Rickets gives Fleita 4-year extension

[dew1679666265]

While reading all of these posts, I thought the same thing. Is the lack of walks something to blame on Fleita or the hitting coaches? I'm not saying he's done a great job, but it doesn't sound like we're all on the same page as to what his exact duties are.

 

Yeah, if the only problem with Fleita is philosophical and he's very good at everything else (whatever else his responsibilities are), then a new GM would force a philosophical change from Fleita or he'll quit/be fired. I still don't like forcing Fleita on a new GM, but this doesn't necessarily mean Ricketts is going to make a bad GM hire or that he's going to perpetuate the same philosophy.

[Guest]

I still don't understand this odd fascination with WALKS.

 

Isn't something like "stop swinging at bad pitches" really what is desired?

 

Most walks are the result of poor command by the pitcher, not the uncanny eye of the hitter.

 

Most walks are gifts, NOT EARNED

 

The cubs sure get a whole lot fewer gifts than other teams, up and down the organization. Walks are not the goal, they are a side effect of a disciplined approach that results in better contact, fewer outs, and more extra base hits. If you have a system wide shortage in walks, then you can believe you have a shortage of MLB quality hitters that can drive the ball, which has certainly been an issue for the Cubs for years.

[dew1679666265]

I still don't understand this odd fascination with WALKS.

 

Isn't something like "stop swinging at bad pitches" really what is desired?

 

Most walks are the result of poor command by the pitcher, not the uncanny eye of the hitter.

 

Most walks are gifts, NOT EARNED

 

Drawing walks is not a purely passive activity. The pitcher has a strategy entering each AB and part of that is to try to get a hitter to expand his strike zone. Maddux rarely walked batters due to poor control, largely it was in an effort to get them to chase pitchers' pitches out of the zone and a lot of times it worked.

 

There are also pitches thrown in the zone that aren't hittable - a batter should lay off of those as well. Being a patient hitter is simply about not swinging at pitches way out of the zone - it's about understanding the strike zone, understanding the type and location of pitches you want to hit, and having the discipline to lay off pitches the pitcher wants you to swing at. Walks are a result of both a hitter who has a good plan when he steps to the plate and a pitcher who struggles to find the zone. It's not all because of one or the other.

[Guest]

3) You still haven't provided any evidence of Fleita's competence except a tallest midget argument, but I've provided plenty of reasons to doubt it. Care to offer some decent evidence of Fleita's competence in player development? If not, I can't find any reason to be happy with this decision.

Curious what you'd say to the following hypothesis. Let me say up front that I don't necessarily buy into it, but it's surely plausible. It goes like this.

 

Fleita is the person in charge of implementing the GM's master plan for player development. Fleita doesn't create the plan, he just carries it out. He's the caretaker... the middle-man between the GM and the minor league coaches.

 

Put a new GM in place, with a new set of parameters and ideals and points of emphasis, and Fleita and his coaching staff will adapt their methods and approach to fit the new organizational player-development blueprint.

 

Of course a natural outcome, if you believe this theory has merit, is that Fleita very well may have done things much differently if he was left to his own devices, rather than taking his marching orders from Hendry. We really can't know for sure.

 

Personally I think it's much more likely that the Cubs' player-dev system is an amalgamation of Hendry's and Fleita's philosophies. But the notion that Hendry was the mastermind, and Fleita the lieutenant, surely could be accurate.

 

The natural question to that scenario is why extend Fleita then? Yes men to pass along the game plan aren't exactly in such short supply that you extend them before hiring the guy who creates the plan.

[SouthSideRyan]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[BearClaw]

current MLB stats show 23 players with an OBP of .375 or greater, and walks aren't the main contributor, as only 3 of the 23 have more walks than K's.............

 

also look at Kotchman with a .385 OBP and only 39 walks in about 460 plate appearances, and Michael Yound, .376 OBP and 38 walks in about a whopping 580 plate appearances.....

 

walks are nice, but don't you think the 2 guys mentioned are categorized as aggressive, but still get on base via contact better than most............they call that a HITTER

 

maybe someone should ask the Cubs minor leaguers what they are asked/told to do?

 

maybe the wish for wanting every prospect to be Bautista-like is unreasonable as he is the outlier!

 

the cry for WALKS make it seem like everyone feels the Cubs kids are ALL from the school of Sanguillen/Vlad School of Bad Ball Hitting.................lol

[UK1679666180]

current MLB stats show 23 players with an OBP of .375 or greater, and walks aren't the main contributor, as only 3 of the 23 have more walks than K's.............

 

also look at Kotchman with a .385 OBP and only 39 walks in about 460 plate appearances, and Michael Yound, .376 OBP and 38 walks in about a whopping 580 plate appearances.....

 

walks are nice, but don't you think the 2 guys mentioned are categorized as aggressive, but still get on base via contact better than most............they call that a HITTER

 

maybe someone should ask the Cubs minor leaguers what they are asked/told to do?

 

maybe the wish for wanting every prospect to be Bautista-like is unreasonable as he is the outlier!

 

the cry for WALKS make it seem like everyone feels the Cubs kids are ALL from the school of Sanguillen/Vlad School of Bad Ball Hitting.................lol

 

 

It's not about walks or BB/K, it's about approach at the plate and most importantly putting yourself in a good position to get a good pitch to hit.

 

If you have a good eye at the plate, you're much more likely to be in favorable counts, which not only increases BB totals but more importantly avg. and power numbers.

 

Walks are a byproduct of a better eye/approach at the plate.

 

I want them to be more passive with pitches out of the zone or on the corners and more aggressive on pitches in the zone.

 

I doubt any of the posters here who want increased BB totals want them to become passive at the plate, but rather put themselves in a better position to become productive.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I still don't understand this odd fascination with WALKS.

 

Isn't something like "stop swinging at bad pitches" really what is desired?

 

Most walks are the result of poor command by the pitcher, not the uncanny eye of the hitter.

 

Most walks are gifts, NOT EARNED

 

Also, the sun revolves around the Earth, which is flat, and everything is made up of combinations of the four elements: air, water, fire and earth.

[Outshined_One]

the cry for WALKS make it seem like everyone feels the Cubs kids are ALL from the school of Sanguillen/Vlad School of Bad Ball Hitting.................lol

 

Vlad Guerrero has actually been pretty good at taking walks in his career (.062 IsoD).

[BearClaw]

No sense arguing about it.

 

Every at bat is unique, so whats a hitter to do?

 

Should he take the first pitch every time and hope for BALL 1 at the risk of starting at 0-1?

 

whatever

[JimSorgi]

No sense arguing about it.

 

Every at bat is unique, so whats a hitter to do?

 

Should he take the first pitch every time and hope for BALL 1 at the risk of starting at 0-1?

 

whatever

Yup, just never ever swing at the first pitch. That's plate discipline.

[Clem Fandango]

No sense arguing about it.

 

Every at bat is unique, so whats a hitter to do?

 

Should he take the first pitch every time and hope for BALL 1 at the risk of starting at 0-1?

 

whatever

Yup, just never ever swing at the first pitch. That's plate discipline.

 

Chipper Jones has a very basic approach to the subject...

 

For me, plate discipline is being able to know what pitch you want to put in play before you step in the box and not swinging at anything else but that.

 

This was taken form a pretty decent article about it that Jerry Crasnick wrote back in 2009 here:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=4136793

 

Also from that article:

 

We have a cycle that we pound into hitters' heads. It consists of the approach, the result, and then the response to what just happened. It's not about going up there trying to walk. It's about getting a good pitch to hit.

[TruffleShuffle]

also, never swinging at the first pitch.

[SouthSideRyan]

I still don't understand this odd fascination with WALKS.

 

Isn't something like "stop swinging at bad pitches" really what is desired?

 

Most walks are the result of poor command by the pitcher, not the uncanny eye of the hitter.

 

Most walks are gifts, NOT EARNED

 

I just punched my computer in the face.

[SouthSideRyan]

No sense arguing about it.

 

Every at bat is unique, so whats a hitter to do?

 

Should he take the first pitch every time and hope for BALL 1 at the risk of starting at 0-1?

 

whatever

Yup, just never ever swing at the first pitch. That's plate discipline.

 

I don't think they should swing at any pitches.

[idakepps]

I posted this in the new Wilken extension thread, but I want to put it here too since I was one of the virulent Oneri extension haters. This is from the ESPN piece about Wilken's possible deal......

 

Like Fleita, Wilken will have a number of teams interested in his services. If the Cubs decide to make a further commitment to Wilken, the next general manager will have two vital positions in place when he takes over. There will, however, be some flexibility for Ricketts and his next general manager to make changes to those spots in the near future. Fleita’s deal (and a possible one for Wilkens) will be structured creatively with buyouts and options to benefit both the team and the executives.

 

Makes Oneri's deal much more tolerable in my mind. Sounds like the new GM will have the freedom to change things if he wishes. I don't mind if Ricketts thinks these guys are worth keeping around and thinks the GM should have the chance to make his own judgement.

[Guest]

I'm fine with keeping Wilken around for a year or for longer.

 

I had previously said that I wouldn't be surprised to see Fleita stick around for another year to smooth a transition to a new regime. I'd feel a lot better if that's the contract structure in place instead of a flat four year deal.

 

I would have been happier to see him go, though.

[idakepps]

I'm fine with keeping Wilken around for a year or for longer.

 

I had previously said that I wouldn't be surprised to see Fleita stick around for another year to smooth a transition to a new regime. I'd feel a lot better if that's the contract structure in place instead of a flat four year deal.

 

I would have been happier to see him go, though.

 

Can't disagree with that.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Good move. Smart organizations try to keep young tapers, player of suit.

 

I think were going to lose Wilken. Gut call, because I base it on nothing.

 

Looks like my gut sucks. It doesn't suck to keep him.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

For me, plate discipline is being able to know what pitch you want to put in play before you step in the box and not swinging at anything else but that.

 

This was taken form a pretty decent article about it that Jerry Crasnick wrote back in 2009 here:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=4136793

 

Also from that article:

 

We have a cycle that we pound into hitters' heads. It consists of the approach, the result, and then the response to what just happened. It's not about going up there trying to walk. It's about getting a good pitch to hit.

 

I like this one:

 

As managers obsess over pitchers' workloads and teams routinely carry staffs with 12 or even 13 arms, the 30 major league clubs continue to look for ways to drive up pitch counts and apply the pressure. One ultra-selective Albert Pujols or Kevin Youkilis in the middle of the order sets the tone, and the mindset becomes contagious.

 

I believe this is true and it's reason #1 why signing Fielder/Pujols is such a key for the Cubs this year.

 

And these:

 

"We don't want guys to strike out, but I don't think a guy strikes out less by telling him to strike out less," Cherington says.

 

"There's a learning curve for hitters, and there are going to be some down cycles," Lieppman says. "As you teach people how to be selective, in many cases performance will go down and you'll see an increase in passivity for hitters. It's hard to be aggressive and patient and selective at the same time."

 

What these men need to understand is that they have a duty to us fans to make sure each and every player gets it, immediately, or else!

[jersey cubs fan]

Good move. Smart organizations try to keep young tapers, player of suit.

 

I think were going to lose Wilken. Gut call, because I base it on nothing.

 

Looks like my gut sucks. It doesn't suck to keep him.

 

What the heck is a young tapers player of suit?

[javy knows my name]

No sense arguing about it.

 

Every at bat is unique, so whats a hitter to do?

 

Should he take the first pitch every time and hope for BALL 1 at the risk of starting at 0-1?

 

whatever

 

You're a bit of a nut case

[javy knows my name]

walks are nice, but don't you think the 2 guys mentioned are categorized as aggressive, but still get on base via contact better than most............they call that a HITTER

 

This didn't just happen...how did I miss this?!

[davearm2]

What's funny is that most folks can't wait to get rid of the Cub with the best plate discipline and highest walk total -- by far.

[SouthSideRyan]

What's funny is that most folks can't wait to get rid of the Cub with the best plate discipline and highest walk total -- by far.

 

Hilarious.