2011 Bears Offseason thread

[Banedon]

From the sounds of things, Lance Louis has been the best OL in camp so far. Of course, "best" is a relative term.

 

Which makes me think that Chris Williams is probably the most likely candidate to get replaced by Spencer.

 

Yeah, Tice's quote about the 5 being set unless one of them proves him wrong makes me think they are pressuring Williams to improve, or they will slot Spencer into C with Garza back to RG and Louis flipping to left side.

 

They could also decide to just slide Spencer in at left guard to keep everyone else where they are. I think they actually like Garza at C.

 

They could, but I think that puts more guys at unfamiliar positions. Spencer is a C, Garza is a G. Seems odd to try out an old guard at center and have your new center learn to play guard when you can just put them both in their normal positions.

 

I agree, but I think they like having a guy that's been around a while being at center.

[Banedon]

Speaking of the schedule....I'm in a football mode this morning so I went over it again.

 

The schedule to start the season is going to be really tough. But then again, that's what we said last year (DET, @ DAL, GB, @ NYG) and we started 3-1. This year its ATL, @ NO, GB, CAR. If we can go 2-2, I'd be satisfied. After those 4 games, we have probably 3 more really tough games (@ PHI, SD, @ GB), 5 winnable but challenging games (@ DET, @ TAM (LONDON), KC, DET, @ MIN), and 3 pretty easy games although 2 are on the road. (@ OAK, @ DEN, SEA)

 

So take 2 wins in category A (first 4 games), 2 in category B (really tough games), 3 in category C (5 challenging but winnable), and the 3 category D (easy games), and you got 10-6. But that means you will have had to win 3 games from the following pool of games: ATL, @ NO, GB, @ GB, SD, @PHI). Are we good enough to do that?

 

I nearly wrote almost a very, very similar post. Even the bit about thinking last year was gonna be a tough start. I'm thinking 9-10 wins this year, unless that O-line is better than we all think it'll be.

[Vanilla Ice]

Thank goodness 2 of those first 3 games are at home.

 

Yeah against the Falcons and Packers.

 

Packers first 1 sack away from leading the NFL in sacks. Falcons finished 22nd but are a formidible defensive team.

The Falcons pass rush has improved this offseason, too.

[ConstableRabbit]

Hayden visiting w the Bears today, per Vaughn Mcclure.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-freeagent-cb-hayden-to-visit-bears-20110808,0,2162393.story

[tfarks]

It will be very telling if Martz is dumb enough to stick to the 7 step drop for too long again this season. If they have problems blocking, and they almost certainly will, hopefully the 3 step run balanced team shows back up.

[Banedon]

"The Park District defers to us on what type of surface, and this is something we look at constantly on an annual basis," McCaskey said. "At this time, studies indicate and our medical staff recommends that we stay with a natural-grass surface. Now, a natural-grass surface has to be properly maintained. We are going to take a more active role in the maintenance of the grass surface at Soldier Field."

[MWV]

Per Rotoworld:

Coach Lovie Smith promises that Devin Hester will "be a huge part of the offense" and has named him the Bears' starting flanker.

Hester's role should have been reduced upon the acquisition of Roy Williams, but Bears coaches claim to have more confidence in Hester than Johnny Knox. "[Hester] really was our best receiver last year, even though the numbers didn’t show it," said delusional WRs coach Darryl Drake. Knox, who in reality was the Bears' top wideout a year ago, has been reduced to a backup split end role behind Roy Williams.

Hester is probably the Bears 4th best receiver, imo. Hopefully this is just preseason bluster.

[UMFan83]

Per Rotoworld:

Coach Lovie Smith promises that Devin Hester will "be a huge part of the offense" and has named him the Bears' starting flanker.

Hester's role should have been reduced upon the acquisition of Roy Williams, but Bears coaches claim to have more confidence in Hester than Johnny Knox. "[Hester] really was our best receiver last year, even though the numbers didn’t show it," said delusional WRs coach Darryl Drake. Knox, who in reality was the Bears' top wideout a year ago, has been reduced to a backup split end role behind Roy Williams.

Hester is probably the Bears 4th best receiver, imo. Hopefully this is just preseason bluster.

 

The Bears are masters at limiting expectations. Most teams coming off an NFC title game appearance are looking to take the next step and win a championship. Bears fans are now just hoping their team doesn't embarrass them this season.

[Guest]

Per Rotoworld:

Coach Lovie Smith promises that Devin Hester will "be a huge part of the offense" and has named him the Bears' starting flanker.

Hester's role should have been reduced upon the acquisition of Roy Williams, but Bears coaches claim to have more confidence in Hester than Johnny Knox. "[Hester] really was our best receiver last year, even though the numbers didn’t show it," said delusional WRs coach Darryl Drake. Knox, who in reality was the Bears' top wideout a year ago, has been reduced to a backup split end role behind Roy Williams.

Hester is probably the Bears 4th best receiver, imo. Hopefully this is just preseason bluster.

 

The Bears are masters at limiting expectations. Most teams coming off an NFC title game appearance are looking to take the next step and win a championship. Bears fans are now just hoping their team doesn't embarrass them this season.

 

Too late.

[jersey cubs fan]

Per Rotoworld:

Coach Lovie Smith promises that Devin Hester will "be a huge part of the offense" and has named him the Bears' starting flanker.

Hester's role should have been reduced upon the acquisition of Roy Williams, but Bears coaches claim to have more confidence in Hester than Johnny Knox. "[Hester] really was our best receiver last year, even though the numbers didn’t show it," said delusional WRs coach Darryl Drake. Knox, who in reality was the Bears' top wideout a year ago, has been reduced to a backup split end role behind Roy Williams.

Hester is probably the Bears 4th best receiver, imo. Hopefully this is just preseason bluster.

 

My impression of Knox is that he was not where he needed to be far too often to be considered the Bears best receiver last year. He may have ended with the better numbers, but he left a lot on the table.

[UMFan83]

Geez I dunno. Lots of stats (but not all) back up that Knox was the best receiver on the Bears last year. I understand what you are saying about leaving stuff on the table, but the stats are pretty telling.

 

         CAT YRD  TD YD/R TGT YD/TGT
Knox      51  960  5  18.8 99   9.7
Forte     51  547  3  10.2 --   --
Bennett   46  561  3  12.2 70   8.0
Olsen     41  404  5   9.9 69   5.9
Hester    40  475  4  11.9 73   6.5

 

Knox had the most receptions, most yards per reception, tied for the most TDs. The problem comes when you evaluate the number of times he was targeted. He was targeted roughly 30 more times last year than the other guys (I couldnt find targets for Forte). Despite this he caught nearly the came number of passes. So that's one part of it.

 

But when you look at his yards per catch and yards per target, you'd come to the conclusion that not only is Knox one of the best deep threats on the team, he's one of the best in the league. Among receivers with more than 50 catches this year, Knox was 2nd in yards per reception, trailing only Pittsburgh's Mike Wallace (22.5). Even factoring in targets, among receivers with 50 catches Knox was 4th in yards per target.

 

So is Knox an elite WR.......not really. I do acknowledge that he's not a great route runner and ends up in the wrong spot a lot of the time. How many Cutler INTs the last 2 years can be attributed to him? More than a few. But you throw to him and you will get production out of him, more than any other pass catcher on the Bears. I mean who has more ability to exceed Knox's ability? Earl "It takes me a year to learn the playbook enough to play" Bennett? or Devin "I have to sometimes be told on the field where to line up" Hester. Bennett is probably the best route runner but doesn't have the athletic ability that Knox has to break a 10 yard pass into a 30 yard reception. Hester just doesn't seem to have that natural feel for being a WR, as evidenced by him darting for the sidelines with an open field in front of him in Atlanta 2 years ago.

[jersey cubs fan]

Knox had the most receptions, most yards per reception, tied for the most TDs. The problem comes when you evaluate the number of times he was targeted. He was targeted roughly 30 more times last year than the other guys (I couldnt find targets for Forte). Despite this he caught nearly the came number of passes. So that's one part of it.

 

But when you look at his yards per catch and yards per target, you'd come to the conclusion that not only is Knox one of the best deep threats on the team, he's one of the best in the league.

 

I think that supports the idea that he's an innefficient receiver who can beat you with his legs by going deep but far from ideal in an offense which requires route running, timing and being in the right place.

 

The guy looked clueless out there many times. But with no few weapons available and his natural talent, they had to use him.

[SouthSideRyan]

But you throw to him and you will get production out of him, more than any other pass catcher on the Bears.

 

Considering he turned roughly half his targets into receptions, I'm inclined to disagree. The difference between him and Hester is probably negligible.

[UMFan83]

Knox had the most receptions, most yards per reception, tied for the most TDs. The problem comes when you evaluate the number of times he was targeted. He was targeted roughly 30 more times last year than the other guys (I couldnt find targets for Forte). Despite this he caught nearly the came number of passes. So that's one part of it.

 

But when you look at his yards per catch and yards per target, you'd come to the conclusion that not only is Knox one of the best deep threats on the team, he's one of the best in the league.

 

I think that supports the idea that he's an innefficient receiver who can beat you with his legs by going deep but far from ideal in an offense which requires route running, timing and being in the right place.

 

The guy looked clueless out there many times. But with no few weapons available and his natural talent, they had to use him.

 

That's fine. Despite all the limitations, when you threw that ball to Johnny Knox, you knew only 3 other receivers could get you more yards on average in the NFL. I responded originally when you said you werent sure that Knox was the Bears best receiver last year. Is Knox a number one or two on a lot of other teams? No. But on the 2010 Bears he was the best.

[Guest]

Knox had the most receptions, most yards per reception, tied for the most TDs. The problem comes when you evaluate the number of times he was targeted. He was targeted roughly 30 more times last year than the other guys (I couldnt find targets for Forte). Despite this he caught nearly the came number of passes. So that's one part of it.

 

But when you look at his yards per catch and yards per target, you'd come to the conclusion that not only is Knox one of the best deep threats on the team, he's one of the best in the league.

 

I think that supports the idea that he's an innefficient receiver who can beat you with his legs by going deep but far from ideal in an offense which requires route running, timing and being in the right place.

 

The guy looked clueless out there many times. But with no few weapons available and his natural talent, they had to use him.

 

That's fine. Despite all the limitations, when you threw that ball to Johnny Knox, you knew only 3 other receivers could get you more yards on average in the NFL. I responded originally when you said you werent sure that Knox was the Bears best receiver last year. Is Knox a number one or two on a lot of other teams? No. But on the 2010 Bears he was the best.

I think you have to weigh the interceptions into that, though. I seem to remember (an inexact science, for sure) at least three int's that were thrown right where Knox was supposed to be but wasn't. That makes a huge difference when evaluating these guys.

[Banedon]

I'm sure we'll see plenty of Knox, but I understand the Bears on this. There were multiple instances where Knox route running failure was directing responsible for interceptions.

[DivineBovine]

Completely agreed on the INT's for Knox. Any time the ball is slightly underthrown or behind him, he doesn't even seem to try. He's got to be one of the worst receivers in the NFL at turning into a defender when the DB is going for the ball.

[Banedon]

Some of what the Bears did, or didn't do, can be traced to their commitment to player development. After talking with a few free-agent offensive linemen, the Bears chose to stand pat, other than signing Chris Spencer as a replacement for Olin Kreutz.

 

"We have a good history of picking up free agents at the position, and there is nothing wrong with that," Angelo said, pointing to Roberto Garza, John Tait, Ruben Brown and Fred Miller. "But we want to bring along young guys.

 

"Mike Tice has a great track record of developing young players. He is a great evaluator, a great teacher and developer of players. We want to take advantage of his expertise and that's why we want to start bringing these young guys along. Just because they are unknown doesn't mean they won't be good players. At some point the player has to start from the bottom and work his way up."

 

.....

 

"We made our bed," Angelo said. "We have to make it work. You can't have stars at every position. It doesn't work that way."

[Banedon]

A nice report on the Bears WR's.

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Why-the-wide-receivers-stood-out-at-Bears-camp.html

 

Some other camp notes from that article.

 

The Bears aren’t tied to former first-round pick Vernon Gholston and I wouldn’t expect him on the roster to start the season. Wasn’t explosive off the ball and didn’t show the ability to win with his hands at the point of attack.

 

.....

 

The Bears looked like a veteran football team during their offensive install. Plenty of pre-snap movement and multiple personnel groupings. A lot of moving parts after an offseason that was shut down to the lockout.

[jersey cubs fan]

That's fine. Despite all the limitations, when you threw that ball to Johnny Knox, you knew only 3 other receivers could get you more yards on average in the NFL. I responded originally when you said you werent sure that Knox was the Bears best receiver last year. Is Knox a number one or two on a lot of other teams? No. But on the 2010 Bears he was the best.

 

Yeah, I don't think he was the best. That's the point. He was targeted a lot and put up decent numbers, but in a very inefficient manner.

[jersey cubs fan]

"We made our bed," Angelo said. "We have to make it work. You can't have stars at every position. It doesn't work that way."

 

Don't worry about that Jerry, you definitely don't have stars at every position. Or any position for that matter.

[Banedon]

"We made our bed," Angelo said. "We have to make it work. You can't have stars at every position. It doesn't work that way."

 

Don't worry about that Jerry, you definitely don't have stars at every position. Or any position for that matter.

 

Well now, Peppers and Hester (as a returner) are stars. And Urlacher and Briggs if you stretch the definition a touch. But yeah, pretty ridiculous statement on his part.

[jersey cubs fan]

"We made our bed," Angelo said. "We have to make it work. You can't have stars at every position. It doesn't work that way."

 

Don't worry about that Jerry, you definitely don't have stars at every position. Or any position for that matter.

 

Well now, Peppers and Hester (as a returner) are stars. And Urlacher and Briggs if you stretch the definition a touch. But yeah, pretty ridiculous statement on his part.

 

I was specifically thinking about the offensive line, it consists of 5 positions. In a more general sense the entire offense is lacking in stars. Cutler is star capable, but he's pretty far down the list of star QBs out there. Hester is a special teams star. Forte is a reliable runner, but no star. He makes a point that can't have stars at every position. It would be nice to have a legit pro bowl caliber offensive lineman, at least somewhere. And something resembling a star at WR.

 

New England knows they can't have stars everywhere, but they have stars. Indy knows they can't have stars everywhere, but they have stars.

[Banedon]

I was specifically thinking about the offensive line, it consists of 5 positions. In a more general sense the entire offense is lacking in stars. Cutler is star capable, but he's pretty far down the list of star QBs out there. Hester is a special teams star. Forte is a reliable runner, but no star. He makes a point that can't have stars at every position. It would be nice to have a legit pro bowl caliber offensive lineman, at least somewhere. And something resembling a star at WR.

 

New England knows they can't have stars everywhere, but they have stars. Indy knows they can't have stars everywhere, but they have stars.

 

I hear ya. I just don't think Jerry knows how to do offense. I really don't. Cutler fell in his lap and he's been stumbling and fumbling to figure out how to take advantage ever since.

[UMFan83]

That's fine. Despite all the limitations, when you threw that ball to Johnny Knox, you knew only 3 other receivers could get you more yards on average in the NFL. I responded originally when you said you werent sure that Knox was the Bears best receiver last year. Is Knox a number one or two on a lot of other teams? No. But on the 2010 Bears he was the best.

 

Yeah, I don't think he was the best. That's the point. He was targeted a lot and put up decent numbers, but in a very inefficient manner.

 

Inefficient? He had the most yards per target on the entire team...by a decent margin. How is that not a measure of efficiency? I realize he caught a lesser % of balls thrown his way but he made up for it in YAC and YPC. I know its not the only thing, but

 

Tell me which Bears receiver was better last year. Bennett, who didnt even see the field much the first 60% of the season? Hester, who is probably as raw or more as a receiver as Knox? Aromashadou?

 

Not that this adds anything to my argument because you are obviously smart enough to evaluate the numbers I posted before, but this is what their stats would look like if they all had 99 targets

 

          CAT YRD  TD 
Knox      51  960  5
Bennett   65  792  5
Olsen     59  580  7
Hester    54  644  5

 

I just don't see it. Knox stands out as king of the idiots.