Minor League Discussion & Boxes 6-16-10

[Guest]

Always fun. Here's my Top 15 as of today (Castro & Cashner graduated):

1 - Josh Vitters

2 - Brett Jackson

3 - Hak-Ju Lee

4 - Chris Archer

5 - Kenneth McNutt

6 - Jay Jackson

7 - Ryan Flaherty

8 - Larry Suarez

9 - Ronny Morla

10 - Aaron Shafer

11 - D.J. LeMahieu

12 - Matt Cerda

13 - Jordan Latham

14 - Chris Rusin

15 - Jeff Beliveau

Quite a few players have slid on my list (Kyler Burke, Welington Castillo, Brooks Raley, Logan Watkins, Dae-Eun Rhee, Chris Carpenter). Others seemingly just missed (Marco Carrillo, James Leverton, Ty Wright, Matt Spencer, Austin Bibens-Dirkx). Not sure about Thomas Diamond - if he would qualify I like him around 7-10 despite his age. I didn't include anyone playing at Boise or Mesa.

 

At this point I dont see how anyone could have Vitters at #1 ahead of Brett Jackson.

Because he's younger, a level ahead, has more power potential and strikes out far less?

[Outshined_One]

At this point I dont see how anyone could have Vitters at #1 ahead of Brett Jackson.

 

Even I'm at this point, and I've been a proponent of Vitters for awhile. Hell, I could see Brett Jackson vault into people's Top 20 prospects in MLB by season's end at the rate he's going.

[Guest]

I'm starting to feel some love for Brandon Guyer again.

[Guest]

At this point I dont see how anyone could have Vitters at #1 ahead of Brett Jackson.

 

Even I'm at this point, and I've been a proponent of Vitters for awhile. Hell, I could see Brett Jackson vault into people's Top 20 prospects in MLB by season's end at the rate he's going.

The strikeouts are a HUGE concern for me with him. I'm very concerned he'll get exposed at higher levels if he can't make more contact.

[Outshined_One]

At this point I dont see how anyone could have Vitters at #1 ahead of Brett Jackson.

 

Even I'm at this point, and I've been a proponent of Vitters for awhile. Hell, I could see Brett Jackson vault into people's Top 20 prospects in MLB by season's end at the rate he's going.

The strikeouts are a HUGE concern for me with him. I'm very concerned he'll get exposed at higher levels if he can't make more contact.

 

The big reason why the Ks aren't as much of a concern to me is that, in the time I've seen him, he does a good job of working deep counts. Inevitably, that style of hitting will net a guy a lot of walks...and his fair share of strikeouts. Moreover, compared to his Peoria numbers last season, Jackson is striking out substantially less per plate appearance while drawing more walks.

 

I could see him struggle a bit as he advances up the ladder and faces more advanced pitching, but his results to this point have been quite favorable. As long as the Cubs are patient (groan), I think he has the makings of a really good player.

[toonsterwu]

I'm starting to feel some love for Brandon Guyer again.

 

I still think he's got a shot to be Eric Byrnes-ish. Good discipline, has been on a roll of late (last 10 - .317/.349/.756). Seems to run hot and cold on the power front, though.

[Guest]

Always fun. Here's my Top 15 as of today (Castro & Cashner graduated):

1 - Josh Vitters

2 - Brett Jackson

3 - Hak-Ju Lee

4 - Chris Archer

5 - Kenneth McNutt

6 - Jay Jackson

7 - Ryan Flaherty

8 - Larry Suarez

9 - Ronny Morla

10 - Aaron Shafer

11 - D.J. LeMahieu

12 - Matt Cerda

13 - Jordan Latham

14 - Chris Rusin

15 - Jeff Beliveau

Quite a few players have slid on my list (Kyler Burke, Welington Castillo, Brooks Raley, Logan Watkins, Dae-Eun Rhee, Chris Carpenter). Others seemingly just missed (Marco Carrillo, James Leverton, Ty Wright, Matt Spencer, Austin Bibens-Dirkx). Not sure about Thomas Diamond - if he would qualify I like him around 7-10 despite his age. I didn't include anyone playing at Boise or Mesa.

 

At this point I dont see how anyone could have Vitters at #1 ahead of Brett Jackson.

Because he's younger, a level ahead, has more power potential and strikes out far less?

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fyi, Wrigley Rat, Thomas Diamond is still eligible for prospect lists and Starlin Castro officially used up his prospect eligibility today (based on MLB rookie guidelines). I'd love to hear your reasoning on 3 A-ball relievers at 8-10 and another 2 at 13 and 15.

[toonsterwu]

as a total side note, it's quite nice to see that, with one more daytona win, all four of our full season squads will be at .500 or better. Development is the most important thing in the minors, but winning is always ... well, nice.

[CubsWin]

Particularly Morla, who I wish would get some starting looks.

He seems to be being stretched out for exactly that. His last three relief appearances have been for 3 innings each. Perhaps he starts pigging backing first and if he continues to do well, gets put into the rotation. In his last three appearances, he's pitched 9 innings, given up 3 hits, 2 earned runs, struck out 7 and walked none. Keep it up, Ronny!

[Wrigley Rat]

Always fun. Here's my Top 15 as of today (Castro & Cashner graduated):

1 - Josh Vitters

2 - Brett Jackson

3 - Hak-Ju Lee

4 - Chris Archer

5 - Kenneth McNutt

6 - Jay Jackson

7 - Ryan Flaherty

8 - Larry Suarez

9 - Ronny Morla

10 - Aaron Shafer

11 - D.J. LeMahieu

12 - Matt Cerda

13 - Jordan Latham

14 - Chris Rusin

15 - Jeff Beliveau

Quite a few players have slid on my list (Kyler Burke, Welington Castillo, Brooks Raley, Logan Watkins, Dae-Eun Rhee, Chris Carpenter). Others seemingly just missed (Marco Carrillo, James Leverton, Ty Wright, Matt Spencer, Austin Bibens-Dirkx). Not sure about Thomas Diamond - if he would qualify I like him around 7-10 despite his age. I didn't include anyone playing at Boise or Mesa.

 

Can I ask why on 8-10? Particularly Morla, who I wish would get some starting looks.

 

Let's see, my top 16 from full season guys (leaving out lower level guys, draft picks, and some international signings like Jin-Yeong Kim)

 

1. Brett Jackson - I believe the power will come.

2. Jay Jackson - Readiness makes a difference here. Should be in the bigs in 2011. Somewhat hoping he gets to the bigs this year to see if Larry Rothschild can help amp up the slider a bit.

 

3. Josh Vitters - Still the most talented bat in the system, but at this stage in his development, he is what he is, a streaky player.

4. Chris Archer - I'm very curious about how his stuff plays in AA, but even with the stuff from last year, the fact that he's added control and limited the HR's now makes him an intriguing starting pitching prospect.

5. Hak-Ju Lee - The bat's a work in progress, but considering positional value and league, I'm pleased.

6. Kenneth McNutt - Big time arm, have him behind Lee as McNutt has to add to his arsenal, but if he does, he could really jump.

7. Chris Carpenter - His ceiling seems more of "4" starter that might be a decent "3" some years, and he still has some command issues to work out.

 

8. Ryan Flaherty - Still offers solid pop for a possible MI, but very curious if he can adjust to AA in the 2nd go around.

9. Chris Rusin - Sliding him up a bit. He's been on a real roll of late, and looks more and more like the polished lefty that we had hoped that we had drafted. Excellent control.

10. Thomas Diamond - Still rookie eligible. Looks like a possible end of the rotation arm or BP guy.

11. Casey Coleman - Won't be great, but readiness matters to me, and he looks like a possible end of the rotation arm soon.

12. Dae-Eun Rhee - I'm willing to give him some time. Still not sure he's a starter. Does generate the ground balls, and I'll wait and see if he can K some folks with more time away from surgery.

13. Welington Castillo - Has pop, decent discipline, and is decent-solid defensively. He won't hit for average, but looks like a decent backup backstop that's close to ready.

14. DJ LeMahieu - Was really down on him early in the year, but his bat has gotten a bit better. Very, very curious how his bat handles AA.

15. Rafael Dolis - Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as well. Just don't think he's a starter. The reports on his stuff still seem solid, and as such, I wonder if he takes off if he moves to the pen.

16. Kyler Burke - Was going to have him lower, but he's had some bad luck in A+. That said, he still has to perform, and the bad luck can't explain away everything. Still one of the more talented bats in the system.

I feel as though Morla is a Jose Ceda type steal - I believe in our scouts who check out other team's minor league systems. Larry Suarez had some hype when he was signed, is still only 20, and is producing. I expect it to continue as long as they don't rush him. Aaron Shafer was someone I liked after the draft, but didn't perform well immediately. He's absolutely dominating in the bullpen. I want to see if it translates up a level or if he gets another crack at starting.

[Wrigley Rat]

Always fun. Here's my Top 15 as of today (Castro & Cashner graduated):

1 - Josh Vitters

2 - Brett Jackson

3 - Hak-Ju Lee

4 - Chris Archer

5 - Kenneth McNutt

6 - Jay Jackson

7 - Ryan Flaherty

8 - Larry Suarez

9 - Ronny Morla

10 - Aaron Shafer

11 - D.J. LeMahieu

12 - Matt Cerda

13 - Jordan Latham

14 - Chris Rusin

15 - Jeff Beliveau

Quite a few players have slid on my list (Kyler Burke, Welington Castillo, Brooks Raley, Logan Watkins, Dae-Eun Rhee, Chris Carpenter). Others seemingly just missed (Marco Carrillo, James Leverton, Ty Wright, Matt Spencer, Austin Bibens-Dirkx). Not sure about Thomas Diamond - if he would qualify I like him around 7-10 despite his age. I didn't include anyone playing at Boise or Mesa.

 

At this point I dont see how anyone could have Vitters at #1 ahead of Brett Jackson.

Because he's younger, a level ahead, has more power potential and strikes out far less?

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fyi, Wrigley Rat, Thomas Diamond is still eligible for prospect lists and Starlin Castro officially used up his prospect eligibility today (based on MLB rookie guidelines). I'd love to hear your reasoning on 3 A-ball relievers at 8-10 and another 2 at 13 and 15.

I think I put them there for a few reasons. First, I limited my list to just the full-season clubs, which gave me fewer strong choices. Second, guys like Morla, Shafer and Rusin have started and will probably start again soon. The Cubs start their strongest prospect regardless of where they project early on in their careers to get them innings (I know you know that). After these guys get their acts together in the bullpen, I really think they will become starters again. Their peripherals are very strong. Their ages for their levels are not too far off. I'm sure there's more, but I'm on my way out the door. I love the discussion though and look forward to others' top 15ish lists soon!

[jersey cubs fan]

btw - I REALLY want Archer, Gaub and Stevens to all come up and contribute so that we can stop hearing about DeRosa.

 

Are people still talking about that? I'll admit to being disappointed with the trade when it happened, but we potentially got 3 arms that will play in the majors (here's hoping, primarily with Archer, as I think Gaub will definitely see the bigs for a bit at least) and any trade you can get three arms like that is a good.

yeah, I still hear people complaining.

 

You'd think DeRosa being awful last year would have been enough to squelch it, actually.

I hear Kaplan throw his name out for no good reason, but I rarely hear anybody actually talk about DeRosa.

[jersey cubs fan]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

[Guest]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

 

Because if he was hitting reasonably well in Daytona instead, he'd still be ahead of Jackson because of the age difference at the same level. We'll never know, and that's why you scale it that way.

[Guest]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

You have to take his age/level into account when looking at his performance at AA relative to what Jackson is doing at A+

[jersey cubs fan]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

 

Because if he was hitting reasonably well in Daytona instead, he'd still be ahead of Jackson because of the age difference at the same level. We'll never know, and that's why you scale it that way.

 

But he's not hitting reasonably well at Daytona.

[Guest]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

 

Because if he was hitting reasonably well in Daytona instead, he'd still be ahead of Jackson because of the age difference at the same level. We'll never know, and that's why you scale it that way.

 

But he's not hitting reasonably well at Daytona.

 

Yes he was, at the very least if you want to make the Jackson comparison, especially when you consider that he was getting hot at the time of his promotion.

[toonsterwu]

I feel as though Morla is a Jose Ceda type steal - I believe in our scouts who check out other team's minor league systems. Larry Suarez had some hype when he was signed, is still only 20, and is producing. I expect it to continue as long as they don't rush him. Aaron Shafer was someone I liked after the draft, but didn't perform well immediately. He's absolutely dominating in the bullpen. I want to see if it translates up a level or if he gets another crack at starting.

 

I'm a fan of Morla's stuff, but until the Cubs give him a shot in the rotation, I find it hard to put him higher, but that's me.

 

Everyone grades differently. I have a hard time putting A level arms that profile more as middle relievers (Suarez could perhaps be a setup, maybe Morla, not sure on Shafer) that high, but again, that's me.

 

I am hoping Suarez gets a shot in the rotation.

[toonsterwu]

I feel like we'll have an answer on Vitters/Jackson soon enough (at least, relative to who should be ahead at this stage of their careers in a list). Hard to imagine the Cubs keeping Brett down there if he continues to stay hot.

[ScrubMD]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

 

Because if he was hitting reasonably well in Daytona instead, he'd still be ahead of Jackson because of the age difference at the same level. We'll never know, and that's why you scale it that way.

 

But he's not hitting reasonably well at Daytona.

 

I suspect you're mixing up Daytona and Tennessee, but if not:

 

.291/.350/.445/.795

 

That's definitely reasonably well.

[jersey cubs fan]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

 

Because if he was hitting reasonably well in Daytona instead, he'd still be ahead of Jackson because of the age difference at the same level. We'll never know, and that's why you scale it that way.

 

But he's not hitting reasonably well at Daytona.

 

I suspect you're mixing up Daytona and Tennessee, but if not:

 

.291/.350/.445/.795

 

That's definitely reasonably well.

 

He's not at Daytona.

[Donzo1679666396]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably.

 

Link?

[jersey cubs fan]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably.

 

Link?

 

to what?

[chopsx9]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably.

 

Link?

 

 

Nicely Done.

 

I agree with JCF. I understand all the other points but at I'd still give the nudge to Jackson at this point. It's just nice to be able to have this debate about position players.

 

"Link?" - I'm still giggling like a school girl.

[ScrubMD]

Vitters is only a level ahead because the Cubs promoted him unjustifiably. I don't see how that can count for him when looking at rankings, because he sure as hell didn't accomplish anything to get that promotion.

 

Because if he was hitting reasonably well in Daytona instead, he'd still be ahead of Jackson because of the age difference at the same level. We'll never know, and that's why you scale it that way.

 

But he's not hitting reasonably well at Daytona.

 

I suspect you're mixing up Daytona and Tennessee, but if not:

 

.291/.350/.445/.795

 

That's definitely reasonably well.

 

He's not at Daytona.

 

So what's your point? His time at Daytona doesn't count? He's a year younger and has already performed well at the level Jackson is currently at (as he has at every level so far after some time to adjust). I definitely like Jackson more and think he has a much better shot at being a productive major leaguer but the argument for Vitters is pretty reasonable.