Carlos Pena Trade Candidate

[dew1679666265]

Yeah, sorry, you aren't making any sense. "Holding onto him because you don't like the offers is a bad idea but it could be a good idea to hold onto him to see if you can get better offers."

 

If the reasoning is that we want to keep him because we might decide in January or February that we want to bring him back, then not trading him makes no sense.

 

Who says that decision will only be made in January. It could be made for you before then.

 

As SSR said, the chances are right around 0% that the Brewers will have the money to re-sign Fielder and once he hits the open market, Boras will have him string out the bidding as long as possible. The earliest possible chance the Cubs might fall out of the Fielder running would be mid-late December and, by then, Pena will have been on the open market for a month or more.

 

And all that is assuming the Cards randomly decide to pay Pujols $10 mil a year more than they were offering or Pujols decides, out of the blue, to take a huge discount from what he was demanding before the year. There's a chance that happens, there's far less of a chance that Fielder never hits the open market.

[KingCubsFan]

Is there any chance the Cubs offer him arbitration and get a pick or 2 of guys they like/need? That seems like a better option than trading him for guys who you have no use for.

I don't think he's a type A. And there's no reason to hang on to Pena past the waiver deadline. Maybe the prospects work out, maybe they don't, but there's no reason to pass up a chance to add depth to a pretty thin farm system so we *may* have a better chance of resigning him. Pena isn't terrible, but if we don't add Pujols or Fielder in the offseason, there's a pretty good chance we'll be bad again.

 

The Cubs do not lack depth in the system. They lack quality.

That's debateable, but either way, it makes no sense for one of the worst teams in baseball to hold onto an older player about to be a free agent. The Cubs' ability to compete next year has nothing to do with Carlos Pena, so getting a mythical edge in resigning him doesn't do much for me.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is there any chance the Cubs offer him arbitration and get a pick or 2 of guys they like/need? That seems like a better option than trading him for guys who you have no use for.

I don't think he's a type A. And there's no reason to hang on to Pena past the waiver deadline. Maybe the prospects work out, maybe they don't, but there's no reason to pass up a chance to add depth to a pretty thin farm system so we *may* have a better chance of resigning him. Pena isn't terrible, but if we don't add Pujols or Fielder in the offseason, there's a pretty good chance we'll be bad again.

 

The Cubs do not lack depth in the system. They lack quality.

That's debateable,

 

It really isn't.

[jersey cubs fan]

As SSR said, the chances are right around 0% that the Brewers will have the money to re-sign Fielder .

 

Or he could get hurt tomorrow and be worthless.

 

 

 

There's no reason to trade Pena just to get more filler, doing so because it is the highest offer is dumb.

[mul21]

Is there any chance the Cubs offer him arbitration and get a pick or 2 of guys they like/need? That seems like a better option than trading him for guys who you have no use for.

I don't think he's a type A. And there's no reason to hang on to Pena past the waiver deadline. Maybe the prospects work out, maybe they don't, but there's no reason to pass up a chance to add depth to a pretty thin farm system so we *may* have a better chance of resigning him. Pena isn't terrible, but if we don't add Pujols or Fielder in the offseason, there's a pretty good chance we'll be bad again.

 

The Cubs do not lack depth in the system. They lack quality.

That's debateable,

 

It really isn't.

 

No, it really isn't. There's a ton of potential major leaguers in the system but nobody who's even close to being a sure fire .900 OPS guy for 10 years.

[dew1679666265]

As SSR said, the chances are right around 0% that the Brewers will have the money to re-sign Fielder .

 

Or he could get hurt tomorrow and be worthless.

 

 

 

There's no reason to trade Pena just to get more filler, doing so because it is the highest offer is dumb.

 

You're talking like Pena is some irreplaceable key to the Cubs' contention in 2012. He's at best option #3 entering the offseason and could lower than that and there are multiple guys who are likely to be available who can, in one season, give us similar production to what Pena could.

 

Why is it bad to add more potential cheap production when the only other option is to get no potential cheap production at all?

[SouthSideRyan]

As SSR said, the chances are right around 0% that the Brewers will have the money to re-sign Fielder .

 

Or he could get hurt tomorrow and be worthless.

 

 

 

There's no reason to trade Pena just to get more filler, doing so because it is the highest offer is dumb.

 

The possibility that Price Fielder shatters his femur isn't reason enough to hold on to Carlos Pena.

[dew1679666265]

No, it really isn't. There's a ton of potential major leaguers in the system but nobody who's even close to being a sure fire .900 OPS guy for 10 years.

 

Yeah, I'll agree with you and gooney there - the Cubs' system has a lot of depth. That doesn't mean we shouldn't add more, though.

[CubColtPacer]

It seems to be that the entire premise is that the prospects in the Lee trade were nothing more than organizational filler. And I really don't think that was the case. Lopez after the Garza trade was the 15th best prospect in the Cubs system. He's pretty much killed his value this season, but he was a raw pitcher with considerable projection. If the Cubs can get a better version of him and a couple other guys for Pena then they should take it.

[Guest]

As SSR said, the chances are right around 0% that the Brewers will have the money to re-sign Fielder .

 

Or he could get hurt tomorrow and be worthless.

 

 

 

There's no reason to trade Pena just to get more filler, doing so because it is the highest offer is dumb.

I don't see what's hard to understand about that. If the best offer isn't what the Cubs feel like he's worth, then they shouldn't trade him.

 

Who really cares about what happens in the offseason? The chances the Cubs can get Fielder or Albert shouldn't affect Pena right now. Anyway Boras is Pena's (I always think Peena when I write his name, now that I've been listening to Moreland for half a season. Why doesn't someone correct him? But I digress) agent, and he trying to get Pena a longer term deal this offseason, I don't think the Cubs should even consider resigning him to a longer term deal.

[dew1679666265]

It seems to be that the entire premise is that the prospects in the Lee trade were nothing more than organizational filler. And I really don't think that was the case. Lopez after the Garza trade was the 15th best prospect in the Cubs system. He's pretty much killed his value this season, but he was a raw pitcher with considerable projection. If the Cubs can get a better version of him and a couple other guys for Pena then they should take it.

 

I was wondering about that. I remembered the players being more highly thought of than filler, but couldn't find anything to prove that in quick search. In a small sample size, it appeared Ty'Relle Harris was close to being able to contribute out of the pen, but I'm thinking he got hurt or something.

[Guest]

1) if we can get rid of the deferred $5M payment and then apply that to next year's budget or the draft or international signings, there is a lot of value to be had no matter what we get in return

 

2) Even without the deferred payment, trade him now, save over $2m and sign Maples.

 

3) depth guys can turn into valuable commodities. Just look at Archer as an examole

[dew1679666265]

I don't see what's hard to understand about that. If the best offer isn't what the Cubs feel like he's worth, then they shouldn't trade him.

 

Who really cares about what happens in the offseason? The chances the Cubs can get Fielder or Albert shouldn't affect Pena right now. Anyway Boras is Pena's (I always think Peena when I write his name, now that I've been listening to Moreland for half a season. Why doesn't someone correct him? But I digress) agent, and he trying to get Pena a longer term deal this offseason, I don't think the Cubs should even consider resigning him to a longer term deal.

 

But what's the benefit to keeping Pena? Maybe we have an ever so slightly better chance of re-signing him in the offseason, but keeping him could also have an impact on our draft slotting and we might pick a spot lower in the draft. We also would get, in the scenario outlined, three decent prospects who have varying levels of providing cheap production at the major league level. There's really no good reason to pass that up.

[davearm2]

There's no reason to trade Pena just to get more filler, doing so because it is the highest offer is dumb.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that getting out from under the $5M deferred on Pena's deal could pay for all of the Cubs' best overslots from the June draft.

 

So imagine the Cubs trade Pena for filler, and then the next day announce the signings of Vogelbach, Gretzky, Dunston, and Maples.

 

Would that be reason enough to trade Pena just to get more filler?

 

EDIT: I guess Tim just mentioned it ;)

[Little Slide Rooter]

There's no reason to trade Pena just to get more filler, doing so because it is the highest offer is dumb.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that getting out from under the $5M deferred on Pena's deal could pay for all of the Cubs' best overslots from the June draft.

 

So imagine the Cubs trade Pena for filler, and then the next day announce the signings of Vogelbach, Gretzky, Dunston, and Maples.

 

Would that be reason enough to trade Pena just to get more filler?

 

EDIT: I guess Tim just mentioned it ;)

 

This. While its usually better to get prospects over money, Id much rather get the money to throw at some overslots than get some fringe prospects.

[questionmarkgrace]

a couple weeks back mlbtraderumors had a link to elias' mid season grades and had Pena as a type B. So that would garner what a 2nd round pick or a sandwich pick?

[davell]

1) if we can get rid of the deferred $5M payment and then apply that to next year's budget or the draft or international signings, there is a lot of value to be had no matter what we get in return

 

2) Even without the deferred payment, trade him now, save over $2m and sign Maples.

 

3) depth guys can turn into valuable commodities. Just look at Archer as an examole

 

 

If there's any way we're overbudget when the time comes for the overslots, I agree completely here. Any money saved on Pena or whoever else, could wind up being extremely valuable down the road, with the players we drafted.......

[Guest]

1) if we can get rid of the deferred $5M payment and then apply that to next year's budget or the draft or international signings, there is a lot of value to be had no matter what we get in return

 

2) Even without the deferred payment, trade him now, save over $2m and sign Maples.

 

3) depth guys can turn into valuable commodities. Just look at Archer as an examole

 

 

If there's any way we're overbudget when the time comes for the overslots, I agree completely here. Any money saved on Pena or whoever else, could wind up being extremely valuable down the road, with the players we drafted.......

I will also buy Tim's reasoning, if I thought the Cubs would do something immediately useful with the money. It's not that I think they won't, but it would be great if they did.

 

EDIT: Archer wasn't a depth guy though.

Edited July 12, 2011 by CubinNY

[Outshined_One]

a couple weeks back mlbtraderumors had a link to elias' mid season grades and had Pena as a type B. So that would garner what a 2nd round pick or a sandwich pick?

 

Sandwich pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds.

 

There's some value there, but the package the Cubs got for Lee was better than what they'd likely get out of a single sandwich pick.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

1) if we can get rid of the deferred $5M payment and then apply that to next year's budget or the draft or international signings, there is a lot of value to be had no matter what we get in return

 

2) Even without the deferred payment, trade him now, save over $2m and sign Maples.

 

3) depth guys can turn into valuable commodities. Just look at Archer as an examole

 

Can't believe it took someone this long to bring up these points. This is still a business, and getting out from having to pay more than $6 million should be a huge benefit to a team that can't use Carlos Pena much for the rest of this season. Fans might not care because it's not our money, but I'd certainly like to not pay Pena $6 million more if someone would take him off my uncontending teams hand.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

EDIT: Archer wasn't a depth guy though.

 

Archer was absolutely a depth guy. He was a raw 20 year old arm with no control who wasn't a top 10 prospect for Cleveland.

 

ETA:

Contrary to what sportswriters and broadcasters would have you believe, DeRosa obviously isn't perceived as being especially valuable, even after his career season. Stevens is the best prospect of this group. He was supposed to be Team USA's closer in the Olympics, but he was bumped from the role after blowing his first chance. The 25-year-old has subpar command of pretty good stuff. He may yet turn into a setup man, but he shouldn't figure into the Cubs' plans for the beginning of 2009. Archer, 20, was a fifth-rounder in 2006. He has a power arm that may fit in the pen, but he has a lot to overcome after walking 84 in 115 1/3 innings in low-A ball. Gaub is another relief possibility. Unlike Archer, he might be a candidate to jump to Double-A next year.

[TruffleShuffle]

 

EDIT: Archer wasn't a depth guy though.

 

Archer was absolutely a depth guy. He was a raw 20 year old arm with no control who wasn't a top 10 prospect for Cleveland.

 

ETA:

Contrary to what sportswriters and broadcasters would have you believe, DeRosa obviously isn't perceived as being especially valuable, even after his career season. Stevens is the best prospect of this group. He was supposed to be Team USA's closer in the Olympics, but he was bumped from the role after blowing his first chance. The 25-year-old has subpar command of pretty good stuff. He may yet turn into a setup man, but he shouldn't figure into the Cubs' plans for the beginning of 2009. Archer, 20, was a fifth-rounder in 2006. He has a power arm that may fit in the pen, but he has a lot to overcome after walking 84 in 115 1/3 innings in low-A ball. Gaub is another relief possibility. Unlike Archer, he might be a candidate to jump to Double-A next year.

 

i don't really consider archer a depth guy - he was more of a longshot high-ceiling type player. i think jeff lorick or matt spencer are more examples of organizational guys, who might turn into a situational reliever (lorick) or 4th/5th OF (spencer) if everything goes right for them. other examples would be scott moore/rocky cherry in the trachsel deal.

[mul21]

 

i don't really consider archer a depth guy - he was more of a longshot high-ceiling type player. i think jeff lorick or matt spencer are more examples of organizational guys, who might turn into a situational reliever (lorick) or 4th/5th OF (spencer) if everything goes right for them. other examples would be scott moore/rocky cherry in the trachsel deal.

 

I have to agree with this. There's definitely a big difference between filler guys and high ceiling long shots to make it. I'd rather get the long shots at this point considering the current strength of the minors in terms of middling ML talent.

[Guest]

Regardless of the characterization, you can absolutely get someone in the Archer mold as part of a return for Pena. Not trading him because you'd only get "filler" is a baffling sentiment, because it assumes that the Cubs system is SO deep that they're loaded with possible/probable major leaguers at every level and any additional guys who aren't the cream of the crop would be overkill, or that Carlos Pena can only bring a couple 40th round pick type guys in return.

[Guest]

Heck, we got someone in the Archer mold for Lee. We can definitely get that (and more / better) in return for Pena.