College Basketball 2011-2012

[ConstableRabbit]

He's been trending upwards, but has been significantly worse than Pat Fitzgerald.

Fitz: 40-36 overall (21-27 conference)

Carmody: 170-178 overall (61-127 conference)

 

Winning 32% of your conference games is just plain awful.

 

It's difficult to make a straight comparison. Pat Fitzgerald inherited a program that went 4-4, 5-3, and 5-3 in the Big Ten the three previous seasons. Bill Carmody inherited a program that went 3-13, 6-10, 0-16 in the Big Ten the three previous seasons. During the Fitzgerald era, their conference records look like this (this isn't exactly fair, either, considering Carmody had six years to build to this point):

 

Fitzgerald

2-6

3-5

5-3

5-3

3-5

3-5

 

Carmody

2-14

1-17

8-10

7-11

7-11

5-6

 

Carmody's record is certainly worse, but the last four years have been pretty close. And it's going to be hard to hire someone equivalent to Fitzgerald for basketball, in my opinion.

This is true, but Fitz also inherited a team with coach who died just before the season (which destroyed recruiting) and he really wasn't ready to be a HC. And as you noted, that's only half of Carmody's career... the first 6 years were even worse!

 

I don't want to get into a Carmody vs. Fitzgerald discussion, because it's pretty apples to oranges at the end of the day. The point I was trying to make is that Northwestern fans are tired of the team's inability to get over the hump (impatience given historical precedence duly noted). The fanbase has done away with moral victories in football and they're feeling the same about basketball -- getting "close" without making it isn't good enough anymore.

[SouthSideRyan]

And at least Fitz is gentlemanly enough to lose to Illinois every year.

[Exile on Waveland]

This is true, but Fitz also inherited a team with coach who died just before the season (which destroyed recruiting) and he really wasn't ready to be a HC. And as you noted, that's only half of Carmody's career... the first 6 years were even worse!

 

I don't want to get into a Carmody vs. Fitzgerald discussion, because it's pretty apples to oranges at the end of the day. The point I was trying to make is that Northwestern fans are tired of the team's inability to get over the hump (impatience given historical precedence duly noted). The fanbase has done away with moral victories in football and they're feeling the same about basketball -- getting "close" without making it isn't good enough anymore.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying (perhaps making this a pointless argument!). I would just be concerned that moving on from Carmody is a grass-is-greener proposition than may not pay dividends. I say that as someone that is rooting for you guys (even though you have been kicking IU's butt the past three seasons -- though that hasn't exactly been an exclusive club).

 

Maybe I'm just being contrary because I'm rather concerned about tonight's game.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hope you lose by 50.

[ConstableRabbit]

This is true, but Fitz also inherited a team with coach who died just before the season (which destroyed recruiting) and he really wasn't ready to be a HC. And as you noted, that's only half of Carmody's career... the first 6 years were even worse!

 

I don't want to get into a Carmody vs. Fitzgerald discussion, because it's pretty apples to oranges at the end of the day. The point I was trying to make is that Northwestern fans are tired of the team's inability to get over the hump (impatience given historical precedence duly noted). The fanbase has done away with moral victories in football and they're feeling the same about basketball -- getting "close" without making it isn't good enough anymore.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying (perhaps making this a pointless argument!). I would just be concerned that moving on from Carmody is a grass-is-greener proposition than may not pay dividends. I say that as someone that is rooting for you guys (even though you have been kicking IU's butt the past three seasons -- though that hasn't exactly been an exclusive club).

 

Maybe I'm just being contrary because I'm rather concerned about tonight's game.

That's definitely true and absolutely something that the fans clamoring for Carmody's head at any cost don't seem to understand. Northwestern has been a graveyard for coaches -- many of whom are quite talented. Carmody was respected and successful before NU, Kevin O'Neil was before and after... even Tex Winter couldn't win there.

 

Any hire would have to be a pretty big-time guy, and that'd take the updated facilities plan, a boatload of cash, and prayers to happen.

 

Now we just need to channel Bill Foster and upset IU tonight :)

[abuck1220]

Hope you lose by 50.

 

you're jockeying with northwestern for like 8th place. you want indiana to win.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hope you lose by 50.

 

you're jockeying with northwestern for like 8th place. you want indiana to win.

 

I know what I said, I hope they lose by 50.

 

Besides the top 10 from the B1G are all in the tourney.

[bcl412]

The top 10 in the BIG getting in would be ok with me.

[SouthSideRyan]

Hey, if we're going to ban Minnesota from the tourney for losing to Iowa, shouldn't we ban Iowa from the tourney for being Iowa?

[abuck1220]

actually, since most people have minnesota getting in, iowa should be a lock for like a 4 seed.*

 

*iowa state's million point win over iowa is irrelevant, and iowa state is playing a first round road game in the NIT.

[bcl412]

Hey, if we're going to ban Minnesota from the tourney for losing to Iowa, shouldn't we ban Iowa from the tourney for being Iowa?

 

Well, since Iowa isn't good at basketball that would make sense.

[abuck1220]

seriously though, minnesota has no chance. they're seriously going to finish like 6-12 in conference.

[Exile on Waveland]

seriously though, minnesota has no chance. they're seriously going to finish like 6-12 in conference.

 

They have a win against the coolest team in the nation.

[bcl412]

seriously though, minnesota has no chance. they're seriously going to finish like 6-12 in conference.

 

They have a win against the coolest team in the nation.

 

North Dakota State is not cool.

[Smack]

Over/Unders tonight.

 

Purdue missed FT's: 8.5

 

Brandon Paul fadeaway 3's attempted: 3.5

 

Gus Johnson IU references: 2.5

 

Painter/Weber combined shouts of the word 'move': 1,194.5

[SouthSideRyan]

Myke Henry minutes: 2.5

[Pushfrog98]

One of my co-workers read somewhere (on some Illini forum) that Thad Matta has an opt-out clause if the head coaching spot opened at Illinois. Neither of us could find any legitimacy to that claim though.

[SouthSideRyan]

One of my co-workers read somewhere (on some Illini forum) that Thad Matta has an opt-out clause if the head coaching spot opened at Illinois. Neither of us could find any legitimacy to that claim though.

 

Well, that certainly isn't true.

[Magnetic Curses]

Myke Henry minutes: 2.5

 

if he's contantly trailing his man and committing hilariously awkward-looking turnovers then he need not even suit up. i like him, but he's just not ready to take minutes away from bertrand yet.

[Magnetic Curses]

One of my co-workers read somewhere (on some Illini forum) that Thad Matta has an opt-out clause if the head coaching spot opened at Illinois. Neither of us could find any legitimacy to that claim though.

 

Well, that certainly isn't true.

 

yeah, like skittlebrau, i think he must have dreamed it

[illiniguy]

One of my co-workers read somewhere (on some Illini forum) that Thad Matta has an opt-out clause if the head coaching spot opened at Illinois. Neither of us could find any legitimacy to that claim though.

 

Well, that certainly isn't true.

Thanks Ron Guenther, Thad wasn't ready for a big gig......

[illiniguy]

Maniscalco is gonna play tonight. Gonna wear a big knee brace. He's made one basket this calendar year, Weber should be fired right now.

[SouthSideRyan]

One of my co-workers read somewhere (on some Illini forum) that Thad Matta has an opt-out clause if the head coaching spot opened at Illinois. Neither of us could find any legitimacy to that claim though.

 

Well, that certainly isn't true.

Thanks Ron Guenther, Thad wasn't ready for a big gig......

 

If you wanna really annoy PMan, make fun of Guenther. I think they were friends or something. He keeps deleting my posts calling him out his stupid jabs at Mike Thomas saying he's a good "talker"

[hawkeyecub]

One of my co-workers read somewhere (on some Illini forum) that Thad Matta has an opt-out clause if the head coaching spot opened at Illinois. Neither of us could find any legitimacy to that claim though.

 

Well, that certainly isn't true.

Thanks Ron Guenther, Thad wasn't ready for a big gig......

 

Was Matta interviewed when they hired Weber?

[SouthSideRyan]

That guy was some kind of androgynous