Front Office Concerned About Spending Big $ on One Player

[sneakypower]

this is good thinking

 

i mean, the Teixeira and Sabathia contracts have just killed the Yankees

[erik316wttn]

Yeah, but nobody cares about you.

 

And nobody cares what you want. That works both ways.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Yeah, but nobody cares about you.

 

And nobody cares what you want. That works both ways.

 

Oh boy, good bye thread.

[davearm2]

What a complete non-story. Of course there's concern.

[imb]

Yeah, but nobody cares about you.

 

And nobody cares what you want. That works both ways.

 

thanks for popping in

[Clem Fandango]

Just mentioned: In some important corners of the Cubs' front office, there is concern about whether or not they should try and win.

 

Fixed

[Elwood]

this is good thinking

 

i mean, the Teixeira and Sabathia contracts have just killed the Yankees

 

They're also paying A.J. effin' Burnett 16.5M per year.

 

The Cubs have been burned by their last two mega deals, of course they're going to be concerned moving forward.

 

I don't get the "do what ever it takes to sign them" mentality.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't get the "do what ever it takes to sign them" mentality.

 

Organizational lack of impact bats in majors and minors

Hole at 1b next year

Tons of money coming off the books

Two impact bat 1b on the market, with few major markets besides us needing them, both of them coming from major divisional rivals who would be in big trouble without them

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

this is good thinking

 

i mean, the Teixeira and Sabathia contracts have just killed the Yankees

 

They're also paying A.J. effin' Burnett 16.5M per year.

 

The Cubs have been burned by their last two mega deals, of course they're going to be concerned moving forward.

 

I don't get the "do what ever it takes to sign them" mentality.

 

The mentality is there because either one significantly improves this team. In Fielders case the Cubs would get his prime.

[Little Slide Rooter]

this is good thinking

 

i mean, the Teixeira and Sabathia contracts have just killed the Yankees

 

They're also paying A.J. effin' Burnett 16.5M per year.

 

The Cubs have been burned by their last two mega deals, of course they're going to be concerned moving forward.

 

I don't get the "do what ever it takes to sign them" mentality.

 

The problem with comparing the Cubs to the Yankees and Red Sox is that the Yanks and Sox also have a habit of producing really good players from their farm system, so when they overpay for a dud, it's not as big of a deal.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The problem with comparing the Cubs to the Yankees and Red Sox is that the Yanks and Sox also have a habit of producing really good players from their farm system, so when they overpay for a dud, it's not as big of a deal.

 

If/when Jackson takes over CF, we'll have our entire up-the-middle be pre-FA, homegrown players.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The problem with comparing the Cubs to the Yankees and Red Sox is that the Yanks and Sox also have a habit of producing really good players from their farm system, so when they overpay for a dud, it's not as big of a deal.

 

If/when Jackson takes over CF, we'll have our entire up-the-middle be pre-FA, homegrown players.

 

And if they can become the players that Robinson Cano, Derrek Jeter, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youklis, or Jacoby Ellsbury are, that will be super.

[jersey cubs fan]

The problem with comparing the Cubs to the Yankees and Red Sox is that the Yanks and Sox also have a habit of producing really good players from their farm system, so when they overpay for a dud, it's not as big of a deal.

 

If/when Jackson takes over CF, we'll have our entire up-the-middle be pre-FA, homegrown players.

 

Maybe. It's no sure thing he'll take over, let alone for good, next year. 2B remains a work in progress and by the time he settles in Soto will be approaching free agency and may have a somewhat tenuous grip on the position.

[davearm2]

I don't get the "do what ever it takes to sign them" mentality.

 

Organizational lack of impact bats in majors and minors

Hole at 1b next year

Tons of money coming off the books

Two impact bat 1b on the market, with few major markets besides us needing them, both of them coming from major divisional rivals who would be in big trouble without them

Those divisional rivals might be in even bigger trouble if they keep them and they eat up 1/4 of their payroll.

 

I've said a few times: the Cards benefited tremendously from Pujols' underpaid, superstar years. Now let them suffer through his overpaid, decline years.

[mookie]

Maybe we should try to trade the Marlins for LoMo. You think Hendry could swing that? Yeah, neither do I...

[kujay]

I don't get the "do what ever it takes to sign them" mentality.

 

Organizational lack of impact bats in majors and minors

Hole at 1b next year

Tons of money coming off the books

Two impact bat 1b on the market, with few major markets besides us needing them, both of them coming from major divisional rivals who would be in big trouble without them

Those divisional rivals might be in even bigger trouble if they keep them and they eat up 1/4 of their payroll.

 

I've said a few times: the Cards benefited tremendously from Pujols' underpaid, superstar years. Now let them suffer through his overpaid, decline years.

 

I totally agree with you on Pujols. But that thinking doesn't extend at all to Fielder.

 

This is the offseason for Ricketts to show that he cares about winning. Can Hendry the day after the season -- hell, he should already be thinking about a new GM -- and let that GM hire a new manager.

[UMFan83]

126

110

93

80

78

74

53

 

Those are the OPS+ numbers of the non-Pujols regulars on the 2006 Cardinals. Despite that, the Cardinals finished 6th in the NL in R/G. If you can sign an impact bat that has the ability to pick up the slack of an entire offense like that, I think you have to go for it, even if its a risk due to age. If he starts a heavy decline 4 years into the contract, you at least have 3/4ths of that salary coming off the books in the form of Soriano's contract. And for Pujols, "heavy decline" probably puts him at the level Soriano was the first 2 years of his Cubs contract.

 

The Cubs can afford to deal with one really bad contract on their books, and honestly looking at the careers of generational players like Pujols, it is highly unlikely that Pujols descends into Soriano territory even in the final years of his contract.

[kujay]

I would be fine with Pujols if convinced the team wouldn't cry poor and blame the latter years of his contract for not spending on other players. It's pretty clear Ricketts has no intention of being the Red Sox or Yankees (or Phillies at this point), which is the real problem here. After all this losing, you buy this team in this market and you have an obligation to do what needs to be done. And thus far I'm not seeing it.

[SouthSideRyan]

What should the Cubs have spent money on under Ricketts?

[kujay]

What should the Cubs have spent money on under Ricketts?

 

Were there no SPs out there that would have beefed up the rotation so that maybe when injuries happened they wouldn't be so screwed?

 

Aren't they cutting back the payroll significantly? Is that all part of the master plan or are they just pinching pennies? If they are saving up to spend this offseason, then that makes sense.

 

I'll grant you that I'm reserving my full judgment to see what happens this offseason.

[UMFan83]

OPS+ at age 38:

 

Ruth: 175

Williams: 233

Musial: 121

Aaron: 147

Mays: 124

F. Robinson: 141

Griffey: 119

Brett: 101

Schmidt: 112

 

Average (taking out the outliers): 134

 

If Pujols is giving us a 134 OPS+ at age 38, I think most of us would live with that. Obviously its a gamble, but history has shown that a majority of the best hitters in baseball history have played well well into their late 30s

[UMFan83]

I would be fine with Pujols if convinced the team wouldn't cry poor and blame the latter years of his contract for not spending on other players. It's pretty clear Ricketts has no intention of being the Red Sox or Yankees (or Phillies at this point), which is the real problem here. After all this losing, you buy this team in this market and you have an obligation to do what needs to be done. And thus far I'm not seeing it.

 

And as I said above, a key thing to point out is that Soriano's contract would come off the books 4 years into Pujols' deal. Even if Pujols all the sudden started breaking down and turned into the later part of Griffey's career, the Cubs would not be strapped for cash. The only reason the Cubs had such a dire situation the previous couple of years is because of a flurry of high priced 30-some players the Cubs signed back between 2006-2008 where Zambrano, Dempster, Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Lilly were all signed to 3+ year contracts all making 8 figures annually. And out of all those contracts, there is not one ace quality pitcher or one dominant .950+ OPS hitter gained from all that money thrown out. Assuming the Cubs don't go 0% in spending money for premiere talent, and assuming the Cubs space out the handing out of huge contracts, hypothetically there should never be an issue where the Cubs are both crappy and cash strapped at the same time. But then again, these are the Cubs we're talking about.

[Tarver]

I would be fine with Pujols if convinced the team wouldn't cry poor and blame the latter years of his contract for not spending on other players. It's pretty clear Ricketts has no intention of being the Red Sox or Yankees (or Phillies at this point), which is the real problem here. After all this losing, you buy this team in this market and you have an obligation to do what needs to be done. And thus far I'm not seeing it.

 

And as I said above, a key thing to point out is that Soriano's contract would come off the books 4 years into Pujols' deal. Even if Pujols all the sudden started breaking down and turned into the later part of Griffey's career, the Cubs would not be strapped for cash. The only reason the Cubs had such a dire situation the previous couple of years is because of a flurry of high priced 30-some players the Cubs signed back between 2006-2008 where Zambrano, Dempster, Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Lilly were all signed to 3+ year contracts all making 8 figures annually. And out of all those contracts, there is not one ace quality pitcher or one dominant .950+ OPS hitter gained from all that money thrown out. Assuming the Cubs don't go 0% in spending money for premiere talent, and assuming the Cubs space out the handing out of huge contracts, hypothetically there should never be an issue where the Cubs are both crappy and cash strapped at the same time. But then again, these are the Cubs we're talking about.

 

I wouldn't include Demp, Lee, or Lilly in that list. Those contracts were all at or below market and pretty much turned out in our favor. The point about timing stands. The lack of cost-controlled contributors outside of Soto and Marmol killed us.

[Guest]

What should the Cubs have spent money on under Ricketts?

 

Were there no SPs out there that would have beefed up the rotation so that maybe when injuries happened they wouldn't be so screwed?

 

If they had signed someone to a good sized contract then they would have either blocked Cashner or moved Wells to the pen after a good season as a SP. Silva and Gorzelanny didn't just run away either, and I don't think money was the overriding factor in trading either of them.

[SouthSideRyan]

What should the Cubs have spent money on under Ricketts?

 

Were there no SPs out there that would have beefed up the rotation so that maybe when injuries happened they wouldn't be so screwed?

 

Aren't they cutting back the payroll significantly? Is that all part of the master plan or are they just pinching pennies? If they are saving up to spend this offseason, then that makes sense.

 

I'll grant you that I'm reserving my full judgment to see what happens this offseason.

 

I don't think there's any evidence that the Cubs didn't sign another starter due to monetary concerns. If they wanted Cashner in the rotation (as they should) to start the year, who did you want replaced in the rotation before the season started?