Zambrano, Ramirez, and LaHair

[Backtobanks]

Epstein on Chicago Tribune Live made it sound like there was some thought as to retaining Zambrano, re-signing Ramirez, and giving LaHair a good shot at 1B.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/shows/ctl

[biittner77]

2 out of 3 ain't bad?

 

Maybe they see Lahair as a bridge to Vitters? That seems like a reach to me.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know there are a lot of people here who strongly disagree, but if we were to miss out on not not even bid on Fielder or Pujols, LaHair would be my next choice. Not saying he's better than the remaining options (Pena, Kotchman, Cuddyer), but I dont think the others would be enough of an upgrade to likely pay a multi year 8 figure/year as opposed to LaHairs league min, plus the fact that there's 0 commitmant and we can move on as soon as another option is available.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im also very much for keeping Z, and I've explained why before. While he's nowhere near an 18 nil pitcher, he's certainly a solid 3 starter in most big league rotations or a 4 in any other. Do you want to pay a mid rotation started 18 mil? Absolutely not. However, if you have to pay him 18 mil, would you rather he pitch for you, or for the Orioles or Marlins with little to nothing in return while we have Casey Coleman or Rodrigo Lopez in his place?

 

Also, for 2013, he has an 18 mil team option with a 9 mil buyout, and there's nobody who expects The Cubs to excercise the option and this is essentially a contract year for him. This being said, if there's ever a year for him to be on his best behavior and look like an 18 million dollar ace, this is the year. If he does, an July rolls around with The Cubs in contemtion, great. If not, that's when you trade him.

[davell]

Personally, I think LaHair is going to suck. But, if Pujols and Fielder wind up elsewhere, using him as a stopgap isn't a bad idea. If he surprises, we've got a bright new shiny trade asset we didn't have before. If he fails, hopefully we've signed someone else who can finish out the year for us. Hell, it could be Aramis, with LeMahieu and Flaherty platooning at 3B.

[Brian]

LaHair is the next Jason Dubois.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Thus Sayeth His Majesty:

 

I have a soft spot for guys who hit everywhere they’ve ever been – hit, hit, hit and continue to hit. There’s this myth about the 4-A hitter. Guys who perform all the way up the minor leagues, dominate triple-A, get a cup of coffee, they hit a buck-fifty in the big leagues, and everybody labels them a 4-A hitter. The reality is, I’m not so sure there is something called a 4-A hitter. It’s just pretty good major league hitter who never got an opportunity …. [LaHair is] an asset. We’ll have to take a deeper look .… There’s more to this game, especially in the National League, than just swinging the bat. We’ll dig deeper on that one. But, look, we’re looking for assets. We’re going to scratch and claw and do everything in our power — in the draft, internationally, small trades, waiver claims. We need to build assets because we don’t have enough of them. We’re not going to look past one that might be sitting right there in our organization.

 

http://www.bleachernation.com/2011/10/26/many-more-quotes-and-thoughts-from-the-theo-epstein-media-tour/

[UMFan83]

As soon as I saw this thread, I was sure that WSR started it or was the first reply. Disappointed to see he was only the 2nd reply.

[CubColtPacer]

Im also very much for keeping Z, and I've explained why before. While he's nowhere near an 18 nil pitcher, he's certainly a solid 3 starter in most big league rotations or a 4 in any other. Do you want to pay a mid rotation started 18 mil? Absolutely not. However, if you have to pay him 18 mil, would you rather he pitch for you, or for the Orioles or Marlins with little to nothing in return while we have Casey Coleman or Rodrigo Lopez in his place?

 

Also, for 2013, he has an 18 mil team option with a 9 mil buyout, and there's nobody who expects The Cubs to excercise the option and this is essentially a contract year for him. This being said, if there's ever a year for him to be on his best behavior and look like an 18 million dollar ace, this is the year. If he does, an July rolls around with The Cubs in contemtion, great. If not, that's when you trade him.

 

Where are you getting this 18 million dollar option with 9 million dollar buyout from? Z has a vesting option in 2013 that almost certainly isn't going to vest. Otherwise his contract ends after next year with no buyout.

[jersey cubs fan]

Actually I think he was clearly just giving a positive answer to a dumbass question.

 

Notice how he talked about consistently dominating at every level of the minors? LaHair was a mediocre hitter until his 17th year at AAA when he was 42 years old. LaHair hasn't come close to fitting the description Theo gave of a guy who just keeps on hitting everywhere.

[Guest]

Im also very much for keeping Z, and I've explained why before. While he's nowhere near an 18 nil pitcher, he's certainly a solid 3 starter in most big league rotations or a 4 in any other. Do you want to pay a mid rotation started 18 mil? Absolutely not. However, if you have to pay him 18 mil, would you rather he pitch for you, or for the Orioles or Marlins with little to nothing in return while we have Casey Coleman or Rodrigo Lopez in his place?

 

Also, for 2013, he has an 18 mil team option with a 9 mil buyout, and there's nobody who expects The Cubs to excercise the option and this is essentially a contract year for him. This being said, if there's ever a year for him to be on his best behavior and look like an 18 million dollar ace, this is the year. If he does, an July rolls around with The Cubs in contemtion, great. If not, that's when you trade him.

 

 

I think our front office might value the draft pick more than the likely return, assuming he's Type A.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Actually I think he was clearly just giving a positive answer to a dumbass question.

 

Notice how he talked about consistently dominating at every level of the minors? LaHair was a mediocre hitter until his 17th year at AAA when he was 42 years old. LaHair hasn't come close to fitting the description Theo gave of a guy who just keeps on hitting everywhere.

 

But still, assuming Fielder or Pujols don't happen, how much do we want to pay and how many years do we want to give plan C,D, Or E? Sure, LaHair could be another DuBois, but he could also be another Ludwick and have a few decent years in him. i'm willing to take the chance if we can't get what we really want, especially if this is a tread water type of season, in which case I say trade Byrd for a DeRosa type package.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Im also very much for keeping Z, and I've explained why before. While he's nowhere near an 18 nil pitcher, he's certainly a solid 3 starter in most big league rotations or a 4 in any other. Do you want to pay a mid rotation started 18 mil? Absolutely not. However, if you have to pay him 18 mil, would you rather he pitch for you, or for the Orioles or Marlins with little to nothing in return while we have Casey Coleman or Rodrigo Lopez in his place?

 

Also, for 2013, he has an 18 mil team option with a 9 mil buyout, and there's nobody who expects The Cubs to excercise the option and this is essentially a contract year for him. This being said, if there's ever a year for him to be on his best behavior and look like an 18 million dollar ace, this is the year. If he does, an July rolls around with The Cubs in contemtion, great. If not, that's when you trade him.

 

 

I think our front office might value the draft pick more than the likely return, assuming he's Type A.

 

That's also an option. My point is, there should be 0 urgency to railroad him out of town this offseason unless someone offers up something of value, be it cash and/or prospects.

[jersey cubs fan]

Actually I think he was clearly just giving a positive answer to a dumbass question.

 

Notice how he talked about consistently dominating at every level of the minors? LaHair was a mediocre hitter until his 17th year at AAA when he was 42 years old. LaHair hasn't come close to fitting the description Theo gave of a guy who just keeps on hitting everywhere.

 

But still, assuming Fielder or Pujols don't happen, how much do we want to pay and how many years do we want to give plan C,D, Or E? Sure, LaHair could be another DuBois, but he could also be another Ludwick and have a few decent years in him. i'm willing to take the chance if we can't get what we really want, especially if this is a tread water type of season, in which case I say trade Byrd for a DeRosa type package.

 

That is a horribly stupid chance to take.

[BeerHere]

During the press conference yesterday Epstein noted that he wants guys in the clubhouse that (paraphrasing) stick together, that strive to win together, that understand that it is a team effort, that fully buy into the "Cubs Way", etc etc. Zambrano quit on his teammates last year and all reports are that there are some in the clubhouse that haven't forgiven him. Ricketts made multiple mistakes by saying publicly that Z is finished with the Cubs, effectively killing his own negotiating leverage. I would be willing to bet that Zambrano is gone and anything that Epstein says to the contrary this offseason is just posturing to get a better deal with they do send him on his way.

 

My personal opinion - good riddance. It is entirely possible that I read into Epstein's comments specifically looking for something to support my thoughts and hope however.

[SouthSideRyan]

Who are 3 people who've never been in my kitchen.

 

Epstein talked about LaHair because he thought it would be rude to laugh at Rogers and throw a pie in his face in response.

[CubColtPacer]

Im also very much for keeping Z, and I've explained why before. While he's nowhere near an 18 nil pitcher, he's certainly a solid 3 starter in most big league rotations or a 4 in any other. Do you want to pay a mid rotation started 18 mil? Absolutely not. However, if you have to pay him 18 mil, would you rather he pitch for you, or for the Orioles or Marlins with little to nothing in return while we have Casey Coleman or Rodrigo Lopez in his place?

 

Also, for 2013, he has an 18 mil team option with a 9 mil buyout, and there's nobody who expects The Cubs to excercise the option and this is essentially a contract year for him. This being said, if there's ever a year for him to be on his best behavior and look like an 18 million dollar ace, this is the year. If he does, an July rolls around with The Cubs in contemtion, great. If not, that's when you trade him.

 

 

I think our front office might value the draft pick more than the likely return, assuming he's Type A.

 

I'd be shocked if Z was a type A after next year. His 2011 and especially his suspension will end up killing him in most categories. If he has another year like this year he might not even make type B (although I'm guessing he'll pitch more innings next year which will get him into that type B). And the Cubs won't want to offer him arbitration because he'd get a lot more in arbitration than he would on the free agent market.

[Guest]

 

I'd be shocked if Z was a type A after next year. His 2011 and especially his suspension will end up killing him in most categories. If he has another year like this year he might not even make type B (although I'm guessing he'll pitch more innings next year which will get him into that type B). And the Cubs won't want to offer him arbitration because he'd get a lot more in arbitration than he would on the free agent market.

 

 

True. I was kinda going with the idea that if he's good enough for him to be worth trading at the deadline, he might've turned things around enough. But I don't know all that much about how they determine the different types.

[jersey cubs fan]

Zambrano quit on his teammates last year

 

Zambrano was out of the game and talked about retirement after a teammate berated him. He didn't quit.

[davearm2]

Yeah of course Epstein is going to come out on his first day on the job and say we're going to give everyone a shot, look at all our internal options, etc.

 

Just imagine the tone it would set if instead, he came right out of the gate saying the dude that hit 40 HRs in AAA last year has no chance.

[BeerHere]

Zambrano quit on his teammates last year

 

Zambrano was out of the game and talked about retirement after a teammate berated him. He didn't quit.

 

He packed up his stuff and left. He rescinded his remarks when he realized how much money he left on the table. That sounds like quitting to me, but whatever.

 

He's also publicly called out his closer. Fought with multiple teammates on multiple occasions in the dugout of all places. He's been to anger management at the team's request. In general, he hasn't pitched up the ace contract that he signed, been a pain in the arse, a terrible teammate and can't control his temper. He's been so bad that the team paid him to not be there even while the pitching staff desperately needed him and his replacement(s) were terrible. There is very clear writing on the wall, but keep splitting hairs if you want.

[davearm2]

Zambrano quit on his teammates last year

 

Zambrano was out of the game and talked about retirement after a teammate berated him. He didn't quit.

No amount of spin can change the fact that Zambrano walked out on the Cubs.

 

If that's not quitting on your teammates, I don't know what is.

[Banedon]

I know we aren't used to this as Cubs fans, but it might just be that Theo was talking up his assets rather than smashing them to pieces before getting garbage for them. We're all used to Hendry destroying any value a player has before selling them low.

[jersey cubs fan]

Zambrano quit on his teammates last year

 

Zambrano was out of the game and talked about retirement after a teammate berated him. He didn't quit.

 

He packed up his stuff and left. He rescinded his remarks when he realized how much money he left on the table. That sounds like quitting to me, but whatever.

 

 

He was out of the game. He couldn't do a damn thing to affect that game at that point. The fact that he packed his stuff is absolutely meaningless. He had a hissy fit after a teammate went off on him for hitting the opponent.

[jersey cubs fan]

I know we aren't used to this as Cubs fans, but it might just be that Theo was talking up his assets rather than smashing them to pieces before getting garbage for them. We're all used to Hendry destroying any value a player has before selling them low.

 

Yep, he's either holding onto an undervalued asset (undervalued because Kaplan types freaked out about him and the Cubs shot themselves in the foot with how they handled it) or trying to prop up the value before making any move. No way of knowing because we actually have a front office that doesn't telegraph every move they are going to make.