Trading Soriano

[mul21]

He can barely run around the bases on all the HRs he's hitting.

 

It's amazing that in spite of his knee his defense has been as improved as it (seemingly) is this year.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If Sorianos knee was really that much of an issue right now, I doubt he'd still be playing regularly. It's not like we're in the heat of a pennant race here.

[Guest]

If Sorianos knee was really that much of an issue right now, I doubt he'd still be playing regularly. It's not like we're in the heat of a pennant race here.

 

Have you watched games or what?

[davell]

I don't think there's any chance in hell he'd pass a physical, in order to be traded. Brett mentioned it's up to the acquiring teams discretion though, so I guess it's possible to find a taker out there.

[TheDude]

Wouldn't the acquiring team presumably be looking at him as a DH anyway? I can't see any NL teams being front-runners for him.

[RynoRules]

Wouldn't the acquiring team presumably be looking at him as a DH anyway? I can't see any NL teams being front-runners for him.

 

Perhaps last night helps the argument that he's a viable DH. Soriano has some very legit value to an AL team in the post-steroid era.

[Post Count Padder]

If a team feels his leg injury won't be a problem strictly as a DH and we could pick up most of his salary, I'd think someone should be interested. Over the last month, Soriano is batting .290/.355/.680/1.035 for the 10th highest OPS in MLB in that span and also tied for the most HR (11) in that span.

[davell]

In a run depressed environment like it is, I could see a team giving up a top 20ish guy from their system, or perhaps a pair of top 30 guys, for Soriano, if we actually eat the 90% figure that's been mentioned before.

[Backtobanks]

In a run depressed environment like it is, I could see a team giving up a top 20ish guy from their system, or perhaps a pair of top 30 guys, for Soriano, if we actually eat the 90% figure that's been mentioned before.

 

I think you're dreaming. Theo will be lucky to get much of anything for Soriano. All it takes is for Soriano to fall out of his hot streak or hurt his knee more to make him untradable and then the Cubs will be stuck with the rest of his contract.

[CubColtPacer]

In a run depressed environment like it is, I could see a team giving up a top 20ish guy from their system, or perhaps a pair of top 30 guys, for Soriano, if we actually eat the 90% figure that's been mentioned before.

 

I think you're dreaming. Theo would probably give Soriano away free for someone willing to take him and 10% of his salary.

 

I hope he doesn't at this point (unless they decide they badly need the roster space). That would make Soriano worth approximately 1.5-2 million per year. It's quite possible that no team will never offer more than that, but I'd take the risk rather than guarantee 4-5 million coming back. If nothing else, the Cubs could probably get 4-5 million worth of value over the next 2+ years even if they move him to the bench.

 

If a team offered much more than that though (10 million or so total) then I'd have to jump on that because the risk/reward changes dramatically at that point.

[davell]

Bats probably available at the deadline: Carlos Quentin, Seth Smith, Marco Scutaro, Carlos Lee, Justin Morneau, Denard Span, Josh Willingham, and Ryan Doumit. And at this point, I could even see Minnesota holding tight. To me, counting Minnesota, thete's 7 teams that are sellers. Not everyone else is buying, but it sets up very well for us to get at least a borderline decent return for Soriano, because there's just not that much that's going to be out there.

[rawaction]

I could see the Cubs getting a borderline top 30 prospect or even 2 for Soriano and 10% of his salary. No matter how you slice it, that's a steal. Soriano's legs are shot, but he can still hit and even shown he can play the field if a team so chooses. Tampa is only getting a .650 OPS from their DH position. Detroit's DH position has been a disaster with a .604 OPS. The following contenders are also getting OPS's under .700 from their LF position: Washington, Cleveland, Pittsburgh (yeah all these teams are all actually either in 1st or within a game of it), Yankees, Toronto, Cincinnati, Baltimore. The Mets, Marlins, and both LA teams are barely over .700. If the available bats are as bad as they look to be, I don't see why the Cubs couldn't get an arm who was at one point highly thought of who hasn't been able to put it together and is running out of time til he becomes a minor league FA (maybe like a Brett Wallach type from the Lilly/Theriot trade) along with a random middle IF or relief prospect, as another warm body in the upper minors.

 

As an aside, if the Cubs can't find a taker for Soriano, and it's pretty clear that if he's on the Cubs, he should be in the lineup......then why not move DeJesus to CF (where offense has been crap at the position), put LaHair in RF and bring Rizzo up for 1B. Defense be damned at this point.

[Guest]

If Soriano's performance change is really due to going to a lighter bat, then:

 

1) I'm pissed that he was too stubborn to make the change before now

2) he could have significant value for a contender

 

His slash line is currently around 0.3053/0.3592/0.7474 since the change.

[Exile on Waveland]

All it takes is for Soriano to . . . hurt his knee more to make him untradable and then the Cubs will be stuck with the rest of his contract.

 

Uh . . . no crap.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Exile on Waveland

[CyHawk_Cub]

If Soriano's performance change is really due to going to a lighter bat, then:

 

1) I'm pissed that he was too stubborn to make the change before now

2) he could have significant value for a contender

 

His slash line is currently around 0.3053/0.3592/0.7474 since the change.

 

I just hope another buying GM is convinced that's the case

[davell]

All it takes is for Soriano to . . . hurt his knee more to make him untradable and then the Cubs will be stuck with the rest of his contract.

 

Uh . . . no crap.

The way that's quoted, makes it look like I said that. Just want to reiterate, it was NOT me.

[Backtobanks]

All it takes is for Soriano to . . . hurt his knee more to make him untradable and then the Cubs will be stuck with the rest of his contract.

 

Uh . . . no crap.

 

Really, just like Soriano was untradable before he got in his hot streak. The long baseball season normalizes most players' performance. Just look at Garza and Dempster coming back to "normal".

[Little Slide Rooter]

In a run depressed environment like it is, I could see a team giving up a top 20ish guy from their system, or perhaps a pair of top 30 guys, for Soriano, if we actually eat the 90% figure that's been mentioned before.

 

I think you're dreaming. Theo will be lucky to get much of anything for Soriano. All it takes is for Soriano to fall out of his hot streak or hurt his knee more to make him untradable and then the Cubs will be stuck with the rest of his contract.

 

That's just it though. Regardless of what happens, we'll be stuck with the rest of the contract, perhaps sans 5 million. The question is, if we have to pay it regardless, is it better spent on 2 more years of Soriano in which he'll be 37-38 years old or some very expensive lottery tickets, or if we're lucky something from some teams top 25-30 or another Ian Stewart/Chris Volstad type of ex-prospect whose team has given up on them but aren't ready to cut for nothing or even 2 of the 3 if we're really lucky.

[Magnetic Curses]

If Soriano's performance change is really due to going to a lighter bat, then:

 

1) I'm pissed that he was too stubborn to make the change before now

2) he could have significant value for a contender

 

His slash line is currently around 0.3053/0.3592/0.7474 since the change.

 

I just hope another buying GM is convinced that's the case

 

maybe another week or so and they'll believe. they can have him or they can go with whatever DH option they have. in the case of the orioles, i think they should squeeze whatever success they can out of this season.

[Guest]

I go back and forth about Soriano. On one hand, it is a bit silly to give away the value that he provides, especially if he keeps hitting anywhere near how he's hit recently. This team isn't currently overrun with outfielders, so it's not like he's a huge impediment to someone else on the roster.

 

On the other hand, at this point in time I don't know if you can have any certainty in Soriano's performance for future seasons. If he slumps before long and ends up with an up and down 2-3 win season, is that type of upside and ceiling worth the uncertainty that he will reach it? What if Jackson hits and another OF is added in trade/free agency, and you're left with 4 OF for 3 spots? Soriano's value is pretty limited as a bench bat with his lack of versatility(and anecdotally I'd guess coming off the bench would make him more prone to injury), and I could definitely seeing the current regime preferring to keep DeJesus if they had to choose.

 

All that said, even in the negative scenario, is getting rid of a limited Soriano worth freeing up a couple million dollars and getting a fringe prospect? It's not an easy decision with the info we have available. I get the impression that a decision on Soriano may be better left for the offseason. Shorter contractural commitment for trade partners, more time to recoup trade value if the lighter bat really is the difference, opportunity to rest/rehab his knee, etc.

[jersey cubs fan]

I go back and forth about Soriano. On one hand, it is a bit silly to give away the value that he provides, especially if he keeps hitting anywhere near how he's hit recently. This team isn't currently overrun with outfielders, so it's not like he's a huge impediment to someone else on the roster.

 

On the other hand, at this point in time I don't know if you can have any certainty in Soriano's performance for future seasons. If he slumps before long and ends up with an up and down 2-3 win season, is that type of upside and ceiling worth the uncertainty that he will reach it? What if Jackson hits and another OF is added in trade/free agency, and you're left with 4 OF for 3 spots? Soriano's value is pretty limited as a bench bat with his lack of versatility(and anecdotally I'd guess coming off the bench would make him more prone to injury), and I could definitely seeing the current regime preferring to keep DeJesus if they had to choose.

 

All that said, even in the negative scenario, is getting rid of a limited Soriano worth freeing up a couple million dollars and getting a fringe prospect? It's not an easy decision with the info we have available. I get the impression that a decision on Soriano may be better left for the offseason. Shorter contractural commitment for trade partners, more time to recoup trade value if the lighter bat really is the difference, opportunity to rest/rehab his knee, etc.

 

I think the time when it's worth getting rid of Soriano simply to free up the spot, regardless of return, is at least a year away. He's absolutely not hindering anybody else's potential playing time today, and I don't really see that happening by next April either. By the time next year's trading deadline comes around, if you still aren't getting bites from people who will give you quality in return of cheap production then go ahead and think about a release, or giving him away for nothing. But there's no reason to do it this summer. It's still nice to have a couple guys in the lineup who can get the fans on their feet once in a while.

[Guest]

Well, there's the LaHair/Rizzo situation to take care of. I guess you can do that by moving DeJesus to CF, but that goes against the defensive focus the team has had. Soriano / DeJesus / LaHair could be an horrendously bad OF.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, there's the LaHair/Rizzo situation to take care of. I guess you can do that by moving DeJesus to CF, but that goes against the defensive focus the team has had. Soriano / DeJesus / LaHair could be an horrendously bad OF.

 

If you are going to lose 90+ games I'm not sure trying to win an extra 2 games with defensive efficiency really matters when it comes to maximizing return on your tradeable assets.

[Guest]

Well, there's the LaHair/Rizzo situation to take care of. I guess you can do that by moving DeJesus to CF, but that goes against the defensive focus the team has had. Soriano / DeJesus / LaHair could be an horrendously bad OF.

 

If you are going to lose 90+ games I'm not sure trying to win an extra 2 games with defensive efficiency really matters when it comes to maximizing return on your tradeable assets.

Defensive efficiency also helps raise he value of your pitchers significantly, as well as reducing wear and tear on the ones you want to keep.

[rawaction]

I go back and forth about Soriano. On one hand, it is a bit silly to give away the value that he provides, especially if he keeps hitting anywhere near how he's hit recently. This team isn't currently overrun with outfielders, so it's not like he's a huge impediment to someone else on the roster.

 

On the other hand, at this point in time I don't know if you can have any certainty in Soriano's performance for future seasons. If he slumps before long and ends up with an up and down 2-3 win season, is that type of upside and ceiling worth the uncertainty that he will reach it? What if Jackson hits and another OF is added in trade/free agency, and you're left with 4 OF for 3 spots? Soriano's value is pretty limited as a bench bat with his lack of versatility(and anecdotally I'd guess coming off the bench would make him more prone to injury), and I could definitely seeing the current regime preferring to keep DeJesus if they had to choose.

 

All that said, even in the negative scenario, is getting rid of a limited Soriano worth freeing up a couple million dollars and getting a fringe prospect? It's not an easy decision with the info we have available. I get the impression that a decision on Soriano may be better left for the offseason. Shorter contractural commitment for trade partners, more time to recoup trade value if the lighter bat really is the difference, opportunity to rest/rehab his knee, etc.

 

I think the time when it's worth getting rid of Soriano simply to free up the spot, regardless of return, is at least a year away. He's absolutely not hindering anybody else's potential playing time today, and I don't really see that happening by next April either. By the time next year's trading deadline comes around, if you still aren't getting bites from people who will give you quality in return of cheap production then go ahead and think about a release, or giving him away for nothing. But there's no reason to do it this summer. It's still nice to have a couple guys in the lineup who can get the fans on their feet once in a while.

 

Agree with both. The Cubs really only have 2 OFs worthy of ever being in the lineup right now (Soriano, DeJesus) even if you throw LaHair in because of Rizzo being called up and promote Brett Jackson, you still only have 4 guys for 3 OF spots. But even in those scenarios, I don't think it's imperative for Soriano or LaHair to be in the lineup every single day. Plenty of ABs to go around. If you call up minor leaguers AND trade Soriano away from nothing, you still have Reed Johnson and Joe Mather probably starting against any LHPs, which is not ideal in any situation.

 

As much as this team needs talent and as much as they should free up some money, there's nothing to be gained by trading someone and doing neither.