Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-22-11

[idakepps]

Speaking of walks, Dong Yub Kim with his first career walk.

 

 

He's starting to hit pretty well. Also nice to see the walk.

[XZero771679666304]

Yeah, god forbid we want to see players developed who can discern good pitches to swing at from bad ones, making the pitcher get them out instead of getting themselves out. It's not like working counts is what almost all the best hitters in the game do or anything.

 

I guess since the hack first mentality has worked so beautifully for the big league squad, we should keep encouraging the kids to flail away.

[idakepps]

Speaking of walks, Dong Yub Kim with his first career walk.

 

He's starting to hit too. Good numbers over the last 10 days or so.

[TruffleShuffle]

Speaking of walks, Dong Yub Kim with his first career walk.

 

He's starting to hit too. Good numbers over the last 10 days or so.

 

i noticed that he DH's a LOT, and raisin posted an excerpt from an AzPhil scouting report that said the donger might be the worst fielding OF he's ever seen.

[CyHawk_Cub]

So walks lead to fewer runs being scored??? Ummm....okaaaay :roll:

[KingCubsFan]

Why did Nelson Perez get sent back down? He wasn't doing terrible in AA. If they don't think he can handle upper level pitching, they might as well stop wasting time and convert him.

[toonsterwu]

I imagine he was shifted to get him more AB's.

[abohnhoff]

Everybody's favorite, Darwin Barney, has 10 walks this year. It is possible to be a productive ML'er without taking a boatload of walks.

 

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

[SouthSideRyan]

And if Vitters would stop swinging at balls, he'd drive the ball better, and have a better shot at being a middle of the order producer.

[XZero771679666304]

And if Vitters would stop swinging at balls, he'd drive the ball better, and have a better shot at being a middle of the order producer.

 

This is also the only thing Starlin needs to overcome to become truly elite. Just because you can put the bat on the ball doesn't make it a good pitch to swing at. Like Castro, Vitters has good contact skills, but apparently swings at balls he can't drive. Laying off those pitches leads to walks, but it also forces pitchers to throw more hittable pitches, which will lead to more power and production.

 

More high profile examples would be Sammy Sosa and Alfonso Soriano. People think steroids, but the bigger part of what turned Sosa from an average slugger into a monster was that he started laying off the pitches that he had been getting himself out on, leading to him getting better pitches to hit. The steroids helped, but they wouldn't have mattered if he had kept flailing away.

 

And what kind of hitter would Soriano be if he simply took 90% of the pitches he sees that are off the plate low and away? Unfortunately, we'll likely never know.

 

And Barney is the flavor of the month, but his lack of patience really reduces his value.

 

This is all pretty obvious stuff, really. I think the problem is that some people think others are saying walks are the desired result. Walks are simply thy byproduct of being selective, which leads to across the board improvement.

[Outshined_One]

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

[utkcub]

went to the iowa cubs game in nashville last night, dave bush just plain sucks. Brett Jackson and Tyler Colvin were atrocious at the plate. After Brett's third strike out I might have left him know he was going for the golden sombrero... then Chris Robinson promptly told me to shut up and had a few choice words from the bullpen. Colvin blows, Jackson finally got a hit in the final at-bat

[Rob]

Everybody's favorite, Darwin Barney, has 10 walks this year. It is possible to be a productive ML'er without taking a boatload of walks.

 

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

 

The average major league 2B this season has hit .255/.316/.379

 

Barney is at .300/.328/.369

 

In other words, because of Barney's lack of plate discipline and power, he's only managed to be an average 2B despite his .300 batting average. So yeah, it's possible to be a productive ML player... but you aren't going to find many stars without real secondary skills.

[EhDubya]

went to the iowa cubs game in nashville last night, dave bush just plain sucks. Brett Jackson and Tyler Colvin were atrocious at the plate. After Brett's third strike out I might have left him know he was going for the golden sombrero... then Chris Robinson promptly told me to shut up and had a few choice words from the bullpen. Colvin blows, Jackson finally got a hit in the final at-bat

 

You sound awesome.

[Tryptamine]

went to the iowa cubs game in nashville last night, dave bush just plain sucks. Brett Jackson and Tyler Colvin were atrocious at the plate. After Brett's third strike out I might have left him know he was going for the golden sombrero... then Chris Robinson promptly told me to shut up and had a few choice words from the bullpen. Colvin blows, Jackson finally got a hit in the final at-bat

 

You sound awesome.

 

Seriously, who heckles their own team's prospects?

[Illini Iceman]

Everybody's favorite, Darwin Barney, has 10 walks this year. It is possible to be a productive ML'er without taking a boatload of walks.

 

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

 

The average major league 2B this season has hit .255/.316/.379

 

Barney is at .300/.328/.369

 

In other words, because of Barney's lack of plate discipline and power, he's only managed to be an average 2B despite his .300 batting average. So yeah, it's possible to be a productive ML player... but you aren't going to find many stars without real secondary skills.

 

I don't think you will find many people (especially around here) too happy if Vitters winds up being a comp to Darwin Barney so not sure why it is relevant to be using him as an example of how Vitters can be successful without taking walks.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Everybody's favorite, Darwin Barney, has 10 walks this year. It is possible to be a productive ML'er without taking a boatload of walks.

 

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

 

The average major league 2B this season has hit .255/.316/.379

 

Barney is at .300/.328/.369

 

In other words, because of Barney's lack of plate discipline and power, he's only managed to be an average 2B despite his .300 batting average. So yeah, it's possible to be a productive ML player... but you aren't going to find many stars without real secondary skills.

 

I don't think you will find many people (especially around here) too happy if Vitters winds up being a comp to Darwin Barney so not sure why it is relevant to be using him as an example of how Vitters can be successful without taking walks.

 

Thank you....that's what I was thinking too. Yeah, Darwin Barney production out of a corner position sounds, well, terrible. Especially if it's 1st base (as it seems likely he won't stick at 3rd).

[mul21]

Everybody's favorite, Darwin Barney, has 10 walks this year. It is possible to be a productive ML'er without taking a boatload of walks.

 

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

 

The average major league 2B this season has hit .255/.316/.379

 

Barney is at .300/.328/.369

 

In other words, because of Barney's lack of plate discipline and power, he's only managed to be an average 2B despite his .300 batting average. So yeah, it's possible to be a productive ML player... but you aren't going to find many stars without real secondary skills.

 

I don't think you will find many people (especially around here) too happy if Vitters winds up being a comp to Darwin Barney so not sure why it is relevant to be using him as an example of how Vitters can be successful without taking walks.

 

Thank you....that's what I was thinking too. Yeah, Darwin Barney production out of a corner position sounds, well, terrible. Especially if it's 1st base (as it seems likely he won't stick at 3rd).

 

Double whoosh!

 

That wasn't anything close to a comparison, just an illustration of how a lack of secondary skills (i.e. patience) will result in average/below average production in spite of a good batting average. Which is where it appears Vitters may be headed at this point. He's obviously going to hit for a lot more power than Barney, but if his IsoD never gets above .030, he's not going to be nearly as dangerous/productive as his contact skills give him the potential to be.

[Illini Iceman]

Everybody's favorite, Darwin Barney, has 10 walks this year. It is possible to be a productive ML'er without taking a boatload of walks.

 

You guys can fret about Vitters lack of walks all you want, I will continue to look at the lack of middle of the order offensive production.

 

The average major league 2B this season has hit .255/.316/.379

 

Barney is at .300/.328/.369

 

In other words, because of Barney's lack of plate discipline and power, he's only managed to be an average 2B despite his .300 batting average. So yeah, it's possible to be a productive ML player... but you aren't going to find many stars without real secondary skills.

 

I don't think you will find many people (especially around here) too happy if Vitters winds up being a comp to Darwin Barney so not sure why it is relevant to be using him as an example of how Vitters can be successful without taking walks.

 

Thank you....that's what I was thinking too. Yeah, Darwin Barney production out of a corner position sounds, well, terrible. Especially if it's 1st base (as it seems likely he won't stick at 3rd).

 

Double whoosh!

 

That wasn't anything close to a comparison, just an illustration of how a lack of secondary skills (i.e. patience) will result in average/below average production in spite of a good batting average. Which is where it appears Vitters may be headed at this point. He's obviously going to hit for a lot more power than Barney, but if his IsoD never gets above .030, he's not going to be nearly as dangerous/productive as his contact skills give him the potential to be.

 

While what you say probably is true I don't see anything in the original post (which I was responding to) that comes even close to making any of those points.