40-man roster and Rule 5 protects

[Guest]

The thing about Flaherty is that he probably needs more time below the MLB level before he can be counted on as a contributor, in either a part time or full time role. You stash him on your MLB roster next year to keep him, then send him to AAA for the first part of 2013, and now he's 27 years old and you still aren't 100% sure he can fill a void. Is his upside big enough or attainable enough to be worth it on that compressed timeframe? Maybe, but it's not necessarily a slam dunk.

[dew1679666265]

If they were to select only 4, I like the choices, but for an organization thin on starting pitching, Jay and certainly Rhee should have been protected. I doubt that Rhee will be taken but I don't think it's a risk worth taking with all the open roster spots.

 

Jackson is probably the most likely guy not to stick due to ineffectiveness. He's been bad enough long enough to make it somewhat unlikely that any team selects him - and even if they do, it's pretty unlikely he sticks.

[dew1679666265]

Flaherty might get chosen, but there are guys every year for whom that argument fits and they don't get selected.

 

I don't think it's a certainty he'll get selected and there definitely are many guys who should get taken and are not, I just think it'd be a really good gamble for a cash-strapped team and one that has a pretty good chance of happening.

[dew1679666265]

The thing about Flaherty is that he probably needs more time below the MLB level before he can be counted on as a contributor, in either a part time or full time role. You stash him on your MLB roster next year to keep him, then send him to AAA for the first part of 2013, and now he's 27 years old and you still aren't 100% sure he can fill a void. Is his upside big enough or attainable enough to be worth it on that compressed timeframe? Maybe, but it's not necessarily a slam dunk.

 

You still have a lot of cheap time with him, though, and you didn't give up much to acquire him.

[bukie]

If anything, saving 6 roster spots is pretty encouraging as to the Cubs' free agency plans this offseason.

[JeffH]

Flaherty might get chosen, but there are guys every year for whom that argument fits and they don't get selected.

 

I don't think it's a certainty he'll get selected and there definitely are many guys who should get taken and are not, I just think it'd be a really good gamble for a cash-strapped team and one that has a pretty good chance of happening.

 

The thing about most horrible teams is that they usually have plenty of decent role players. They just don't have enough stars and difference makers. If the Astros take Flaherty and he turns into Matt Downs, they might be able to trade Downs for someone who might someday become the next Ryan Flaherty.

[dew1679666265]

The thing about most horrible teams is that they usually have plenty of decent role players. They just don't have enough stars and difference makers. If the Astros take Flaherty and he turns into Matt Downs, they might be able to trade Downs for someone who might someday become the next Ryan Flaherty.

 

There's a lot of value in having a steady stream of those players, though. I don't know how many Flahertys other teams have so that would clearly have an impact if other teams are just teaming with players like him.

[Guest]

The Cubs were obviously more interested in the roster space than protecting those guys. We definitely protected the top four exposed prospects in my mind, but it seems we had space to protect a few more.

 

I'm sure Theo & Jed have a plan for those roster spots, but I'm very much wondering what those plans will be. It makes me wonder, though, if one or two Cubans could be given major league contracts this winter.

I haven't seen a recent picture of Cespedes. Does he count as one, or two Cubans? :)

 

I'm guessing Tim is referring to both Cespedes and 19-year old defector Jorge Soler.

[bukie]

The Cubs were obviously more interested in the roster space than protecting those guys. We definitely protected the top four exposed prospects in my mind, but it seems we had space to protect a few more.

 

I'm sure Theo & Jed have a plan for those roster spots, but I'm very much wondering what those plans will be. It makes me wonder, though, if one or two Cubans could be given major league contracts this winter.

I haven't seen a recent picture of Cespedes. Does he count as one, or two Cubans? :)

 

I'm guessing Tim is referring to both Cespedes and 19-year old defector Jorge Soler.

Bah, can't even make one little weight joke. Would've worked better with Fielder. But thanks, yes. :)

[Guest]

Levine speculating on what the Cubs may be doing...

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/7266/with-management-in-place-time-to-pick-team

 

It’s unknown at this time as to how much money Epstein or general manager Jed Hoyer are willing to spend in free agency in order to make the 2012 team more competitive. Since taking over the team, Epstin has talked mostly about long-range goals in his “Cub way” of doing things.

 

The highest profile free agents on the market this offseason are Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder and pitcher C.J. Wilson. The agents for Fielder and Wilson talked to the Cubs at this week’s GM Meetings in Milwaukee. But one major league source said they didn’t go into great detail in any of those conversations.

Edited November 19, 2011 by David

[Guest]

The Cubs were obviously more interested in the roster space than protecting those guys. We definitely protected the top four exposed prospects in my mind, but it seems we had space to protect a few more.

 

I'm sure Theo & Jed have a plan for those roster spots, but I'm very much wondering what those plans will be. It makes me wonder, though, if one or two Cubans could be given major league contracts this winter.

I haven't seen a recent picture of Cespedes. Does he count as one, or two Cubans? :)

 

I'm guessing Tim is referring to both Cespedes and 19-year old defector Jorge Soler.

Bah, can't even make one little weight joke. Would've worked better with Fielder. But thanks, yes. :)

 

Sorry, it's been a long week. I might have gotten it if you had somehow worked in a roasted pig reference.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The thing about most horrible teams is that they usually have plenty of decent role players. They just don't have enough stars and difference makers. If the Astros take Flaherty and he turns into Matt Downs, they might be able to trade Downs for someone who might someday become the next Ryan Flaherty.

 

There's a lot of value in having a steady stream of those players, though. I don't know how many Flahertys other teams have so that would clearly have an impact if other teams are just teaming with players like him.

 

Namely not paying 4.5 million for Aaron Miles.

[Guest]

I don't understand the link between Theo's compensation and protecting players. If the Red Sox want Flaherty, why leave himm unprotected and risk letting him go and end up losing 2 players? I don't see why a player who has been protected can't be sent as compensation for Theo.

Yeah, I'm not getting that one, either.

 

The point is that, as a perennial contender, Boston isn't going to want to add players to their 40-man roster until they're very, very close to being able to contribute.

 

If they can "steal" an extra year before a player has to be rostered, that has value.

 

I don't understand the link between Theo's compensation and protecting players. If the Red Sox want Flaherty, why leave himm unprotected and risk letting him go and end up losing 2 players? I don't see why a player who has been protected can't be sent as compensation for Theo.

 

The Red Sox have a bit of a 40-man roster crunch. A player who has to be protected is significantly less valuable to them.

 

So Epstein says "Okay, you can have A or B."

 

Cherington says "We prefer A, but he's Rule 5 eligible and we don't have a spot for him. Can you wait until after the draft? If he clears, we'll take him, otherwise B will do."

 

I didn't mean to ignore this but CubColtPacer responded far more eloquently than I did.

[JeffH]

The thing about most horrible teams is that they usually have plenty of decent role players. They just don't have enough stars and difference makers. If the Astros take Flaherty and he turns into Matt Downs, they might be able to trade Downs for someone who might someday become the next Ryan Flaherty.

 

There's a lot of value in having a steady stream of those players, though. I don't know how many Flahertys other teams have so that would clearly have an impact if other teams are just teaming with players like him.

 

Namely not paying 4.5 million for Aaron Miles.

 

Of course, one thing is unrelated to the other. Don't get confused by the "Hendry effect".

[Little Slide Rooter]

I can't be the only one who's somewhat disturbed by the fact that Koyie Hill's still on the roster, can I?

[JeffH]

I can't be the only one who's somewhat disturbed by the fact that Koyie Hill's still on the roster, can I?

 

There's not much reason to remove him before the deadline to tender contracts to your arbitration eligible players.

 

Of course, until he's non-tendered, there's every reason to lose sleep.

[davell]

I'm not worried about Hill. Especially after reading the thing about Varitek from Levine. Don't get me wrong, it'd still be a waste of money AND a roster spot as well, but I'd rather have Varitek for many reasons, including the fact he probably actually is a "solid veteran presence". I know that has no literal value, but if we're going to have an old backup catcher we're paying a mill or so to, my guess is it'll be him. In a perfect world, it'll be one of Castillo or Clevenger, but my honest guess is one of them is our starter and we trade Soto.

[davell]

I could definitely see a team grabbibg Gonzalez too. In fact, he could be the guy teams take first from us. As a middle infielder, he's probably capable of sticking too. If I had to rank guys on their probabbility of getting taken, I'd say him first, then Jay Jackson because of what he'd shown previously, then Flaherty, Rhee, Antigua, and Burke.

[Guest]

I can't be the only one who's somewhat disturbed by the fact that Koyie Hill's still on the roster, can I?

 

Why does it matter? Today is not the deadline for Hill to be de-rostered.

[davell]

AZPhil brought up a really good point regarding anyone we left off today. Either Boston or the Pads could be wanting someone we left off. They just don't want them on their 40 man either, so it's a risk to see if they pass through and then they could wind up being compensation. He feels confident Gonzalez and Flaherty will be taken, for what it's worth.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Okay, you're right, the compensation thing doesn't make sense, unless Epstein is just being really, really callous about a guy like Flaherty.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Does anyone know if there's anyone interesting out there for the Rule 5 that we could snag? It has the same order as the amateur draft, right?

[Little Slide Rooter]

AZPhil brought up a really good point regarding anyone we left off today. Either Boston or the Pads could be wanting someone we left off. They just don't want them on their 40 man either, so it's a risk to see if they pass through and then they could wind up being compensation. He feels confident Gonzalez and Flaherty will be taken, for what it's worth.

 

That would make sense for Rhee or Antigua who are younger and not big league ready but still very much worth having in their system. I really hope we dont end up giving both up. As important as Epstein and Hoyer view the farm system, youd think that these are 2 young guys that theyd definitely want to keep around.

[toonsterwu]

If they were to select only 4, I like the choices, but for an organization thin on starting pitching, Jay and certainly Rhee should have been protected. I doubt that Rhee will be taken but I don't think it's a risk worth taking with all the open roster spots.

 

Jackson is probably the most likely guy not to stick due to ineffectiveness. He's been bad enough long enough to make it somewhat unlikely that any team selects him - and even if they do, it's pretty unlikely he sticks.

 

Well, the one thing I've been curious about the last two years is whether or not a move to the pen would be the best thing for Jay. In the past, he's been able to ratchet up the fastball velo to the mid-90's, occasionally topping high 90's, in short bursts. I could see a team looking for a cheap arm to develop stash him as a long man/middle relief power arm.

 

That said, if he does make it, you tip your cap and move on. Not a big loss.

[The Other One]

AZPhil brought up a really good point regarding anyone we left off today. Either Boston or the Pads could be wanting someone we left off. They just don't want them on their 40 man either, so it's a risk to see if they pass through and then they could wind up being compensation. He feels confident Gonzalez and Flaherty will be taken, for what it's worth.

 

I still don't get this approach. If there is a deal through rule 5, wouldn't it make more sense for the agreement to be the Cubs taking someone off the Red Sox that Boston doesn't want to lose and then immediately cut him and offer him back? It would give Boston an extra roster spot assuming he gets through the first 5 picks. Pay Boston $50k and give them back someone in their top 20 and call it a day on compensation?

 

As for Flaherty, I'd guess they have their eye on someone from SD or Bos that is rated higher in their minds than him. If their is no deal ahead of time, I expect their pick to rob their old clubs of someone.