Castro eventually to 3rd?

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah lemahieu seemed like kind of a pointless pick given the presence of ryan flaherty in the system.

[ScrubMD]

The problem with moving Castro to 2b if Lee makes it is that it will be a tough sell to make a home-grown, all-star SS switch positions. Especially if Castro doesn't like the idea. And even more especially if Castro cuts down one the mistakes and ends up a near gold glove caliber SS.

[Tracer Bullet]

it's a little odd to be talking about moving castro at this point, given that lee is somewhere between 2-3 years from being ML ready (on the fast track). I'm not saying the Cubs shouldn't be thinking about that possibility, but i doubt anyone in the front office is spending huge chunks of time worrying about this quite yet. if you have 2 really good young SS, you trade one for a really good player at another position or you move one (most likely to 2B). Doesn't seem that difficult.

[sneakypower]

the Rangers made Michael Young switch positions twice to make room for unproven young guys and he was sort of the face of the franchise

 

it wasn't a real big deal, and shouldn't be a big deal for Castro to move to 2nd if need be

[jersey cubs fan]

I think we're a long way away from needing to worry about this.

[17 Seconds]

the Rangers made Michael Young switch positions twice to make room for unproven young guys and he was sort of the face of the franchise

 

When he changed positions the first time, he was basically a nobody. And when he switched the second time, it was in large part due to the fact that he was atrocious at shortstop.

[sneakypower]

i wasn't really suggesting that the two situations would be analogous down to every solitary last element

[17 Seconds]

i wasn't really suggesting that the two situations would be analogous down to every solitary last element

 

But if the reason for Young moving to 3B was primarily because of his bad defense at short, then he really is irrelevant to this conversation.

[risico]

Lee is too far away from the big leagues to be having this discussion right now.

[imb]

i wasn't really suggesting that the two situations would be analogous down to every solitary last element

 

But if the reason for Young moving to 3B was primarily because of his bad defense at short, then he really is irrelevant to this conversation.

 

aren't we talking about Lee moving castro off short because Lee is superior defensively? In that case, we're still talking about moving an established guy out of a position because of a better defender waiting in the wings.

[17 Seconds]

that's still different though. michael young couldn't cut it as a shortstop anymore. it was really a necessity that they move him from there. moving castro owuld be moving an above average defender away from his natural position before he even hits his prime. i'm not even saying i'd disagree with it, but michael young was a different situation.

[17 Seconds]

Between Lee and Castro, doesn't Lee have a stronger arm? I thought I remembered hearing (or reading) that he was throwing in the upper 90's. Would the stronger arm be better at the 5 or 6?

 

i thought it was castro with the stronger arm

[Tracer Bullet]

that's still different though. michael young couldn't cut it as a shortstop anymore. it was really a necessity that they move him from there. moving castro owuld be moving an above average defender away from his natural position before he even hits his prime. i'm not even saying i'd disagree with it, but michael young was a different situation.

 

I'm not saying Young was a great defensive SS, but he moved to 3B the year after he won a GG at short, right?

 

They moved him to short b/c they needed to replace ARod. They moved him to third b/c they wanted to give Andrus a shot in the majors. The situations aren't completely analogous, but they moved an established player to give a young, unproven, but better defender a chance at the position. It's similar to what the Cubs did with Theriot this year and it would be similar if they did it with Castro and Lee in 2-3 years. It's similar. It doesn't have to be exactly the same thing.

[jersey cubs fan]

that's still different though. michael young couldn't cut it as a shortstop anymore. it was really a necessity that they move him from there. moving castro owuld be moving an above average defender away from his natural position before he even hits his prime. i'm not even saying i'd disagree with it, but michael young was a different situation.

 

I'm not saying Young was a great defensive SS, but he moved to 3B the year after he won a GG at short, right?

 

They moved him to short b/c they needed to replace ARod. They moved him to third b/c they wanted to give Andrus a shot in the majors. The situations aren't completely analogous, but they moved an established player to give a young, unproven, but better defender a chance at the position. It's similar to what the Cubs did with Theriot this year and it would be similar if they did it with Castro and Lee in 2-3 years. It's similar. It doesn't have to be exactly the same thing.

 

The similiarities are quite weak though. One guy was a temporary SS, another guy was a placeholder SS. Neither came up as a SS. They played out of position due to a need. Castro has been a SS from day one as a pro. If Lee ever makes it to the majors, odds are Castro will be an established high quality SS in his prime, with no history of playing another position. That's not the case in those other situations. Guys get moved off short in their 30's all the time. This has nothing to do with that.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah, i have to agree... moving a guy like michael young (lol at his 2008 gold glove, by the way) off shortstop when his defense had been panned for years is different than moving 23 or 24 year old starlin castro off the position when he's likely going to be an above-average defender.

[Tracer Bullet]

so we've clearly established that the situations are not identical, which is an argument that exactly no one has made. Glad that's settled.

[TruffleShuffle]

nobody has given any sort of reasonable precedent for an early to mid 20s, good shortstop who's above average defensively being moved for a guy who seems like he'd be better defensively.

[Guest]

Young played SS for over 30% of his minor league career, he was clearly familiar with the position.

 

The original point was that you have an All-Star caliber SS, it might be a tough sell to move them to a different position. Young's situation is analogous because he's an All-Star caliber SS and moved to a different spot so the team could be better off defensively. The fact that moving Young made those two spots okay and good(improving upon awful and good) instead of awesome and awesome(improving on good and awesome) like Lee/Castro would do is irrelevant.

[sneakypower]

nobody has given any sort of reasonable precedent for an early to mid 20s, good shortstop who's above average defensively being moved for a guy who seems like he'd be better defensively.

why does it have to be SS, that's dumb

 

what's going to make Castro more recalcitrant to move than established stars like Chipper Jones, Cabrera, Young, Soriano were?

[Tracer Bullet]

nobody has given any sort of reasonable precedent for an early to mid 20s, good shortstop who's above average defensively being moved for a guy who seems like he'd be better defensively.

 

and no one's saying that's what has to happen. some people are saying Castro might be moved (and pointed to an established SS being moved for a younger, better defender, which also happened with the Cubs just a few months ago). some people are saying there could be a trade. some people are saying it's way too early to even be worried about this.

 

i'm not sure if there is an identical situation in baseball history. but I don't much care. the Cubs will move one of the 2 to a different position, trade one (or both, I suppose), or let one linger in the minors or on the bench. if none of those things has ever happened before, it's going to happen now for the first time. continually pointing out that there are differences between this hypothetical situation and a situation thrown out as somewhat similar, when no one is saying there aren't differences, is really sort of frustrating.

[jersey cubs fan]

so we've clearly established that the situations are not identical, which is an argument that exactly no one has made. Glad that's settled.

 

They aren't identical, and they aren't particularly similar either.

[jersey cubs fan]

Young played SS for over 30% of his minor league career, he was clearly familiar with the position.

 

The original point was that you have an All-Star caliber SS, it might be a tough sell to move them to a different position. Young's situation is analogous because he's an All-Star caliber SS and moved to a different spot so the team could be better off defensively. The fact that moving Young made those two spots okay and good(improving upon awful and good) instead of awesome and awesome(improving on good and awesome) like Lee/Castro would do is irrelevant.

 

It's quite different. He was in his 30s and really bad fielding the position. He also spent most of his time not playing SS before then. Castro is much younger has almost exclusively played SS and presumably will be quite good at it at the time of a move possibly happening.

 

They are not similar situations. Young had to move, and it was convenient they had a guy to fill the spot. Castro should not have to move.

[Tracer Bullet]

so we've clearly established that the situations are not identical, which is an argument that exactly no one has made. Glad that's settled.

 

They aren't identical, and they aren't particularly similar either.

 

they're analogous, jersey. they just are. i'm not sure why that's unacceptable to you. but if it is, so be it. the cubs are going to resolve the situation if Lee continues to progress and Castro proves to be a very good MLB SS. how they do so, no one knows. but if they choose to resolve it in a way that isn't sufficient similar to any situation in the past for your liking, such is life.

[sneakypower]

Young played SS for over 30% of his minor league career, he was clearly familiar with the position.

 

The original point was that you have an All-Star caliber SS, it might be a tough sell to move them to a different position. Young's situation is analogous because he's an All-Star caliber SS and moved to a different spot so the team could be better off defensively. The fact that moving Young made those two spots okay and good(improving upon awful and good) instead of awesome and awesome(improving on good and awesome) like Lee/Castro would do is irrelevant.

 

It's quite different. He was in his 30s and really bad fielding the position. He also spent most of his time not playing SS before then. Castro is much younger has almost exclusively played SS and presumably will be quite good at it at the time of a move possibly happening.

 

They are not similar situations. Young had to move, and it was convenient they had a guy to fill the spot. Castro should not have to move.

i love this narrative. like the Rangers approached Young and said "you're really terrible at fielding, guy" and he's all like "i had no idea, tell me what i must do!"

[jersey cubs fan]

nobody has given any sort of reasonable precedent for an early to mid 20s, good shortstop who's above average defensively being moved for a guy who seems like he'd be better defensively.

why does it have to be SS, that's dumb

 

what's going to make Castro more recalcitrant to move than established stars like Chipper Jones, Cabrera, Young, Soriano were?

 

Cabrera moved because he was a porker that couldn't handle the position. Soriano moved because he sucked and was forced into it by a hard ass manager. He initially refused. Young moved to the more high profile position, and then moved off it in his 30's when everybody else does. Chipper moved off of shortstop because that is what young kids who want a shot at the majors do when their is a big leaguer at their position. He was also really big for the position and doubtful to handle it longterm.

 

There's more money in being a good hitting shortstop than other positions. In three years, Castro may be positioning himself for his first really big contract that is meant to set him up for life. If he's a 25 year old SS who can hit a little, he's going to make huge money. If he's a 25 year old 3B who can hit a little, not so much. Being a SS means you don't have to hit as much as other players to get the big bucks. Soriano eventually found his Jim Hendry to pay him big hitting middle infielder money as a left fielder. But not everybody can count on Jim Hendry.