Castro eventually to 3rd?

[jersey cubs fan]

so we've clearly established that the situations are not identical, which is an argument that exactly no one has made. Glad that's settled.

 

They aren't identical, and they aren't particularly similar either.

 

they're analogous, jersey. they just are. i'm not sure why that's unacceptable to you. but if it is, so be it. the cubs are going to resolve the situation if Lee continues to progress and Castro proves to be a very good MLB SS. how they do so, no one knows. but if they choose to resolve it in a way that isn't sufficient similar to any situation in the past for your liking, such is life.

 

It has nothing to do with whether or not the situation will be resolved. It's about whether the player will happily play along. The lack of a precedent for 24/25 year old SS's who can handle the position happily moving off that position just as they approach the final years of arbitration and pending free agency is meaningful.

[jersey cubs fan]

Young played SS for over 30% of his minor league career, he was clearly familiar with the position.

 

The original point was that you have an All-Star caliber SS, it might be a tough sell to move them to a different position. Young's situation is analogous because he's an All-Star caliber SS and moved to a different spot so the team could be better off defensively. The fact that moving Young made those two spots okay and good(improving upon awful and good) instead of awesome and awesome(improving on good and awesome) like Lee/Castro would do is irrelevant.

 

It's quite different. He was in his 30s and really bad fielding the position. He also spent most of his time not playing SS before then. Castro is much younger has almost exclusively played SS and presumably will be quite good at it at the time of a move possibly happening.

 

They are not similar situations. Young had to move, and it was convenient they had a guy to fill the spot. Castro should not have to move.

i love this narrative. like the Rangers approached Young and said "you're really terrible at fielding, guy" and he's all like "i had no idea, tell me what i must do!"

 

He was a 30-something player with a contract who had already benefitted from the cache of being a SS who could hit. There was much less for him to care about in giving up that position.

[sneakypower]

i was referring to Chipper Jones the MVP moving to LF (and threatening his HOF status) for Vinny Castilla (oh, please, please try to argue this one as a defensive necessity)

 

there probably wasn't a precedent for that exact set of criteria, either

[jersey cubs fan]

i was referring to Chipper Jones the MVP moving to LF (and threatening his HOF status) for Vinny Castilla (oh, please, please try to argue this one as a defensive necessity)

 

there probably wasn't a precedent for that exact set of criteria, either

 

I don't recall what happened with Chipper but thought there were injury issues involved. Moving off 3rd isn't the same as moving off SS, and there's plenty of precedent for older players eventually moving.

 

 

But you were referring to Young and the Rangers anyway.

[sneakypower]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2325920887_b206236832.jpg

[jersey cubs fan]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2325920887_b206236832.jpg

 

 

Yes, that is what you are doing.

 

 

Chipper moved to LF in 2002. He was 30 and had already signed a 6 year contract. Not at all similar to a young SS looking for his first big contract.

[Guest]

i love this narrative. like the Rangers approached Young and said "you're really terrible at fielding, guy" and he's all like "i had no idea, tell me what i must do!"

 

He was a 30-something player with a contract who had already benefitted from the cache of being a SS who could hit. There was much less for him to care about in giving up that position.

 

So we sign Castro to an extension and then move him wherever we please. Glad we figured that out.

[TruffleShuffle]

plus chipper had played some outfield in the past and he just volunteered to move for castilla. maybe he liked outfield, who knows.

 

i guess if starlin volunteers to move over to second then we won't have to worry about how one of the team's best players reacts when he's asked to move off his natural position when he hasn't even reached his prime.

[Tracer Bullet]

so we've clearly established that the situations are not identical, which is an argument that exactly no one has made. Glad that's settled.

 

They aren't identical, and they aren't particularly similar either.

 

they're analogous, jersey. they just are. i'm not sure why that's unacceptable to you. but if it is, so be it. the cubs are going to resolve the situation if Lee continues to progress and Castro proves to be a very good MLB SS. how they do so, no one knows. but if they choose to resolve it in a way that isn't sufficient similar to any situation in the past for your liking, such is life.

 

It has nothing to do with whether or not the situation will be resolved. It's about whether the player will happily play along. The lack of a precedent for 24/25 year old SS's who can handle the position happily moving off that position just as they approach the final years of arbitration and pending free agency is meaningful.

 

so he'll move or sit on the bench (if that's the Cubs decision). similar to Soriano - he'll either accept happily or move begrudgingly. seems like moving to second or third is less harmful to his FA contract than pouting on the bench.

[TruffleShuffle]

soriano was 5 years older and a bad fielder, and i enjoy the idea of telling one of the organization's few good players to move positions or sit on the bench. that usually turns out great.

[sneakypower]

yeah i know, it seems like, whenever that happens, the player has a 46 HR season

[Rob]

Hey guys, remember when Jose Reyes moved to 2B so Kaz Matsui could play SS?

 

Argue about whether that one is analogous or not for a while.

[Tracer Bullet]

no

[sneakypower]

what's really ironic about the whole thing is that if the situation does come to fruition, ultimately the guy who's (most likely) going to be asking Castro to move is someone who did the same exact thing himself and became arguably the best 2B of all time in doing so

[abuck1220]

geez, you people will argue about anything.

[jersey cubs fan]

what's really ironic about the whole thing is that if the situation does come to fruition, ultimately the guy who's (most likely) going to be asking Castro to move is someone who did the same exact thing himself and became arguably the best 2B of all time in doing so

 

No, it's not the exact same thing. Ryno was a SS who moved to 3B and then 2B in order to get a shot in the majors. That is in no way shape or form the exact same thing as asking an established young player to move just before he's ready to sign his biggest contract.

[SouthSideRyan]

And Sandberg isn't the best 2B of all time.

[SouthSideRyan]

But Sandberg moved to 2B because the Cubs got Ron Cey. He already had a full year as a 3B. It wasn't to "get a shot at the majors"

[SouthSideRyan]

You're all wrong and stupid

[jersey cubs fan]

But Sandberg moved to 2B because the Cubs got Ron Cey. He already had a full year as a 3B. It wasn't to "get a shot at the majors"

 

He moved to 3B to get a shot, and one year later moved to 2B as he was not an established player.

[javy knows my name]

So very rarely do 3 of nsbb's most prolific arguers come together to join in such a meaningless nitpick. This is one for the ages.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is Kyle off somewhere arguing with a mirror?

[jersey cubs fan]

So very rarely do 3 of nsbb's most prolific arguers come together to join in such a meaningless nitpick. This is one for the ages.

 

I just can't let blatant wrongness lie there like that.

[sneakypower]

No, it's not the exact same thing. Ryno was a SS who moved to 3B and then 2B in order to get a shot in the majors.

this is an even better narrative, Starlin's gonna get all wise with him about the 3 games at third or whatever it was he did that somehow made the scenarios different

 

"i was looking at your bb-ref page, you can't trick me, Methuselah"

[javy knows my name]

So very rarely do 3 of nsbb's most prolific arguers come together to join in such a meaningless nitpick. This is one for the ages.

 

I just can't let blatant wrongness lie there like that.

haha, damn, jersey, I thought you were 3 people