Two things:

 

1) The Cubs aren't a small market team.

 

2) UZR is not as important as OPS+, especially in a 1B.

 

Edit: Probably should say that Cubs don't play with the same payroll as a small market team.

Edited January 3, 2012 by JoshiQ

[TruffleShuffle]

you're acting like the a's are a no-market team.

[JoshiQ]

you're acting like the a's are a no-market team.

 

Yeah, edited that. The A's play with the payroll of a small market team.

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

Oakland sure seems to be operating under this logic when they trade all their good cheap players for prospects every offseason

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't know, it is a lot of money for a team with no chance of going anywhere in the next 2 years to spend on a guy like Coco Crisp. They got a very nice haul from Gio and Cahill but I don't think those guys will make the A's a winner in the next 2 years, especially when competing against the AL champs who havnt gotten any worse and a team that just signed Albert Pujols and added CJ Wilson to Jared Weaver, Dan Haren and Ervin Santana.

 

by this logic no small market team with no hope of contending this year should ever spend money on a veteran and should aim to have a major league payroll of like $10 million.

 

Oakland sure seems to be operating under this logic when they trade all their good cheap players for prospects every offseason

 

i'd argue they're trading overvalued assets. they got a hell of a haul for gio gonzalez and i like what they got for cahill considering that he's going to become more expensive soon and his numbers have been fueled by BABIP flukes and pitching in a cavernous home park.

[Rob]

Two things:

 

1) The Cubs aren't a small market team.

 

2) UZR is not as important as OPS+, especially in a 1B.

 

Edit: Probably should say that Cubs don't play with the same payroll as a small market team.

 

So you fully admit that you're looking for different things from different positions, and yet you're judging a CF solely based upon his bat?

[JoshiQ]

Two things:

 

1) The Cubs aren't a small market team.

 

2) UZR is not as important as OPS+, especially in a 1B.

 

Edit: Probably should say that Cubs don't play with the same payroll as a small market team.

 

So you fully admit that you're looking for different things from different positions, and yet you're judging a CF solely based upon his bat?

 

Where did I say I was judging solely on his bat?

[Rob]

Two things:

 

1) The Cubs aren't a small market team.

 

2) UZR is not as important as OPS+, especially in a 1B.

 

Edit: Probably should say that Cubs don't play with the same payroll as a small market team.

 

So you fully admit that you're looking for different things from different positions, and yet you're judging a CF solely based upon his bat?

 

Where did I say I was judging solely on his bat?

 

I'm sorry, where did you acknowledge the importance of anything besides OPS+?

[TruffleShuffle]

I just think that teams like the A's should first try to sort out what they already have and then spend money to fill holes. Coco Crisp isn't as God awful as some made him out to be when we were supposedly interested in him, but at the same time he's not a guy that's going to help the A's be better than they are. As is, they'll have trouble contending with the Mariners and Coco Crisp isn't going to change that.

 

to put this another way, the cubs certainly look to be a few steps behind the cards, brewers and reds this year and are quite unlikely to contend. should they just give away byrd, dempster and zambrano for whatever they can get, even if it means eating a bunch of salary? after all, those three aren't going to push the cubs into the top tier of the division, so isn't that just a waste of money?

[JoshiQ]

Two things:

 

1) The Cubs aren't a small market team.

 

2) UZR is not as important as OPS+, especially in a 1B.

 

Edit: Probably should say that Cubs don't play with the same payroll as a small market team.

 

So you fully admit that you're looking for different things from different positions, and yet you're judging a CF solely based upon his bat?

 

Where did I say I was judging solely on his bat?

 

I'm sorry, where did you acknowledge the importance of anything besides OPS+?

 

I didn't realize I needed to make a list of everything important in a player.

 

Let me say it again.

 

Coco Crisp is not a bad player. Coco Crisp is probably not the best way for the A's to be spending their money when they constantly have to trade away their good players since they have no money. If the Cubs had signed Crisp to this same contract I would not have hated it (wouldn't have made any sense if they still had DeJesus and Byrd on the roster, however).

[Rob]

 

I didn't realize I needed to make a list of everything important in a player.

 

Let me say it again.

 

Coco Crisp is not a bad player. Coco Crisp is probably not the best way for the A's to be spending their money when they constantly have to trade away their good players since they have no money. If the Cubs had signed Crisp to this same contract I would not have hated it (wouldn't have made any sense if they still had DeJesus and Byrd on the roster, however).

 

That's a much better post than some irrelevant tangent about OPS+. Thank you.

[TruffleShuffle]

i really don't think the a's traded away gonzalez and cahill because they're broke.

[davearm2]

to put this another way, the cubs certainly look to be a few steps behind the cards, brewers and reds this year and are quite unlikely to contend. should they just give away byrd, dempster and zambrano for whatever they can get, even if it means eating a bunch of salary? after all, those three aren't going to push the cubs into the top tier of the division, so isn't that just a waste of money?

The Cubs absolutely should trade the guys you mentioned, if they can get back player(s) that can contribute on the bigleague club beyond 2012. If they have to eat money to get that return, so be it. But it's not a money issue. It's a "these guys aren't going to help us at all in the future, and they're not going to help us enough to matter in the present" issue.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's different than "whatever they can get," which is what Truffle said.

[davearm2]

That's different than "whatever they can get," which is what Truffle said.

"Whatever they can get" is ambiguous. So I clarified what it should take to deal these guys.

[Guest]

Crisp is now the highest paid player on the A's. Moreso than any other franchise it seems, they need to get final word about their stadium fate so they can be moved, contracted, whatever. Because they are just aimless right now.

[Sammy Sofa]

You completely missed the point of Truffle's post.