The Ryne Sandberg Thread

[CubColtPacer]

He's still an extreme outlier. It's simply not realistic to expect most players to be anywhere near the type of player that Pujols is, so why not point to the legion of other players that perform multiple roles well, or at least serviceably? Pujols is basically a freak, so comparing other players to him is pretty pointless, plus players like Howard and Dunn have shown time and time again how extremely valuable they can be, so why dismiss them as if they're something young players should actively avoid becoming if their strengths ultimately show them to be that type of player? Some players simply have obvious strengths and glaring weaknesses instead of being "balanced" players, and Sandberg's rhetoric often times sounds like he wants to essentially "force it" if a player isn't one of those all-around workhorses.

 

If you are that player, why not make sure that you work on other parts of your game though. That's what Pujols, Sandberg and Dawson all did. Instead, these other guys, while valuable in some ways, don't improve themselves in the other parts of baseball.

 

A player like Dunn has been working on his defense for years. He wants to play the field (as evidenced by the fact that he's said he'd rather not be a DH). His lack of defense cost him a lot of money in free agency a couple of years ago. So he's definitely trying but some players don't just have the talent level to play average defense on a major league playing field.

 

As for at the plate, players like Howard and Dunn might not have the ability to cut down on their strikeouts without severely hurting the skills they have. It doesn't help to become a somewhat better hitter for average with less strikeouts if you lose a lot of power and walks in the process. Obviously if they could cut down on their strikeouts and keep everything else they could become elite level players but it's probably not feasible for them. They've reached their ceilings with their skillsets. Now it's just a question of if you let them do what they do and be very good to great players or try to completely overhaul them which might ruin the good things they give you in the process.

[dew1679666265]

I agree here, basically I'm saying that I believe some guys are content to hit 35 HR's and strike out 200 times. I think a batter that hits 25 HR's but strikes out 80 times a year is typically more valuable because he's not failing his team in other situations. Aramis is more valuable than Reynolds IMO.

 

It depends on what happens in those other 120 ABs where the batter originally struck out. If he has a .200 batting average in those ABs and grounds into 10 double plays, then he's not been a lot more productive with those ABs. However, if he puts up a .900 OPS with 30 doubles and 5 triples, then absolutely he's been better.

 

A strikeout is only inherently bad because it's an out. It's inherently better than a double play, however, and if your focus is on making contact simply to make contact, your chances of hitting a weak ground ball on a pitcher's pitch go up.

[ScrubMD]

I have very logical and statistics-based argument for Sandberg becoming manager and it is thus:

 

The Cubs winning the world series is no longer something I am expecting to see in my life (they probably only have another 50 years and that's if I don't develop a serious drug habit...which I plan to do). So since that's now in the category of things that would just be an added bonus to my life, I'm fine with very slightly reducing the odds in order to make it so if they do win it, it will be perfect. Sandberg has to be on the team in order for it to be perfect. Another thing I want in order for it to be perfect is a team that's mostly home-grown players, which in another 2-3 years the majority of our players could be. Finally, I'd really like for Austin Reed to make it to the majors and be on their world series-winning team. I've taken quite a liking to that young man because his facebook bio is "cowboy butts drive me nuts".

 

In conclusions, Sandberg should be the next manager. I rest my case.

[Sammy Sofa]

I agree here, basically I'm saying that I believe some guys are content to hit 35 HR's and strike out 200 times. I think a batter that hits 25 HR's but strikes out 80 times a year is typically more valuable because he's not failing his team in other situations. Aramis is more valuable than Reynolds IMO.

 

Agreed on the final point, but you can easily make a player like Reynolds much less valuable or invaluable if you try to make him into an Aramis-like player.

[fromthestretch]

 

I agree here, basically I'm saying that I believe some guys are content to hit 35 HR's and strike out 200 times. I think a batter that hits 25 HR's but strikes out 80 times a year is typically more valuable because he's not failing his team in other situations. Aramis is more valuable than Reynolds IMO.

 

You are completely ignoring the fact that guys like Howard and Dunn actually get on base, as well. It's not like they're either hitting a home run or making an out. Howard has a career OBP north of .370, while Dunn is over .380. The thing that these guys do well is not give in to the pitcher.

[haubrich91]

Maybe we'll see Soto hitting third if Sandberg is the manager. :wink:

[Wheelimus]

I'm dealing with extreme mixed emotions on Ryno becoming our next manager. On one hand, the man was my idol growing up and probably the only reason I'm a Cubs fan or, hell, might as well just say baseball fan. On special days I just have to rock my #23 jersey.

 

At the same time I cannot remember the last Cub manager I didn't grow to hate. So it's going to be strange to wind up hating my idol.

 

All that said I'll certainly be first in line to give him a fair shot if he gets the job.

[CoBleacherBum]

If the point of this thread is to show why Ryno should NOT be manager of the Cubs next year, it isn't convincing me. I guess the one exception would be the sac bunt with the #3 hitter. BUT... isn't it likely that if you took every manager and looked back at their history you could find a head scratcher like that?

 

By the way, what happened next? Did the runners eventually score? Did they win the game?

 

The bunt isn't the main point. The main points are his naive and unrealistic rhetoric regarding playing the game "the right way" and with "the right type of players" and his complete and total lack of coaching experience at the MLB level.

 

 

The lack of MLB coaching experience I completely agree with. I actually thought sliding Trammel in the manger position and having Sandberg take over the bench coach role might be a good idea. But obviously that's not going to happen.

 

As for the "playing the game the right way". I don't see the problem with this and don't know why it's a sticking point with some. He's in the minor league. I think teaching them to play the game "the right way" is just fine. Not sure if that's how he would continue to do things if he was with the Cubs. But at times I think it's fine (not the first inning, though).

[Sammy Sofa]

Because the way he's explained what the "right" player/game is is hopelessly naive and unrealistic.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

As for the "playing the game the right way". I don't see the problem with this and don't know why it's a sticking point with some. He's in the minor league. I think teaching them to play the game "the right way" is just fine. Not sure if that's how he would continue to do things if he was with the Cubs. But at times I think it's fine (not the first inning, though).

 

The problem is, his archaic descriptions of how to play baseball didn't come up just as a teaching method in the minor leagues. He droned endlessly about it in his HOF speech. Every article he wrote for Yahoo Sports was straight out of the Joe Morgan playbook. I have little reason to believe that he'd take a drastic turn on everything he's said/done in public when he got to the majors. My only hope would be that he'd have an intelligent bench coach who could steer him in the right direction, but I have no idea who that'd be.

[RynoRules]

I'm dealing with extreme mixed emotions on Ryno becoming our next manager. On one hand, the man was my idol growing up and probably the only reason I'm a Cubs fan or, hell, might as well just say baseball fan. On special days I just have to rock my #23 jersey.

 

At the same time I cannot remember the last Cub manager I didn't grow to hate. So it's going to be strange to wind up hating my idol.

 

All that said I'll certainly be first in line to give him a fair shot if he gets the job.

 

This. (see username)

 

And BTW, I think using his HOF speech as evidence of his philosophies on managing is pretty worthless. Its an HOF speech (by definition full of self-agrandizing, politically correct fluff), not a job interview.

[Sammy Sofa]

Once again, it's not just his HOF speech. It's basically every interview he's given over the last few years and the articles he wrote for Yahoo.

 

And that he's never coached at the ML level. That should be the most glaring and obvious argument against him.

[Wheelimus]

I'm dealing with extreme mixed emotions on Ryno becoming our next manager. On one hand, the man was my idol growing up and probably the only reason I'm a Cubs fan or, hell, might as well just say baseball fan. On special days I just have to rock my #23 jersey.

 

At the same time I cannot remember the last Cub manager I didn't grow to hate. So it's going to be strange to wind up hating my idol.

 

All that said I'll certainly be first in line to give him a fair shot if he gets the job.

 

This. (see username)

 

And BTW, I think using his HOF speech as evidence of his philosophies on managing is pretty worthless. Its an HOF speech (by definition full of self-agrandizing, politically correct fluff), not a job interview.

 

For me it's the little details. If he means playing the game the right way as in always giving 110%, always running hard to first, never giving up and so on then we're fine. If he means something more akin to that one example of bunting that people keep bringing up then we may have a problem.

 

Still, I'm not going to take one off comments from interviews as a blueprint for how he would manage. What would be wonderful would be a whole new interview where he discusses what his philosophies would be if he were to manage the 2011 Chicago Cubs.

[hardcorecubfan]

Once again, it's not just his HOF speech. It's basically every interview he's given over the last few years and the articles he wrote for Yahoo.

 

And that he's never coached at the ML level. That should be the most glaring and obvious argument against him.

 

 

Niether did Joe Girardi when he took over his first team. Not a Sandberg supporter but that argument might be out

[MSG T]

Once again, it's not just his HOF speech. It's basically every interview he's given over the last few years and the articles he wrote for Yahoo.

 

And that he's never coached at the ML level. That should be the most glaring and obvious argument against him.

 

 

Niether did Joe Girardi when he took over his first team. Not a Sandberg supporter but that argument might be out

 

Wasn't Girardi bench coach for Torre for a season before becomming a manager?

[Sammy Sofa]

Once again, it's not just his HOF speech. It's basically every interview he's given over the last few years and the articles he wrote for Yahoo.

 

And that he's never coached at the ML level. That should be the most glaring and obvious argument against him.

 

 

Niether did Joe Girardi when he took over his first team. Not a Sandberg supporter but that argument might be out

 

Girardi was the bench coach for the Yankees before managing the Marlins.

 

He's also kind of a shitty manager, too.

[Soul]

Not saying this is the way it will go, but I am a little concerned with a guy like Sandberg coming in to a bad situation and failing, which turns a lot of people against him.

 

I know -- not hiring him because of this is tantamount to running your team based on fear.

 

Ryno is one of my favorite ballplayers of all time. Let's just say I'm not all that excited about developing a 2nd piece of his Cub legacy that is perhaps not as stellar as the first.

 

Part of this is also that I'm not convinced he would be capable of doing well, and especially not with this club. And Cub fans & the media aren't going to hang with him in year 3, year 4 just because he's Ryno if the team still blows.

 

I don't know. I'm not real excited to see Ryno become manager. I'd prefer someone else.

[dew1679666265]

For me it's the little details. If he means playing the game the right way as in always giving 110%, always running hard to first, never giving up and so on then we're fine. If he means something more akin to that one example of bunting that people keep bringing up then we may have a problem.

 

Still, I'm not going to take one off comments from interviews as a blueprint for how he would manage. What would be wonderful would be a whole new interview where he discusses what his philosophies would be if he were to manage the 2011 Chicago Cubs.

 

I would really love to see the bolded. I think it'd be extremely useful and interesting.

 

As for the first part of your post, I'm fine with a manager preaching that and trying to get the players to follow it. However, I don't want a manager to run off a very talented player because he doesn't feel like the player hustled all the way to first on an easy groundout or something. It's not a popular viewpoint, but guys are going to dog it some over the course of a 162 game season. I'm ok with that as long as it doesn't affect their play and as long as they're productive otherwise.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't give a crap about who the manager is if Jim Hendry is still GM.

[Bruce Miles]

I am in Des Moines. I plan to speak with Ryno today and watch tonight's and tomorrow's games before picking up the Cubs in Cincy Friday.

[MSG T]

I am in Des Moines. I plan to speak with Ryno today and watch tonight's and tomorrow's games before picking up the Cubs in Cincy Friday.

 

Des Moines? Who did you piss off? j/k

 

Are you planning on asking him some questions that will either thrill posters here or turn this forum into a warzone?

[hardcorecubfan]

Once again, it's not just his HOF speech. It's basically every interview he's given over the last few years and the articles he wrote for Yahoo.

 

And that he's never coached at the ML level. That should be the most glaring and obvious argument against him.

 

 

Niether did Joe Girardi when he took over his first team. Not a Sandberg supporter but that argument might be out

 

Wasn't Girardi bench coach for Torre for a season before becomming a manager?

 

 

I wouldn't call that extensive major league experience, his promotion was a bit of a shock, but supposedly the catcher makes the best managers

[Bruce Miles]

I am in Des Moines. I plan to speak with Ryno today and watch tonight's and tomorrow's games before picking up the Cubs in Cincy Friday.

 

Des Moines? Who did you piss off? j/k

 

Are you planning on asking him some questions that will either thrill posters here or turn this forum into a warzone?

 

My idea to come here. We aren't doing a full schedule of Cubs travel yet (better than last year, though), so I thought this would be a good idea. I don't know about the questions thrilling people or not, but maybe the answers will.

[MSG T]

I am in Des Moines. I plan to speak with Ryno today and watch tonight's and tomorrow's games before picking up the Cubs in Cincy Friday.

 

Des Moines? Who did you piss off? j/k

 

Are you planning on asking him some questions that will either thrill posters here or turn this forum into a warzone?

 

My idea to come here. We aren't doing a full schedule of Cubs travel yet (better than last year, though), so I thought this would be a good idea. I don't know about the questions thrilling people or not, but maybe the answers will.

 

Hope you enjoy Sec Taylor..err Principal Park. Tonight should have great weather, don't know about tomorrow though. If it weren't for my son's football practice, I'd try to make one of the games this week.

[Wheelimus]

I am in Des Moines. I plan to speak with Ryno today and watch tonight's and tomorrow's games before picking up the Cubs in Cincy Friday.

 

Good luck Bruce, we'll all be anxiously awaiting that interview. Hoping that the crazy bunting scenario that comes up again and again was just a one time happening and not a greater representation of his philosophy.