Derrek Lee Blocks Trade to Angels

[Outshined_One]

I thought the PTBNA was widely considered the Angels top prospect. So the top prospect plus a 2009 2nd round pick. I don't know much about either, but it's not like Saunders was the centerpiece.

 

The PTBNL is apparently Tyler Skaggs, not the Angels' top prospect but the 40th pick in Anaheim's 2009 draft. That makes a former first and second round pick from that draft plus Rafael Rodriguez and Saunders.

 

Apparently Arizona likes Skaggs and Corbin more than most, so they may be viewed as the centerpieces of the deal.

 

Link

 

We achieved by maintaining major league quality with a 2008 All-Star in Joe Saunders and a guy who quite frankly has been one of the winners in Major League Baseball. I think he trails only Roy Halladay among major leaguers in total wins. He’s won 63 percent of his games since coming to the major leagues, pitched in the postseason on two different occasions.

 

...

 

On LHP Patrick Corbin: "We had a lot of interest in him during last season’s draft and all he’s done is go out and lead the minor leagues in wins. To this point in the minor league season, he’s 13-3 at two A levels."

[Keener98]

Wow

[dew1679666265]

Link

 

We achieved by maintaining major league quality with a 2008 All-Star in Joe Saunders and a guy who quite frankly has been one of the winners in Major League Baseball. I think he trails only Roy Halladay among major leaguers in total wins. He’s won 63 percent of his games since coming to the major leagues, pitched in the postseason on two different occasions.

 

...

 

On LHP Patrick Corbin: "We had a lot of interest in him during last season’s draft and all he’s done is go out and lead the minor leagues in wins. To this point in the minor league season, he’s 13-3 at two A levels."

 

These comments bring competency into question.

 

Holy cow:

I believe it’s a .630 winning percentage in his major league career. We’re getting a pitcher for our major league club who comes in and delivers a message to our guys that this is about winning now and winning in the future."

[Outshined_One]

These comments bring competency into question.

 

Holy cow:

I believe it’s a .630 winning percentage in his major league career. We’re getting a pitcher for our major league club who comes in and delivers a message to our guys that this is about winning now and winning in the future."

 

He could just be talking about winning percentage as a way of selling this trade to Diamondbacks fans. However, if wins and losses were indeed serious considerations in making this trade, he should be fired on the spot.

[dew1679666265]

These comments bring competency into question.

 

Holy cow:

I believe it’s a .630 winning percentage in his major league career. We’re getting a pitcher for our major league club who comes in and delivers a message to our guys that this is about winning now and winning in the future."

 

He could just be talking about winning percentage as a way of selling this trade to Diamondbacks fans. However, if wins and losses were indeed serious considerations in making this trade, he should be fired on the spot.

 

That's possible, since a large number of people will be impressed by pitcher wins. This just highlights how horrendous a trade this was that the GM has to talk about Joe Saunders and Pat Corbin's W/L record and winning percentage in selling the deal.

[dew1679666265]

Dave Cameron of Fangraphs writes about Haren's value around the league:

 

Then, while hanging out in Anaheim, I started talking to friends in the game about the list, and a consensus quickly emerged – they were not nearly as high on Haren as I was.

 

After a series of conversations that all went the same way – “He’s okay, but I wouldn’t give up any of those guys for him, or a bunch of other guys you didn’t include” – I dropped him from the list. It just became obvious that Haren’s trade value wasn’t as high as I thought it would be, given his performances the last few years. Regardless of where his xFIP ranks, he wasn’t seen as any kind of ace by the people who actually were putting rosters together.

 

Could this have been the best the DBacks could do for him?

[Exile on Waveland]

I thought the PTBNA was widely considered the Angels top prospect. So the top prospect plus a 2009 2nd round pick. I don't know much about either, but it's not like Saunders was the centerpiece.

 

The PTBNL is apparently Tyler Skaggs, not the Angels' top prospect but the 40th pick in Anaheim's 2009 draft. That makes a former first and second round pick from that draft plus Rafael Rodriguez and Saunders.

 

Apparently Arizona likes Skaggs and Corbin more than most, so they may be viewed as the centerpieces of the deal.

 

Link

 

We achieved by maintaining major league quality with a 2008 All-Star in Joe Saunders and a guy who quite frankly has been one of the winners in Major League Baseball. I think he trails only Roy Halladay among major leaguers in total wins. He’s won 63 percent of his games since coming to the major leagues, pitched in the postseason on two different occasions.

 

...

 

On LHP Patrick Corbin: "We had a lot of interest in him during last season’s draft and all he’s done is go out and lead the minor leagues in wins. To this point in the minor league season, he’s 13-3 at two A levels."

 

I think the question of Dipoto's competency has now been answered.

[Tyrant]

Dave Cameron of Fangraphs writes about Haren's value around the league:

 

Then, while hanging out in Anaheim, I started talking to friends in the game about the list, and a consensus quickly emerged – they were not nearly as high on Haren as I was.

 

After a series of conversations that all went the same way – “He’s okay, but I wouldn’t give up any of those guys for him, or a bunch of other guys you didn’t include” – I dropped him from the list. It just became obvious that Haren’s trade value wasn’t as high as I thought it would be, given his performances the last few years. Regardless of where his xFIP ranks, he wasn’t seen as any kind of ace by the people who actually were putting rosters together.

 

Could this have been the best the DBacks could do for him?

 

If that's the best you can do for Dan Haren, just keep him.

[Guest]

No one had a gun to Arizona's head Demanding he be traded. If his value is that low, keep him and trade him this winter or next season when his value rebounds.

[dew1679666265]

I agree with both of you Tyrant and Raisin.

[Tracer Bullet]

are we sure his value rebounds after the second half? Hasn't Haren been a first half pitcher literally every year of his career (eta: checked the stats, looks like his first full year - '05 - is the lone exception)? And are the Dbacks thinking Haren isn't worth the $29m he's going to get for the next 2 years (or $41m over the next 3)?

 

I really don't know one way or the other, but I'm wondering if this is really a horrible deal for the Dbacks. Saunders is no Haren (despite what the GM says about his wins), but he's a guy you can run out there every 5th day in the NLW and pay 1/3 of what you're paying Haren. If you're not winning this year and not expecting to win next year, maybe getting 2 players you really like, a ML starter (in his first arb year), and saving yourself $20m+ over the next 2 years isn't so bad. Especially given what the fangraphs article said about Haren's value around the league.

[Clem Fandango]

While it seems Cantu is their target of choice, there have been some rumors that the Rangers have been keeping an eye on Derrek Lee...

 

The Rangers are known to be seeking a right-handed hitting first baseman, perhaps a platoon partner for Chris Davis. USA Today's Bob Nightengale tweets that they are "in deep conversations" with the Marlins for Jorge Cantu, and "taking a close look" at the Cubs' Derrek Lee. They'd also like to add another starting pitcher and a lefty reliever.

 

Lee is the new name in the mix for the Rangers, though he and Cantu are used to being regulars. Neither player has hit like a regular first baseman this year - Cantu is at .260/.309/.412, and Lee stands at .251/.338/.391. Their contracts are significant - Cantu has $2.28MM remaining and Lee has $4.95MM. The Rangers have also been linked to players such as Ty Wigginton, Mike Lowell, and Wes Helms.

 

- MLBTR

[Keener98]

While it seems Cantu is their target of choice, there have been some rumors that the Rangers have been keeping an eye on Derrek Lee...

 

The Rangers are known to be seeking a right-handed hitting first baseman, perhaps a platoon partner for Chris Davis. USA Today's Bob Nightengale tweets that they are "in deep conversations" with the Marlins for Jorge Cantu, and "taking a close look" at the Cubs' Derrek Lee. They'd also like to add another starting pitcher and a lefty reliever.

 

Lee is the new name in the mix for the Rangers, though he and Cantu are used to being regulars. Neither player has hit like a regular first baseman this year - Cantu is at .260/.309/.412, and Lee stands at .251/.338/.391. Their contracts are significant - Cantu has $2.28MM remaining and Lee has $4.95MM. The Rangers have also been linked to players such as Ty Wigginton, Mike Lowell, and Wes Helms.

 

- MLBTR

 

You dont say......

[Clem Fandango]

You dont say......

 

For some reason I thought the conversation at the top of this page was from yesterday and didn't see a reference to this. My mistake

[Keener98]

You dont say......

 

For some reason I thought the conversation at the top of this page was from yesterday and didn't see a reference to this. My mistake

 

Just messing with you

[davell]

Stark thinks it's highly inlikely Lee will waive his NTC before the deadline.

[dew1679666265]

I really don't know one way or the other, but I'm wondering if this is really a horrible deal for the Dbacks. Saunders is no Haren (despite what the GM says about his wins), but he's a guy you can run out there every 5th day in the NLW and pay 1/3 of what you're paying Haren. If you're not winning this year and not expecting to win next year, maybe getting 2 players you really like, a ML starter (in his first arb year), and saving yourself $20m+ over the next 2 years isn't so bad. Especially given what the fangraphs article said about Haren's value around the league.

 

You can run Saunders out there every fifth day, but he's not going to give you very many quality starts. He's got a career 4.69 xFIP and it's gotten progressively worse each of the past three seasons (4.65 in 2008, 4.80 in 2009 and 4.94 so far this year). He's also struck out just 5.1 batters per nine in his career and hasn't been above 4.89 K/9 in the past three seasons. He's also making almost $4 mil this year, so he's much cheaper than Haren but Fangraphs has him being worth $800,000 for his career (for what that's worth).

 

The reliever isn't particularly impressive, but the other guys seem to have at least decent upside. I wonder about how much, though, since the only thing Dipoto talked about was how they could win games.

[dew1679666265]

From Bruce's blog:

 

This I can tell you: The Cubs are not interested at this time in Seattle's Chone Figgins. If they were to do anything with him, it would be only in an off-season "bad contract" type of deal. Derrek Lee is giving no indication that he'll waive both his 10-and-5 rights and his no-trade clause, enabling the Cubs to move him. Reports out of Texas say the Rangers might be interesting, but Lee doesn't appear to be their first choice.

 

Strange note about Figgins there, I hadn't heard anything to this point about interest from the Cubs (since the offseason, that is).

[daske17]

From Bruce's blog:

 

This I can tell you: The Cubs are not interested at this time in Seattle's Chone Figgins. If they were to do anything with him, it would be only in an off-season "bad contract" type of deal. Derrek Lee is giving no indication that he'll waive both his 10-and-5 rights and his no-trade clause, enabling the Cubs to move him. Reports out of Texas say the Rangers might be interesting, but Lee doesn't appear to be their first choice.

 

Strange note about Figgins there, I hadn't heard anything to this point about interest from the Cubs (since the offseason, that is).

 

Silva for Figgins? Hey Seattle, we fixed him for real this time!

[davearm2]

How about Zambrano for Figgins? Who hangs up first on that one?

 

Might be a decent face-saving exit strategy for both sides.

[dew1679666265]

Figgins this year: .232/.334/.275 :shock:

[Outshined_One]

Figgins this year: .232/.334/.275 :shock:

 

He's also been a headache in the clubhouse.

 

Link

 

I want no part of him.

[davearm2]

Figgins this year: .232/.334/.275 :shock:

 

He's also been a headache in the clubhouse.

 

Link

 

I want no part of him.

If Figgins has been a headache in the clubhouse, then what does getting put on the restricted list for a month and being sent to anger management qualify as? ;)

 

Anyway to answer my own question, I doubt the Mariners would be interested unless the Cubs were sending a bunch of $$$ with Z.

 

I don't put a lot of stock in Fangraphs' dollar valuations, but when comparing two guys, the flaws in the system affect both guys, leaving the relative comparison mildly useful. With that caveat, since 2006 Figgins has been worth $52.6M and Zambrano $57.9M.

 

Given the disparity in what each guy is owed moving forward (2/$36M for Z, 3/$26+ vesting option for Figgins), it sure seems like the trade would be a win for the Cubs.

 

And that's without considering the Cubs have better depth at SP than 2B.

[dew1679666265]

If Figgins has been a headache in the clubhouse, then what does getting put on the restricted list for a month and being sent to anger management qualify as? ;)

 

Anyway to answer my own question, I doubt the Mariners would be interested unless the Cubs were sending a bunch of $$$ with Z.

 

I don't put a lot of stock in Fangraphs' dollar valuations, but when comparing two guys, the flaws in the system affect both guys, leaving the relative comparison mildly useful. With that caveat, since 2006 Figgins has been worth $52.6M and Zambrano $57.9M.

 

Given the disparity in what each guy is owed moving forward (2/$36M for Z, 3/$26+ vesting option for Figgins), it sure seems like the trade would be a win for the Cubs.

 

And that's without considering the Cubs have better depth at SP than 2B.

 

I actually think Z is more likely to be good going forward than Figgins. Z is still not yet 30 (turned 29 in June) and while his stuff has dropped off some, he's still been effective.

 

Figgins, on the other hand, will be 33 by the start of next season and will likely become very reliant on speed to maintain his solid OBP and average. He doesn't slug (hasn't slugged .400 since 2007), so pitchers will likely begin to serve up hittable pitches to him, decreasing his amount of walks and increasing his need to be BABIP lucky.

 

Neither is likely to be good for the extent of their contract, but I think Z is more likely to be productive going forward.

[davell]

I think you guys may be looking at the wrong possibility here. I think if we're talking about Figgins, Fukudome is who they'd be taking back. They wanted him back when we got him anyway......

 

We'd save money this year AND next actually. Fukudome makes 13.5 next year while Figgins makes 9. But, we'd then still have Figgins for 2-17 in 2012-13 and he's got a vesting option that could kick in if he hit 600 plate appearances for 2014 as well.

 

I wouldn't do it personally, if we HAVE to rid ourselves of Fukudome, just eat whatever amount we have to and trade him wherever......