Joe Paterno

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

replace the phrase "young boy" with "another woman" and take out the word anal, and that's an argument that many men have used and failed with in the past.

 

Take out all of it and replace it with wrestling and I don't see what the problem is.

[erik316wttn]

Careful guys, Truffle may quote you in his sig which would lead to untold shame for you for the rest of your NSBB days. I'd just back off right now if I were you.

[TruffleShuffle]

Why did Curley fart around? My guess is because the coach and the administrators wanted to sweep this under the rug and needed time to get their stories straight.

 

except their stories weren't straight. paterno says he knew that mcqueary had witnessed something of a sexual nature. mcqueary claims to have told curley and schultz that a former coach appeared to be having anal sex with a young boy. what i don't understand is why you're so hung up on paterno possibly watering down mcqueary's account from "anal sex with a boy" to "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" when the grad assistant directly told curley and schultz that he thought he'd seen sandusky having anal sex with a boy. they were told twice that a likely crime had occurred and did nothing except push the guy off campus.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Why did Curley fart around? My guess is because the coach and the administrators wanted to sweep this under the rug and needed time to get their stories straight.

 

except their stories weren't straight. paterno says he knew that mcqueary had witnessed something of a sexual nature. mcqueary claims to have told curley and schultz that a former coach appeared to be having anal sex with a young boy. what i don't understand is why you're so hung up on paterno possibly watering down mcqueary's account from "anal sex with a boy" to "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" when the grad assistant directly told curley and schultz that he thought he'd seen sandusky having anal sex with a boy. they were told twice that a likely crime had occurred and did nothing except push the guy off campus.

 

I'm hung up on it because it's covering up. It's a light covering up, but it's covering up. It's a piece of the puzzle, and the picture that the puzzle shows is that Paterno and others did the minimum they thought they could get away with because they wanted to protect their friend while that friend was raping children.

 

The reason we're talking about Paterno and not the others is because Paterno is the point of contention. The AD and the President lost their jobs and are facing felony charges. Paterno and his apologists are still angling for a quiet resignation that he planned on doing anyway.

[BeerHere]

Why did Curley fart around? My guess is because the coach and the administrators wanted to sweep this under the rug and needed time to get their stories straight.

 

except their stories weren't straight. paterno says he knew that mcqueary had witnessed something of a sexual nature. mcqueary claims to have told curley and schultz that a former coach appeared to be having anal sex with a young boy. what i don't understand is why you're so hung up on paterno possibly watering down mcqueary's account from "anal sex with a boy" to "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" when the grad assistant directly told curley and schultz that he thought he'd seen sandusky having anal sex with a boy. they were told twice that a likely crime had occurred and did nothing except push the guy off campus.

 

Personally, I'm not drawing a distinction between Paterno, the AD or the university president. Regardless of the perjury charges, those three men, as well as the GA and the GA's dad failed to report a known pedophile to the police. For that alone, they are despicable human beings.

[TruffleShuffle]

Why did Curley fart around? My guess is because the coach and the administrators wanted to sweep this under the rug and needed time to get their stories straight.

 

except their stories weren't straight. paterno says he knew that mcqueary had witnessed something of a sexual nature. mcqueary claims to have told curley and schultz that a former coach appeared to be having anal sex with a young boy. what i don't understand is why you're so hung up on paterno possibly watering down mcqueary's account from "anal sex with a boy" to "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" when the grad assistant directly told curley and schultz that he thought he'd seen sandusky having anal sex with a boy. they were told twice that a likely crime had occurred and did nothing except push the guy off campus.

 

I'm hung up on it because it's covering up. It's a light covering up, but it's covering up. It's a piece of the puzzle, and the picture that the puzzle shows is that Paterno and others did the minimum they thought they could get away with because they wanted to protect their friend while that friend was raping children.

 

The reason we're talking about Paterno and not the others is because Paterno is the point of contention. The AD and the President lost their jobs and are facing felony charges. Paterno and his apologists are still angling for a quiet resignation that he planned on doing anyway.

 

The vice president of something or other lost his job (went back into retirement) and Curley is on leave (which will undoubtedly become permanent). The president still has his job (for now) and if he goes it will probably come with a golden parachute.

 

I'd just stick to being angry that he didn't follow up with Curley/Schultz when he didn't hear anything more (and not going to the police himself), rather than being mad that he may have watered down a super-serious sexual offense into a slightly-less-horrendous-but-still-wildly-illegal-and-bad offense.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd just stick to being angry that he didn't follow up with Curley/Schultz when he didn't hear anything more (and not going to the police himself), rather than being mad that he may have watered down a super-serious sexual offense into a slightly-less-horrendous-but-still-wildly-illegal-and-bad offense.

 

It's not an either or. You can be made at him for not following up and for potentially watering down, ie. covering up.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The anger that child-rape enablers inspire in me is large enough to be divided into more than two parts.

[TruffleShuffle]

look kyle, i guess this is what it comes down to for me. he's been at psu for 60 years and head coach for 45 years. he's done an enormous amount of good for the school - in how it's grown, donating several million dollars despite always being paid less than most top college football coaches, etc. he and his wife have given a great deal of support to the local special olympics programs, with which i was involved for several years. he's always had a high graduation rate and never had any ncaa violations. he's been a great mentor to thousands of young men.

 

so it bothers me that he's probably going to be forced out, and that this is what he'll be most remembered for. you have all these people, some of them completely self-centered, never serving as a mentor for anybody, never doing a charitable deed in their lives, saying that he's a despicable human being, as bad as sandusky for sitting by and allowing it to happen, that none of his accomplishments matter now. that upsets me because i think he's a good man who's done more good for his community than 99.9% of people out there, and it's unfair to judge or condemn him on one serious error in moral judgement. i know most people disagree, but that's how i feel.

[SouthSideRyan]

Right or wrong, it's hard to believe the public persona of Paterno is accurate after something as horrifying as this comes out 10 years after the fact.

[jersey cubs fan]

it's unfair to judge or condemn him on one serious error in moral judgement. i know most people disagree, but that's how i feel.

 

It was not an error of judgement. He allowed a child rapist to rape children while using the name of penn state football coach, did absolutely nothing to stop the rapist from raping children and/or covered up the rape.

 

If he cheated on his wife with his secretary that would be an error in moral judgement that most people could look past. This is much more serious.

 

 

Also, while it's nice that the guy has given back, he gets paid millions of dollars to be a football coach without actually having to be a football coach. He has more time and money than 99.9% of the world has and a million more opportunities to give back. You can't criticize people who are critical of him by saying they haven't done as much as him for the community. That is asinine. Also, mob bosses generally give back to the community as well.

Edited November 8, 2011 by jersey cubs fan

[Hairyducked Idiot]

look kyle, i guess this is what it comes down to for me. he's been at psu for 60 years and head coach for 45 years. he's done an enormous amount of good for the school - in how it's grown, donating several million dollars despite always being paid less than most top college football coaches, etc. he and his wife have given a great deal of support to the local special olympics programs, with which i was involved for several years. he's always had a high graduation rate and never had any ncaa violations. he's been a great mentor to thousands of young men.

 

so it bothers me that he's probably going to be forced out, and that this is what he'll be most remembered for. you have all these people, some of them completely self-centered, never serving as a mentor for anybody, never doing a charitable deed in their lives, saying that he's a despicable human being, as bad as sandusky for sitting by and allowing it to happen, that none of his accomplishments matter now. that upsets me because i think he's a good man who's done more good for his community than 99.9% of people out there, and it's unfair to judge or condemn him on one serious error in moral judgement. i know most people disagree, but that's how i feel.

 

Some errors are serious enough to take down a lifetime of good reputation, and rightfully so.

 

How much money do you have to donate to Special Olympics to make it okay to let a kid get raped? $1 million? $10 million? What's the $ to CRAR conversion formula?

[TruffleShuffle]

How much money do you have to donate to Special Olympics to make it okay to let a kid get raped? $1 million? $10 million? What's the $ to CRAR conversion formula?

 

i said what i wanted to say. if this is your response then there's no point in discussing anything with you any more.

[jersey cubs fan]

How much money do you have to donate to Special Olympics to make it okay to let a kid get raped? $1 million? $10 million? What's the $ to CRAR conversion formula?

 

i said what i wanted to say. if this is your response then there's no point in discussing anything with you any more.

 

it's a legit response. You are excusing a rich child rape enabler by saying he donated money.

[jersey cubs fan]

Just remember, the real monsters in this story are the people who don't give back as much to the community as the millionaire faux football coach.

[UMFan83]

look kyle, i guess this is what it comes down to for me. he's been at psu for 60 years and head coach for 45 years. he's done an enormous amount of good for the school - in how it's grown, donating several million dollars despite always being paid less than most top college football coaches, etc. he and his wife have given a great deal of support to the local special olympics programs, with which i was involved for several years. he's always had a high graduation rate and never had any ncaa violations. he's been a great mentor to thousands of young men.

 

so it bothers me that he's probably going to be forced out, and that this is what he'll be most remembered for. you have all these people, some of them completely self-centered, never serving as a mentor for anybody, never doing a charitable deed in their lives, saying that he's a despicable human being, as bad as sandusky for sitting by and allowing it to happen, that none of his accomplishments matter now. that upsets me because i think he's a good man who's done more good for his community than 99.9% of people out there, and it's unfair to judge or condemn him on one serious error in moral judgement. i know most people disagree, but that's how i feel.

 

Not a bad way to put it. I'm not sure the families of the victims feel that way, especially the families of the victims that occured after JoePa knew about it. But a PSU supporter like yourself obviously wants to put it in this light as its tough to see everything you've ever known about Penn State go up in flames, so there's obviously unintentional bias in your viewpoint. I could be wrong, but if this happened to Florida State and Bobby Bowden a couple of years ago, I'm not so sure you'd feel this adamantly about your viewpoint.

[TruffleShuffle]

Not a bad way to put it. I'm not sure the families of the victims feel that way, especially the families of the victims that occured after JoePa knew about it. But a PSU supporter like yourself obviously wants to put it in this light as its tough to see everything you've ever known about Penn State go up in flames, so there's obviously unintentional bias in your viewpoint. I could be wrong, but if this happened to Florida State and Bobby Bowden a couple of years ago, I'm not so sure you'd feel this adamantly about your viewpoint.

 

actually a lot of PSU supporters feel the way that everyone on this board (besides myself) feels. i can't say how i would've felt if this had happened to bowden, but i do remember thinking that FSU handled the situation poorly and should've given bowden one more year like he wanted. i think there were some NCAA violations at FSU under bowden (not positive about that) and didn't get the impression that he did the quite as much work for the school and community that paterno did, but he did raise the profile of FSU quite a bit and i thought that dumping him was the wrong move.

[Derwood]

I'm conflicted about how the NCAA should deal with this. What is the precedent as far as members of a football program coaching staff committing criminal acts unrelated to the program. How did the NCAA get involved? If Ron Zook murdered someone, would there be NCAA sanctions on Illinois because he's the coach? Can the NCAA apply sanctions to the school because they didn't "do the right thing morally"?

 

Not sure where this will lead

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm conflicted about how the NCAA should deal with this. What is the precedent as far as members of a football program coaching staff committing criminal acts unrelated to the program. How did the NCAA get involved? If Ron Zook murdered someone, would there be NCAA sanctions on Illinois because he's the coach? Can the NCAA apply sanctions to the school because they didn't "do the right thing morally"?

 

Not sure where this will lead

 

If Ron Zook murdered some people and he was busted shortly thereafter while the school and program cooperated with the investigation I doubt the NCAA would get involed. If his assistant murdered somebody and he knew it and he tried to sweep it under the rug and they found out by other witnesses a decade from now, and he was still there, i think it might be more likely they would get involved.

 

 

I still think if Penn State cleans house the NCAA will stay away.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Wait, Ron Zook's assistant killed Ray Gricar?

[SouthSideRyan]

Wait, Ron Zook's assistant killed Ray Gricar?

 

Is everyone ok if we just pin this on Zook?

[Derwood]

I'm conflicted about how the NCAA should deal with this. What is the precedent as far as members of a football program coaching staff committing criminal acts unrelated to the program. How did the NCAA get involved? If Ron Zook murdered someone, would there be NCAA sanctions on Illinois because he's the coach? Can the NCAA apply sanctions to the school because they didn't "do the right thing morally"?

 

Not sure where this will lead

 

If Ron Zook murdered some people and he was busted shortly thereafter while the school and program cooperated with the investigation I doubt the NCAA would get involed. If his assistant murdered somebody and he knew it and he tried to sweep it under the rug and they found out by other witnesses a decade from now, and he was still there, i think it might be more likely they would get involved.

 

But again, how does it involve the football program or university (outside of Zook working for them)? Everyone involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but why should the students in the football program suffer because the AD and President of Penn State are cretins?

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm conflicted about how the NCAA should deal with this. What is the precedent as far as members of a football program coaching staff committing criminal acts unrelated to the program. How did the NCAA get involved? If Ron Zook murdered someone, would there be NCAA sanctions on Illinois because he's the coach? Can the NCAA apply sanctions to the school because they didn't "do the right thing morally"?

 

Not sure where this will lead

 

If Ron Zook murdered some people and he was busted shortly thereafter while the school and program cooperated with the investigation I doubt the NCAA would get involed. If his assistant murdered somebody and he knew it and he tried to sweep it under the rug and they found out by other witnesses a decade from now, and he was still there, i think it might be more likely they would get involved.

 

But again, how does it involve the football program or university (outside of Zook working for them)? Everyone involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but why should the students in the football program suffer because the AD and President of Penn State are cretins?

 

It involves people who work or worked on the football team. And the current students always suffer from problems created by past participants when the ncaa investigates something.

 

child rape by a football coach on football premises witnessed by people working for the football team and potentially covered up and at the very least ignored by the head coach absolutely involves the football program and university.

[Derwood]

well we'll see how it plays out, but I think this is a unique situation that's not so clear cut in terms of how the NCAA becomes involved. If the assaults/rapes were a) by an active coach and b) committed against student athletes, I think there's no question about their involvement. This case, however, seems murky at best.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But again, how does it involve the football program or university (outside of Zook working for them)? Everyone involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but why should the students in the football program suffer because the AD and President of Penn State are cretins?

 

Because anything less doesn't send a strong enough message that this sort of behavior won't be tolerated.

 

It's sad for the innocent people in the program, but Paterno and Co. should have thought about that before they enabled a child rapist pal.