Zambrano traded to Marlins for Chris Volstad (P. 8)

[Clem Fandango]

I was recently chatting with a friend of mine who is a Cubs fan living outside of Detroit, and apparently, Tigers fans are quickly losing patience with 22 year old Rick Porcello. Anyway, he was listening to a sports radio show and a caller suggested sending Porcello to the Cubs for Z and a prospect or 2 if the Cubs were willing to take on all or most of Zs salary. The shows host pretty much laughed the caller off.

 

I lost patience with Rick Porcello in my fantasy league. [expletive] that guy.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I was recently chatting with a friend of mine who is a Cubs fan living outside of Detroit, and apparently, Tigers fans are quickly losing patience with 22 year old Rick Porcello. Anyway, he was listening to a sports radio show and a caller suggested sending Porcello to the Cubs for Z and a prospect or 2 if the Cubs were willing to take on all or most of Zs salary. The shows host pretty much laughed the caller off.

 

I lost patience with Rick Porcello in my fantasy league. [expletive] that guy.

 

He's a former top prospect whose younger than many of our current top prospects. If there was a realistic way to get him, I'd be all for it.

[Clem Fandango]

I was recently chatting with a friend of mine who is a Cubs fan living outside of Detroit, and apparently, Tigers fans are quickly losing patience with 22 year old Rick Porcello. Anyway, he was listening to a sports radio show and a caller suggested sending Porcello to the Cubs for Z and a prospect or 2 if the Cubs were willing to take on all or most of Zs salary. The shows host pretty much laughed the caller off.

 

I lost patience with Rick Porcello in my fantasy league. [expletive] that guy.

 

He's a former top prospect whose younger than many of our current top prospects. If there was a realistic way to get him, I'd be all for it.

 

I would be, too. It's a smart baseball move. I was just being silly.

 

That being said, I do think he got rushed way too early. He skipped AA and AAA and came to the majors at the age of 20 and had success probably due largely in part to tams not having accurate scouting reports on him. While the league made adjustments, he apparently hasn't.

 

According to Fangraphs he throws a Fastball, Slider, Curveball, and Changeup. Those typically are strikeout pitches, yet he's not a strikeout pitcher. He has a terrible K/9 rate, but he doesn't throw pitches that are generally considered "pitch-to-contact" type pitches. And his average fastball velocity sits somewhere between 90-93. He pitches in one of the best pitchers parks in the majors and he's getting shelled. He's been a little unlucky this year, but he hasn't really taken the strides people were expecting him to take. He's taken several steps back and not forward and that's probably why people are growing tired of him and I can sympathize with that to a degree.

 

However he's only 22 and has a top of the line pedigree and people need to have patience with him. If the team is growing tired of his inability to perform they shouldn't trade the kid, they should send him back to the minors to hone his skills. I imagine he's got a crap load of options left given how little time he spent in the minors. Getting rid of him would be really dumb, and the Detroit fans who think they should do that are, by the power of deductive logic, really dumb.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I've been thinking of Porcello as an option too. If Porcello is available, the Cubs should try to land him, no ifs ands or buts. Biiiiig upside. I think he can be a good one in the mold of Carpenter and Wainwright...two seam/curveball, lots of groundballs, good K rates, and efficient. He's a ways off from that, but at 22 so were both Carpenter and Wainwright.

 

Perfect scenario of buying low on big talent...

[Outshined_One]

I've been thinking of Porcello as an option too. If Porcello is available, the Cubs should try to land him, no ifs ands or buts. Biiiiig upside. I think he can be a good one in the mold of Carpenter and Wainwright...two seam/curveball, lots of groundballs, good K rates, and efficient. He's a ways off from that, but at 22 so were both Carpenter and Wainwright.

 

Perfect scenario of buying low on big talent...

 

Detroit has a bunch of pitchers who've fit that bill over the years. They have done an incredibly awful job of rushing their top pitching prospect (Porcello, Miller, Oliver, and Turner all come immediately to mind) to the point that it's clearly been a detriment to those guys.

 

If the Cubs can somehow trade Zambrano for someone like Porcello, I'll proclaim our new GM a miracle worker.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I've been thinking of Porcello as an option too. If Porcello is available, the Cubs should try to land him, no ifs ands or buts. Biiiiig upside. I think he can be a good one in the mold of Carpenter and Wainwright...two seam/curveball, lots of groundballs, good K rates, and efficient. He's a ways off from that, but at 22 so were both Carpenter and Wainwright.

 

Perfect scenario of buying low on big talent...

 

Detroit has a bunch of pitchers who've fit that bill over the years. They have done an incredibly awful job of rushing their top pitching prospect (Porcello, Miller, Oliver, and Turner all come immediately to mind) to the point that it's clearly been a detriment to those guys.

 

If the Cubs can somehow trade Zambrano for someone like Porcello, I'll proclaim our new GM a miracle worker.

 

I actually would not mind bringing in Andrew Miller if the Red Sox don't retain him after the season (they probably will the bahstids).

[Little Slide Rooter]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/New-York-Yankees-Burnett-Girardi-wastes-chance-to-earn-credibility-082111

 

I'm sure some money would have to change hands, but Burnett could be the best we could hope for if The Yanks are interested.

[biittner77]

Has Zambrano cleared waivers? I would assume he has but then you never know.

 

edit mlbtrade rumors says so in OP #-o

 

Has Burnett cleared waivers? Would the Yankees like Reed Johnson thrown in?

Edited August 26, 2011 by biittner77

[SouthSideRyan]

Has Zambrano cleared waivers? I would assume he has but then you never know.

 

If he hadn't, he'd be gone.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Has Zambrano cleared waivers? I would assume he has but then you never know.

 

edit mlbtrade rumors says so in OP #-o

 

Has Burnett cleared waivers? Would the Yankees like Reed Johnson thrown in?

 

I really don't think Johnson would clear waivers. I'm sure somebody will translate this as me saying we'll get a top prospect for him, but all I'm saying is as cheap as Reed is and as productive as he's been, he'd probably be plucked by one of the first NL contenders on the wire.

[MSG T]

What kind of money changing hands would everyone be good with if they exchanged Z for Burnett. From what Cots showed, the Cubs would saved $2.5 mil next year, but be on the hook for an extra $16.5 in 2013. Basically, how much would the Yankees have to kick in to do that deal?

 

They've been similar this year, both have a WAR of 1.1, but I'd rather not be on the hook for $16.5 for Burnett the following year. If the Yanks kicked in enough that it evened the money out, looks like $7.5 mil, would that be enough? I still don't think I'd do it, I'd rather have Z's money coming off after next year. Just wondering what anyone else thought.

[WrigleyField 22]

What kind of money changing hands would everyone be good with if they exchanged Z for Burnett. From what Cots showed, the Cubs would saved $2.5 mil next year, but be on the hook for an extra $16.5 in 2013. Basically, how much would the Yankees have to kick in to do that deal?

 

They've been similar this year, both have a WAR of 1.1, but I'd rather not be on the hook for $16.5 for Burnett the following year. If the Yanks kicked in enough that it evened the money out, looks like $7.5 mil, would that be enough? I still don't think I'd do it, I'd rather have Z's money coming off after next year. Just wondering what anyone else thought.

I'm not really interested in any Z deal that extends our financial commitment in years or overall value. Would rather just eat the cost and have more money to spend in 2012 FA.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Heres another name I'm going to throw out there, though it won't be a popular one: Chone Figgins. Yeah, he's been beyond awful in his time with the Mariners, but again, if the Cubs insist on moving Z, you need to get something in return, and it won't be cash or top or eve good prospects. The moneys pretty even. Z: 18 mil '12, 8 mil buyout '13. Figgins is 8 mil each in '12 and '13 and 9 mil vesting option for '14(if he can rack up 600 AB in '13). With MIlton Bradley, the Ms have shown that they'll take a chance on a head case.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Heres another name I'm going to throw out there, though it won't be a popular one: Chone Figgins. Yeah, he's been beyond awful in his time with the Mariners, but again, if the Cubs insist on moving Z, you need to get something in return, and it won't be cash or top or eve good prospects. The moneys pretty even. Z: 18 mil '12, 8 mil buyout '13. Figgins is 8 mil each in '12 and '13 and 9 mil vesting option for '14(if he can rack up 600 AB in '13). With MIlton Bradley, the Ms have shown that they'll take a chance on a head case.

 

Figgins wouldn't be a bad pick up IMO. He's capable of throwing up a good offensive season and would give them a real option if Ramirez doesn't come back.

 

I thought when they drafted DeVoss they kind of hinted they want to introduce Figgins type athletes/players into the system.

[dew1679666265]

Is there really any upside to Figgins anymore? In the past two years he's posted a .646 and .484 OPS (.302 and .218 wOBA) and has been worth a cumulative -.1 WAR. He'll be 34 at the start of next season and speed and athleticism are his only real weapons.

 

He probably wouldn't repeat this year's abysmal numbers, but I'm not sure how confident I am he'd match his 2010 numbers at this point. If they're that insistent on giving Z away, I'd rather just cut him and have the extra roster spot for a potentially productive player.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Is there really any upside to Figgins anymore? In the past two years he's posted a .646 and .484 OPS (.302 and .218 wOBA) and has been worth a cumulative -.1 WAR. He'll be 34 at the start of next season and speed and athleticism are his only real weapons.

 

He probably wouldn't repeat this year's abysmal numbers, but I'm not sure how confident I am he'd match his 2010 numbers at this point. If they're that insistent on giving Z away, I'd rather just cut him and have the extra roster spot for a potentially productive player.

 

Theres certainly more upside then letting him walk for nothing.

[dew1679666265]

Is there really any upside to Figgins anymore? In the past two years he's posted a .646 and .484 OPS (.302 and .218 wOBA) and has been worth a cumulative -.1 WAR. He'll be 34 at the start of next season and speed and athleticism are his only real weapons.

 

He probably wouldn't repeat this year's abysmal numbers, but I'm not sure how confident I am he'd match his 2010 numbers at this point. If they're that insistent on giving Z away, I'd rather just cut him and have the extra roster spot for a potentially productive player.

 

Theres certainly more upside then letting him walk for nothing.

 

Is there? We could call up LeMaheieu or Marwin Gonzalez and get better production than Figgins has had since 2009, plus with actual upside. I'm not exactly pulling for us to simply cut Z, in fact I'm opposed to dealing him period unless we get something of value for him, but I don't see the upside to trading a productive pitcher for a guy who will do nothing but take up a roster spot.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Hahahahaha, Chone Figgins? Hahahahahaha.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Is there really any upside to Figgins anymore? In the past two years he's posted a .646 and .484 OPS (.302 and .218 wOBA) and has been worth a cumulative -.1 WAR. He'll be 34 at the start of next season and speed and athleticism are his only real weapons.

 

He probably wouldn't repeat this year's abysmal numbers, but I'm not sure how confident I am he'd match his 2010 numbers at this point. If they're that insistent on giving Z away, I'd rather just cut him and have the extra roster spot for a potentially productive player.

 

Theres certainly more upside then letting him walk for nothing.

 

Is there? We could call up LeMaheieu or Marwin Gonzalez and get better production than Figgins has had since 2009, plus with actual upside. I'm not exactly pulling for us to simply cut Z, in fact I'm opposed to dealing him period unless we get something of value for him, but I don't see the upside to trading a productive pitcher for a guy who will do nothing but take up a roster spot.

 

But that's how these types of things work. You get their cast off, they get yours and you hope for the best. It's not like we actually wanted Carlos Silva in the winter of 2010, but he was the best thing anyone offered. Again, it's better than letting Z walk for nothing. My personal preference is to get over it and keep Z around. Assuming we can get CJ Wilson or something of the like, I'm sure a lot of teams out there would like Z as a 4th starter.

[dew1679666265]

But that's how these types of things work. You get their cast off, they get yours and you hope for the best. It's not like we actually wanted Carlos Silva in the winter of 2010, but he was the best thing anyone offered. Again, it's better than letting Z walk for nothing. My personal preference is to get over it and keep Z around. Assuming we can get CJ Wilson or something of the like, I'm sure a lot of teams out there would like Z as a 4th starter.

 

I understand how these types of trades work, but the fact is you're still trading a productive pitcher (Z) for a completely unproductive middle infielder playing third base (Figgins). There is very little to no indication that Figgins is even going to be up to his 2010 standards, much less be of any real value to the team. With Silva there was some reason to think that with a good pitching coach he had the stuff to become at least a mediocre pitcher. Figgins is a 34 year old guy who's never had power, has lost all his patience, and is getting to the point where speed and athleticism will not help him at all.

 

There simply is no upside whatsoever to bringing in Figgins and by giving Z away for him, you tie up a roster space that could be better given to a young guy who has some upside (LeMaheieu or Marwin).

[Little Slide Rooter]

But that's how these types of things work. You get their cast off, they get yours and you hope for the best. It's not like we actually wanted Carlos Silva in the winter of 2010, but he was the best thing anyone offered. Again, it's better than letting Z walk for nothing. My personal preference is to get over it and keep Z around. Assuming we can get CJ Wilson or something of the like, I'm sure a lot of teams out there would like Z as a 4th starter.

 

I understand how these types of trades work, but the fact is you're still trading a productive pitcher (Z) for a completely unproductive middle infielder playing third base (Figgins). There is very little to no indication that Figgins is even going to be up to his 2010 standards, much less be of any real value to the team. With Silva there was some reason to think that with a good pitching coach he had the stuff to become at least a mediocre pitcher. Figgins is a 34 year old guy who's never had power, has lost all his patience, and is getting to the point where speed and athleticism will not help him at all.

 

There simply is no upside whatsoever to bringing in Figgins and by giving Z away for him, you tie up a roster space that could be better given to a young guy who has some upside (LeMaheieu or Marwin).

 

I absolutely agree with your thinking, but much like with the Bradley situation, if they've made the decision that Z can no longer be a part of the ball club, there's nothing that any of us can do about it. The reason I think that Figgins a is logical option is that the money is very similar and we've already done a similar type of swap with the Ms. There arent many options. Even when you go over the bad contract pool, most of them either have more money or more years on them, and it really doesn't make sense to swap him for a worse player with a worse contract.

[EhDubya]

 

I thought when they drafted DeVoss they kind of hinted they want to introduce Figgins type athletes/players into the system.

 

I thought when they drafted Baez they kind of hinted they want to introduce Hanley Ramirez type athletes/players into the system. I thought when they drafted Vogelbach they kind of hinted they want to introduce Fielder type athletes/players into the system. I thought when they drafted Sczuzr they kind of hinted they want to introduce Pierre type athletes/players into the system. I thought when they drafted Maples they kind of hinted they want to introduce Halladay type athletes/players into the system. etc.

[Guest]

 

I thought when they drafted DeVoss they kind of hinted they want to introduce Figgins type athletes/players into the system.

I thought when they drafted Sczuzr they kind of hinted they want to introduce Pierre type athletes/players into the system.

Resisting urge to scream out loud...

[mul21]

 

I thought when they drafted DeVoss they kind of hinted they want to introduce Figgins type athletes/players into the system.

I thought when they drafted Sczuzr they kind of hinted they want to introduce Pierre type athletes/players into the system.

Resisting urge to scream out loud...

 

I didn't really think he needed green font as absurd as the whole post was........

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

 

I thought when they drafted DeVoss they kind of hinted they want to introduce Figgins type athletes/players into the system.

 

I thought when they drafted Baez they kind of hinted they want to introduce Hanley Ramirez type athletes/players into the system. I thought when they drafted Vogelbach they kind of hinted they want to introduce Fielder type athletes/players into the system. I thought when they drafted Sczuzr they kind of hinted they want to introduce Pierre type athletes/players into the system. I thought when they drafted Maples they kind of hinted they want to introduce Halladay type athletes/players into the system. etc.

 

That was useful and necessary. Juan Pierre?