2010-2011 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Soul]

And really, is it LeBron's fault that Cleveland constructed such a horrible team around him? If anything, their poor play just makes me understand better and even sympathize with why he wanted out.

 

They tried to build a championship team around him. They just failed, that's all.

 

It happens. The Timberwolves also failed to build a championship cast around Garnett (quickie example that comes to mind).

[Guest]

Even if LeBron wanted those moves made, that doesn't mean that he's responsible for them. Jordan wanted the Bulls to make all kinds of awful trades and draft picks, but they didn't listen.

 

 

You can't blame a kid for his parents spoiling him.

[davell]

I thought he wanted to win championships.

 

And he's got a really, really, really good chance to win at least one while he's in Miami.

 

And really, is it LeBron's fault that Cleveland constructed such a horrible team around him? If anything, their poor play just makes me understand better and even sympathize with why he wanted out.

 

 

Didn't they ask him for his thoughts on most of their acquisitions though? They gave him what he wanted to work with basically? At least I thought that was the case.

 

See, I thought it was usually more of an issue of him going "I want this guy or this type of guy" and then them coming back and being like "well, we we couldn't get you the puppy you wanted so we got you this really awesome gerbil instead."

 

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was wanting Stoudemire, but settled for Jamison, as the one obvious example. I do remember him being very happy about getting Jamison though.

[davell]

Even if LeBron wanted those moves made, that doesn't mean that he's responsible for them. Jordan wanted the Bulls to make all kinds of awful trades and draft picks, but they didn't listen.

 

 

You can't blame a kid for his parents spoiling him.

 

 

Very true. I just meant that Lebrin can't use the "they didn't build me a team" excuse as easily as others can in most situations, since they DID listen to him on the moves they made.

[Sammy Sofa]

I thought he wanted to win championships.

 

And he's got a really, really, really good chance to win at least one while he's in Miami.

 

And really, is it LeBron's fault that Cleveland constructed such a horrible team around him? If anything, their poor play just makes me understand better and even sympathize with why he wanted out.

 

 

Didn't they ask him for his thoughts on most of their acquisitions though? They gave him what he wanted to work with basically? At least I thought that was the case.

 

See, I thought it was usually more of an issue of him going "I want this guy or this type of guy" and then them coming back and being like "well, we we couldn't get you the puppy you wanted so we got you this really awesome gerbil instead."

 

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was wanting Stoudemire, but settled for Jamison, as the one obvious example. I do remember him being very happy about getting Jamison though.

 

Well, comparatively speaking that was an upgrade from most of the dregs they were trotting out there.

[Banedon]

There's no need to try to blame Lebron for the personnel stuff, when there's so much else to blame him for. I blame Lebron for dragging out his decision making progress into the biggest convoluted mess I've ever seen. He strung along at least 5 teams for weeks, and essentially held the free agency market hostage, as no big names would sign until he had. He did the whole "Decision" thing, and then acted like he didn't understand why everybody was upset. He took an image that had, up until that point, been one of class, and trashed it. None of those things are anybody's fault but his own.

[Sammy Sofa]

There's no need to try to blame Lebron for the personnel stuff, when there's so much else to blame him for. I blame Lebron for dragging out his decision making progress into the biggest convoluted mess I've ever seen. He strung along at least 5 teams for weeks, and essentially held the free agency market hostage, as no big names would sign until he had. He did the whole "Decision" thing, and then acted like he didn't understand why everybody was upset. He took an image that had, up until that point, been one of class, and trashed it. None of those things are anybody's fault but his own.

 

I definitely agree with all of that. I can't really blame him for leaving Cleveland, but the way he did wasn't just a dick move to them; it was a dick move to everyone.

[UMFan83]

I thought he wanted to win championships.

 

And he's got a really, really, really good chance to win at least one while he's in Miami.

 

And really, is it LeBron's fault that Cleveland constructed such a horrible team around him? If anything, their poor play just makes me understand better and even sympathize with why he wanted out.

He would have had a chance to win a bunch of championships with the Bulls.

 

He's got a good chance to win a bunch with the Heat, too. They're not going to be always as restricted as they are now.

 

Probably not, but no one knows for sure until the new CBA is settled on.

 

My belief is that LeBron probably knew the Bulls offered him the best immediate opportunity to win, but the Heat were right behind the Bulls. The problem with the Heat was that for the first year or two they were going to be really limited beyond the big 3. But get a couple of MLEs under their belts and suddenly their supporting cast is going to look decent. So LeBron took the option where he plays with his friends in a warm climate and hopes the star power of those 3 are enough to overwhelm everyone for a title this year, and if not, they will only improve the next couple of seasons.

[Old Style]

I thought he wanted to win championships.

 

And he's got a really, really, really good chance to win at least one while he's in Miami.

 

And really, is it LeBron's fault that Cleveland constructed such a horrible team around him? If anything, their poor play just makes me understand better and even sympathize with why he wanted out.

He would have had a chance to win a bunch of championships with the Bulls.

 

He's got a good chance to win a bunch with the Heat, too. They're not going to be always as restricted as they are now.

I disagree. He may win one or two in Miami, but the Bulls have a great young core that he could have realistically led to 5-6 championships. The Celtics are getting old and only have another year or two in them. But Atlanta, Orlando, the Bulls, and the Knicks if they get Carmelo will be around for a long time. There is no dominant team in that group, but there are a bunch of very talented teams that will make it difficult for Miami to make any long term run at the Finals year in and year out.

[Sammy Sofa]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bosh ended up being traded in the next couple of years.

[bukie]

Today's stat that likely only interests me: The Bulls have lost just twice to winning teams since December 3: at NY on Christmas, and at Portland last week.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't ever care who wins the NBA title, but LeBron is the sole reason I want 1 team to not win it.

[UMFan83]

There's no need to try to blame Lebron for the personnel stuff, when there's so much else to blame him for. I blame Lebron for dragging out his decision making progress into the biggest convoluted mess I've ever seen. He strung along at least 5 teams for weeks, and essentially held the free agency market hostage, as no big names would sign until he had. He did the whole "Decision" thing, and then acted like he didn't understand why everybody was upset. He took an image that had, up until that point, been one of class, and trashed it. None of those things are anybody's fault but his own.

 

I definitely agree with all of that. I can't really blame him for leaving Cleveland, but the way he did wasn't just a dick move to them; it was a dick move to everyone.

 

Honestly, the whole FA process left a sour taste in my mouth. Some of it is his fault, most of it is not. The shoddy reporting in the media really started it. There were actual articles in respected media outlets that said that LeBron James was going to be a Bull (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/sports/basketball/27draft.html). And ESPN was just a ridiculous farce the way they went about their reporting.

 

Then you have the whole specticle of LeBron. At first it was rumored he was going to fly to each city to hear pitches, and Nike was going to make a shoe in the team's colors to commemorate his FA visit. Then, after backlash there, it was decided he was going to invite everyone to visit him in Cleveland (not Akron either). That was another specticle. But all of that wouldn't have resonated with me without the shameful event called "The Decision". Rightly or wrongly, that turned me against him. Not even because he ditched Cleveland on national TV, but just the entire event of him having an hour long special on ESPN to announce where he was going to sign. It even sort of angered me that he was donating money to charity for the event because it was an attempt to limit the backlash.

 

Blah, I'm over it now. I think LeBron realizes what his actions this summer cost him in terms of reputation, even if he won't admit it.

[davell]

I don't think that Lebron ever had any intention of playing anywhere other than Miami. I think that those 3 had that plan layed out for a couple of years, in all likelihood. I think that the FA crap was just a show for each of their egos. To show them how much they were needed throughout the NBA.

 

On a side note, has anyone ever heard anything about the documentary Wade was doing during this process? Did it get shelved due to everyone hating on how everything went down? I would have loved to see all the fake acting about him mulling over Chicago and New York.

[UMFan83]

Today's stat that likely only interests me: The Bulls have lost just twice to winning teams since December 3: at NY on Christmas, and at Portland last week.

 

Pessimistic spin: 6 of the Bulls last 8 losses have come to the 20-34 Clippers, the 17-38 Nets, the 26-28 76ers, the 23-31 Bobcats (twice), and the 24-29 Warriors.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think it's weird that everyone hates Lebron so much for the free agency spectacle, but Wade has gotten away with using his kids as a prop when he was "considering" Chicago.

[bukie]

Today's stat that likely only interests me: The Bulls have lost just twice to winning teams since December 3: at NY on Christmas, and at Portland last week.

 

Pessimistic spin: 6 of the Bulls last 8 losses have come to the 20-34 Clippers, the 17-38 Nets, the 26-28 76ers, the 23-31 Bobcats (twice), and the 24-29 Warriors.

 

Also teams less likely that the Bulls will see in the playoffs. :)

 

To be fair, they're 27-8 in that stretch.

 

Mostly I wanted to post that before the rough swing the next 10 games (Spurs, Heat, at Hawks, at Magic, at Heat), because I think they'll lose at least 2, likely 3 of them.

[UMFan83]

I think it's weird that everyone hates Lebron so much for the free agency spectacle, but Wade has gotten away with using his kids as a prop when he was "considering" Chicago.

 

Yeah that was pretty bad. But I think people don't blame Wade for staying in Miami and I think most people, other than Chicagoans, were pretty much convinced he was going to stay in Miami from the start of the process until he signed. I'd be willing to bet most casual NBA fans didn't even realize that whole halfday drama that was Wade's second visit with the Bulls.

[bukie]

I don't think that Lebron ever had any intention of playing anywhere other than Miami. I think that those 3 had that plan layed out for a couple of years, in all likelihood. I think that the FA crap was just a show for each of their egos. To show them how much they were needed throughout the NBA.

 

On a side note, has anyone ever heard anything about the documentary Wade was doing during this process? Did it get shelved due to everyone hating on how everything went down? I would have loved to see all the fake acting about him mulling over Chicago and New York.

I'm sure they'll roll it into the championship video if they ever get one.

[davell]

I think it's weird that everyone hates Lebron so much for the free agency spectacle, but Wade has gotten away with using his kids as a prop when he was "considering" Chicago.

 

 

Wade was and always will be inside of Lebron's shadow on the national stage. It should have been a much larger story than it was and I hate to say it: But people just didn't care enough on the whole, for it to be a bigger story.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think it's weird that everyone hates Lebron so much for the free agency spectacle, but Wade has gotten away with using his kids as a prop when he was "considering" Chicago.

 

 

Wade was and always will be inside of Lebron's shadow on the national stage. It should have been a much larger story than it was and I hate to say it: But people just didn't care enough on the whole, for it to be a bigger story.

 

It just reminds me of the Cutler-Rothlisberger poll on ESPN, where fans said they hated Cutler more than a rapist. People's priorities are fucked up

[Soul]

I'll offer up the sour grapes angle. You've got 2 big city suitors -- CHI and NY -- who both got the snub from Lebron.

 

That's going to build in a lot of angst/extra scrutiny against Lebron.

 

He still handled it badly, though. But if he wasn't the biggest thing in basketball, or close to it, people probably wouldn't have cared as much. Or if the suitors were smaller market teams, same end result.

 

I mean, if Charlotte was the team that wanted Lebron and he snubbed them for Miami, it wouldn't have mattered as much. There's not as much media, not as many fans with a vested interest in that town.

[Banedon]

I think it's weird that everyone hates Lebron so much for the free agency spectacle, but Wade has gotten away with using his kids as a prop when he was "considering" Chicago.

 

 

Wade was and always will be inside of Lebron's shadow on the national stage. It should have been a much larger story than it was and I hate to say it: But people just didn't care enough on the whole, for it to be a bigger story.

 

It just reminds me of the Cutler-Rothlisberger poll on ESPN, where fans said they hated Cutler more than a rapist. People's priorities are [expletive] up

 

I don't know how the priorities are mixed up with hating Lebron more than Wade though. Lebron is a far better player than Wade, and a whole lot younger. He let Bulls fans (and fans of other teams) think they had a shot up until that stupid show. Wade might have teased Bulls fans, but once Lebron said Miami, everybody knew that Wade wasn't coming. From that perspective, you can blame Lebron for that, too.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think it's weird that everyone hates Lebron so much for the free agency spectacle, but Wade has gotten away with using his kids as a prop when he was "considering" Chicago.

 

 

Wade was and always will be inside of Lebron's shadow on the national stage. It should have been a much larger story than it was and I hate to say it: But people just didn't care enough on the whole, for it to be a bigger story.

 

It just reminds me of the Cutler-Rothlisberger poll on ESPN, where fans said they hated Cutler more than a rapist. People's priorities are [expletive] up

 

I don't know how the priorities are mixed up with hating Lebron more than Wade though. Lebron is a far better player than Wade, and a whole lot younger. He let Bulls fans (and fans of other teams) think they had a shot up until that stupid show. Wade might have teased Bulls fans, but once Lebron said Miami, everybody knew that Wade wasn't coming. From that perspective, you can blame Lebron for that, too.

 

Because people think LBJ is a worse person for not picking their team than Wade is for using his kids to get himself more attention.

[Banedon]

Because people think LBJ is a worse person for not picking their team than Wade is for using his kids to get himself more attention.

 

I see. I don't think it's a "worse person" scenario for me. I just dislike LBJ more. Mostly because I just don't care about Wade much. For me it's not about evaluating them as people.