Re: Darvish

[davell]

I'd certainly attempt to make it a 3 year deal, but if it came down to it and he had been healthy in 2012, yeah, I'd do it. To me, he's probably getting 12 or 13 per. It's a risk, but it's not THAT big of one. I'd rather go get Upton, but my honest guess is he'll be traded and locked into a longterm deal before he hits FA.

[USSoccer]

What's wrong with Ethier, other than he's evidently a prick towards some of his current teammates? He played hurt most of this past season and his 3 previous ones he had OPS'S of .885, .869, and .857. He'd be 31 at that point and could probably be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don't see a problem with him. He's not great defensively? That's not enough to bother me about him.

 

So you'd be okay giving a 31 year old Ethier a 4 year deal?

 

Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT.

 

Well, hell, sign me up twice then. Good thing we didn't waste money on a fatty

[USSoccer]

I'd certainly attempt to make it a 3 year deal, but if it came down to it and he had been healthy in 2012, yeah, I'd do it. To me, he's probably getting 12 or 13 per. It's a risk, but it's not THAT big of one. I'd rather go get Upton, but my honest guess is he'll be traded and locked into a longterm deal before he hits FA.

 

So your plan is to be the mid 90's Cubs?

[Sammy Sofa]

He man, you avoid not getting locked into fatty money then you can afford the WORLD.

[Rob]

I'd certainly attempt to make it a 3 year deal, but if it came down to it and he had been healthy in 2012, yeah, I'd do it. To me, he's probably getting 12 or 13 per. It's a risk, but it's not THAT big of one. I'd rather go get Upton, but my honest guess is he'll be traded and locked into a longterm deal before he hits FA.

 

But why spend 12 or 13 mil per year when you can get the same value from a guy for half that? We just got DeJesus, a better player, for about 1/3 of what Ethier will make per season.

[davell]

What's wrong with Ethier, other than he's evidently a prick towards some of his current teammates? He played hurt most of this past season and his 3 previous ones he had OPS'S of .885, .869, and .857. He'd be 31 at that point and could probably be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don't see a problem with him. He's not great defensively? That's not enough to bother me about him.

 

So you'd be okay giving a 31 year old Ethier a 4 year deal?

 

Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT.

You're getting me confused with someone else. My position on Prince has changed somewhat because Rizzo may be available and I really, really like his chances. And because we missed out on a bigtime pitcher. If Rizzo becomes what he's capable of, we'd have that much more cash to spend elsewhere. Along with I'm really starting to think Prince is getting 200 mill. I think he's an impact guy for sure. But I think Rizzo will be and obviously would come a hell of a lot cheaper.

[El Duderino]

what about Rizzo suggests he'll become anything close to the hitter Fielder is?

[Gilby]

 

Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT.

 

Well, hell, sign me up twice then. Good thing we didn't waste money on a fatty

He man, you avoid not getting locked into fatty money then you can afford the WORLD.

 

Seriously guys?

[Rob]

 

Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT.

 

Well, hell, sign me up twice then. Good thing we didn't waste money on a fatty

He man, you avoid not getting locked into fatty money then you can afford the WORLD.

 

Seriously guys?

 

Yeah, this is getting a bit silly... and not just because it's in the Darvish thread.

[USSoccer]

What's wrong with Ethier, other than he's evidently a prick towards some of his current teammates? He played hurt most of this past season and his 3 previous ones he had OPS'S of .885, .869, and .857. He'd be 31 at that point and could probably be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don't see a problem with him. He's not great defensively? That's not enough to bother me about him.

 

So you'd be okay giving a 31 year old Ethier a 4 year deal?

 

Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT.

You're getting me confused with someone else. My position on Prince has changed somewhat because Rizzo may be available and I really, really like his chances. And because we missed out on a bigtime pitcher. If Rizzo becomes what he's capable of, we'd have that much more cash to spend elsewhere. Along with I'm really starting to think Prince is getting 200 mill. I think he's an impact guy for sure. But I think Rizzo will be and obviously would come a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

And if I had $500 every time someone here ridiculed a finished product in favor of some prospect who's incredibly likely to not be anywhere near as good as people think, I'd be a hell of a lot richer and happier.

[Sammy Sofa]

What's wrong with Ethier, other than he's evidently a prick towards some of his current teammates? He played hurt most of this past season and his 3 previous ones he had OPS'S of .885, .869, and .857. He'd be 31 at that point and could probably be had on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don't see a problem with him. He's not great defensively? That's not enough to bother me about him.

 

So you'd be okay giving a 31 year old Ethier a 4 year deal?

 

Dude, you don't understand; HE'S NOT FAT.

You're getting me confused with someone else. My position on Prince has changed somewhat because Rizzo may be available and I really, really like his chances. And because we missed out on a bigtime pitcher. If Rizzo becomes what he's capable of, we'd have that much more cash to spend elsewhere. Along with I'm really starting to think Prince is getting 200 mill. I think he's an impact guy for sure. But I think Rizzo will be and obviously would come a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

And if I had $500 every time someone here ridiculed a finished product in favor of some prospect who's incredibly likely to not be anywhere near as good as people think, I'd be a hell of a lot richer and happier.

 

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

 

Come on, he's mashing in the PCL! The guy is all but a lock!

[Guest]

1) Has everyone already forgotten my requests about being nice around here?

 

2) I really don't like skipping the big names we've skipped. I have been a big believer in the parallel paths where we put out a winner now and build for the future. I've still got faith in management putting together a long term winner, but the next couple years look like they could be pretty painful.

[USSoccer]

1) Has everyone already forgotten my requests about being nice around here?

 

 

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

[davell]

I think everyone's stating their points. I certainly respect what's being said. I have no issue with Fielder either. I'm putting myself out on a limb and if I'm wrong on Rizzo, I'll own it. I'm not a scout, none of us are. I've been wrong before and I've been right as well. It is what it is. And whether I'm right or wrong here, if whatever it does works out, then I'm all for it anyway, as is anyone else reading through this.

[Gilby]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

[USSoccer]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

 

Well, then, by all means, lets suck for three years. You've convinced me.

[Sammy Sofa]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

 

It'll continue to be a bad time if they continually talk themselves out of singing impact FA because the first year they'll likely only be around .500 at best.

[USSoccer]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

 

It'll continue to be a bad time if they continually talk themselves out of singing impact FA because the first year they'll likely only be around .500 at best.

 

No, no. Let's let perfect be the enemy of good.

[davell]

I'm sure this has been asked, but at what price does Prince become better to stay away from? And I'm asking this, knowing that before Rizzo was possibly available and we still had a shot at Darvish, I would have cringed at 8/200, but would feel like we're going to be OK those last couple of years, because of the farm. So, is that the number or is it even higher now that every other star is gone now?

[Cubs Evangelist]

I'm sure this has been asked, but at what price does Prince become better to stay away from? And I'm asking this, knowing that before Rizzo was possibly available and we still had a shot at Darvish, I would have cringed at 8/200, but would feel like we're going to be OK those last couple of years, because of the farm. So, is that the number or is it even higher now that every other star is gone now?

 

To me personally it is the years, this isn't normal, but why not put a 6/170 contract in front of him, let him have option to hit FA again when he is 32 and have a chance to sign something like Albert did?

[abuck1220]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

 

good luck lining it up perfectly so that a 27 year old elite hitter at a position of need is available as a free agent EXACTLY when the cubs are going to be ready to compete. especially in an offseason when you are not competing against the pocketbooks of the yankees, red sox, mets, dodgers, angels, white sox, phillies, etc. especially in an offseason where the cubs have a ton of money coming off the books. especially in an offseason where the cardinals and brewers each lose elite hitters. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

ideally, yes, you would prefer a grand buffet of superstar free agents EXACTLY when the cubs are primed to be competing for a world series. however, this is living in a fantasy world.

[Gilby]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

 

good luck lining it up perfectly so that a 27 year old elite hitter at a position of need is available as a free agent EXACTLY when the cubs are going to be ready to compete. especially in an offseason when you are not competing against the pocketbooks of the yankees, red sox, mets, dodgers, angels, white sox, phillies, etc. especially in an offseason where the cubs have a ton of money coming off the books. especially in an offseason where the cardinals and brewers each lose elite hitters. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

ideally, yes, you would prefer a grand buffet of superstar free agents EXACTLY when the cubs are primed to be competing for a world series. however, this is living in a fantasy world.

 

There are always top of the rotation pitchers on the market. If there's a position player Theo and co. want to spend big money on in the future and that position isn't necessarily "open," then there can be a trade for different assets to create a spot for the FA.

[abuck1220]

or they can just sign fielder and not have to worry about that stuff.

[Rob]

No one is being mean, come on. If people can't handle their arguments getting some scrutiny, then their arguments probably should be better.

 

It's more than just about him being fat. It's about trying to match up his best years when we're going to be competitive. If we're signing him while accepting the fact that we still won't be much more than an 80 win team next season, then likely his best season as a Cub was just wasted. Also, a lot of posters seem okay with the thought that the end of the contract won't be great for Prince personally, so there's 2-3 wasted years of a huge contract. It's just a bad time.

 

But yes, fat players have shown more of a propensity to decline sooner.

 

Well, then, by all means, lets suck for three years. You've convinced me.

 

So, "there's a better way to spend that money" is the same thing as "let's suck for three years?"

 

Sign Edwin Jackson (3/$36?) and Hiroki Kuroda (2/$25?). Together, they should cost about the same as Prince will on an annual basis. Trade Z, Cashner, and Brett Jackson to the Marlins for Logan Morrison.

 

Fielder may be better than Morrison... at least in the short term. However, Jackson and Kuroda covers the gap pretty well when our 4/5 starter options is some disgusting mishmash of Z/Cashner/Coleman/Samardzija based on health, anger issues, and performance). There's significantly less risk and more long-term upside.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Rob

[weis21]

Yeah. To me it seems like it was a choice (either by the front office or one decided for them for monetary reasons) between Fielder or Darvish. I have to think Theo has a pretty good feeling Prince wants to come here and he has the offer in place to make that happen. I just simply can't wrap my mind around Theo coming here with the philosophy/budgetary constraints of essentially running the pirates. The backlash will be too great and I can't imagine he wants to endure that. I hope I'm not wrong.

 

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