Fukudome on the Block

[apete6]

I do not understand the Kosuke hate.

 

Low batting average and he spins around when he strikes out sometimes.

 

That and he's owed $13.5 million this year and has never OPS'd over .800. But, yeah, it's the helicopter strikeouts that people hate.

 

He's a nice player with some value, but not that much value.

[jersey cubs fan]

I do not understand the Kosuke hate.

 

Low batting average and he spins around when he strikes out sometimes.

 

That and he's owed $13.5 million this year and has never OPS'd over .800. But, yeah, it's the helicopter strikeouts that people hate.

 

He's a nice player with some value, but not that much value.

 

So are you saying you hate him? Because I was explaining why some people hate him and you sound like you have a semi-reasonable opinion of him. He has an OPS over 800 right now by the way.

[apete6]

I do not understand the Kosuke hate.

 

Low batting average and he spins around when he strikes out sometimes.

 

That and he's owed $13.5 million this year and has never OPS'd over .800. But, yeah, it's the helicopter strikeouts that people hate.

 

He's a nice player with some value, but not that much value.

 

So are you saying you hate him? Because I was explaining why some people hate him and you sound like you have a semi-reasonable opinion of him. He has an OPS over 800 right now by the way.

 

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

[jersey cubs fan]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

[daske17]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Wasn't he also billed as having power and speed? Maybe I'm just making that up, but I don't think so.

[cubfan]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Wasn't he also billed as having power and speed? Maybe I'm just making that up, but I don't think so.

 

I didn't think the expectaions where much higher than 15 HRs a year when he signed maybe 20. Not that he has ever reached this, but I don't remember him being expected to be much of a power bat.

[jersey cubs fan]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Wasn't he also billed as having power and speed? Maybe I'm just making that up, but I don't think so.

 

I didn't think the expectaions where much higher than 15 HRs a year when he signed maybe 20. Not that he has ever reached this, but I don't remember him being expected to be much of a power bat.

 

I think he was billed has having a little more power, but some people assumed he should hit 25. As for speed, I don't remember hearing of him being a burner, but rather a good baserunner and defender.

[dew1679666265]

So the Cubs have an 4 good OFs, one of which could easily get sent to AAA if necessary, and Boston needs an OF. Yet the Cubs are in the position of needing to eat part of a contract to make a trade happen? I must be missing something.

I do not understand the Kosuke hate. He's a nice trade piece and we need to treat him like one.

this seems like a great situation, really. Boston needs a good OF and can handle Kosuke's contract with no problem. I imagine they have something decent we could get in return. And they may not want to wait to see if the price comes down, since there are 2 teams ahead of them in their conference, instead of just one. Given how unlikely it is that Kosuke completely tanks for the next month, this seems like a great time for Hendry to sit and hold his cards.

 

Sasaki is in town as well and working with Kosuke and he usually heats up quite a bit after working with Sasaki.

[Keener98]

Summer swoon hahahaha. My God

[Keener98]

Take it for what its worth but:

 

Baseball sources tell us that Cubs GM Jim Hendry has been very aggressive trying to move Kosuke Fukudome to ease the logjam in his crowded outfield. In fact, we hear that Hendry even offered to eat most of the money left on this year's salary and half of the $14 million that he is owed in 2011

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0622-around-town--20100621,0,786338.column

 

If we have to eat that much money, Id rather just keep him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Take it for what its worth but:

 

Baseball sources tell us that Cubs GM Jim Hendry has been very aggressive trying to move Kosuke Fukudome to ease the logjam in his crowded outfield. In fact, we hear that Hendry even offered to eat most of the money left on this year's salary and half of the $14 million that he is owed in 2011

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0622-around-town--20100621,0,786338.column

 

If we have to eat that much money, Id rather just keep him.

 

Either that or wait until next year when he starts the year hitting near .400 and try to move him then.

 

Seriously though, if Hendry were to do this, hes essentially paying 20 million(or whatever we end up eating) for Tyler Colvin, and as much as I like Colvin, it aint worth it.

 

Depending on how they feel about Colvins CF skills it makes you wonder if the wiser move would be selling high on Marlon Byrd rather than take a massive bath on Fukudome. Granted that at about 3 mil/year, it was a rare great free agent signing by Hendry, but hes playing well over his head IMHO, and other teams might be very interested in him with his great numbers so far and cheap salary. If we could get a nice prospect package in return, it could be worth it. Then wed have Sori, Colvin, and Fukudome from left to right, and Nady could fill in for either Fukudome or Colvin(with Fuku in center) vs. the tougher lefties.

[dew1679666265]

Take it for what its worth but:

 

Baseball sources tell us that Cubs GM Jim Hendry has been very aggressive trying to move Kosuke Fukudome to ease the logjam in his crowded outfield. In fact, we hear that Hendry even offered to eat most of the money left on this year's salary and half of the $14 million that he is owed in 2011

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0622-around-town--20100621,0,786338.column

 

If we have to eat that much money, Id rather just keep him.

 

Unless we'd be getting 1-2 really, really good prospects there's no reason to trade Fuku and eat most of his money.

 

There really shouldn't be a rush to open a spot for Colvin. He's not out of options and he's still fairly young. If nobody is interested now because of money, keep him until the offseason or the deadline next year and trade him then. Eating a ton of money and getting little in return makes no sense whatsoever at this point.

[chopsx9]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Legitimate Question: How has it been debunked?

His stats last 2 years at the end of May:

2008 .310/.412/.854

2009 .309/.439/.946

 

Totals by seasons end

 

2008 .257/.359/.738

2009 .259/.379/.796

 

How is that not a swoon? I've seen the argument where there are "summer" months that he has hit well - but I could care less if he hits .650 one month if he's going to hit .015 the other months.

 

He certainly has value but I don't see how you can say over his 2 year history that his offense isn't significantly worse after May.

 

I absolutely hope that changes this year but that's not going to change the past.

[Sammy Sofa]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Legitimate Question: How has it been debunked?

His stats last 2 years at the end of May:

2008 .310/.412/.854

2009 .309/.439/.946

 

Totals by seasons end

 

2008 .257/.359/.738

2009 .259/.379/.796

 

How is that not a swoon? I've seen the argument where there are "summer" months that he has hit well - but I could care less if he hits .650 one month if he's going to hit .015 the other months.

 

He certainly has value but I don't see how you can say over his 2 year history that his offense isn't significantly worse after May.

 

I absolutely hope that changes this year but that's not going to change the past.

 

Well, you're wrong.

 

Here's Fukudome's May last year:

 

.277 .415 .415 .830

 

Here's July:

 

.307 .392 .534 .926

 

Here's August:

 

.287 .398 .506 .904

 

His total numbers were dragged down by his horrible June (.169 .266 .241 .507) and September (.200 .338 .286 .624).

 

So your general assertion that he hits worse after May doesn't work since he had two months after May where he produced BETTER than he did after May. His good months post-May covered 52 games. His bad months covered 52 games. His good first two months covered 42 games. Why do the bad months outweigh the good ones when clearly he was producing for a significantly larger portion of the season?

[17 Seconds]

i think it's more accurate to say that fukudome is a red-hot starter who tends to go through bad slumps later in the season

[Sammy Sofa]

i think it's more accurate to say that fukudome is a red-hot starter who tends to go through bad slumps later in the season

 

Indeed.

[chopsx9]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Legitimate Question: How has it been debunked?

His stats last 2 years at the end of May:

2008 .310/.412/.854

2009 .309/.439/.946

 

Totals by seasons end

 

2008 .257/.359/.738

2009 .259/.379/.796

 

How is that not a swoon? I've seen the argument where there are "summer" months that he has hit well - but I could care less if he hits .650 one month if he's going to hit .015 the other months.

 

He certainly has value but I don't see how you can say over his 2 year history that his offense isn't significantly worse after May.

 

I absolutely hope that changes this year but that's not going to change the past.

 

Well, you're wrong.

 

Here's Fukudome's May last year:

 

.277 .415 .415 .830

 

Here's July:

 

.307 .392 .534 .926

 

Here's August:

 

.287 .398 .506 .904

 

His total numbers were dragged down by his horrible June (.169 .266 .241 .507) and September (.200 .338 .286 .624).

 

So your general assertion that he hits worse after May doesn't work since he had two months after May where he produced BETTER than he did after May. His good months post-May covered 52 games. His bad months covered 52 games. His good first two months covered 42 games. Why do the bad months outweigh the good ones when clearly he was producing for a significantly larger portion of the season?

 

Which of my numbers is wrong? I gave his numbers at the end of May and again at the end of the season. You gave his numbers for the month of May. That's not the same thing. So you are right an apple isn't an orange but that has nothing to do with anything.

 

My "general assertion" does work. Again I don't care if there are specific months where he has hit well - his overall numbers after May are worse than they are for April and May. The bad months outweigh the good because his bad months are "worse" than his good months are "better". That's why his line ends up where it has the last two years. If he was 'clearly he was producing for a significantly larger portion of the season" his numbers would better - They are not. I even said in my original post but I'll say it again - I could care less if he hits .650 in one month if he is going to .015 in the others.

 

His combine slash stats for April & May > combined slash stats for June, July August September October. By a pretty wide margin.

[chopsx9]

i think it's more accurate to say that fukudome is a red-hot starter who tends to go through bad slumps later in the season

 

Indeed.

 

Absolutely. How is that different than saying his April/May numbers are better than his June to Oct numbers??

[Sammy Sofa]

No I don't hate him at all, but I can see why some non-reasonable people could hate him. And yes, his OPS is over .800 right now, but it probably has been the past few years as well before his summer swoon.

 

So you're completely unaware of how many times the "summer swoon" myth has been debunked?

 

Yes, I can see why they hate him, because he has a low batting average (the most cited stat when talking about what a disappointment he is) and he spins when he strikes out (the thing most often referenced when mocking him).

 

Legitimate Question: How has it been debunked?

His stats last 2 years at the end of May:

2008 .310/.412/.854

2009 .309/.439/.946

 

Totals by seasons end

 

2008 .257/.359/.738

2009 .259/.379/.796

 

How is that not a swoon? I've seen the argument where there are "summer" months that he has hit well - but I could care less if he hits .650 one month if he's going to hit .015 the other months.

 

He certainly has value but I don't see how you can say over his 2 year history that his offense isn't significantly worse after May.

 

I absolutely hope that changes this year but that's not going to change the past.

 

Well, you're wrong.

 

Here's Fukudome's May last year:

 

.277 .415 .415 .830

 

Here's July:

 

.307 .392 .534 .926

 

Here's August:

 

.287 .398 .506 .904

 

His total numbers were dragged down by his horrible June (.169 .266 .241 .507) and September (.200 .338 .286 .624).

 

So your general assertion that he hits worse after May doesn't work since he had two months after May where he produced BETTER than he did after May. His good months post-May covered 52 games. His bad months covered 52 games. His good first two months covered 42 games. Why do the bad months outweigh the good ones when clearly he was producing for a significantly larger portion of the season?

 

Which of my numbers is wrong? I gave his numbers at the end of May and again at the end of the season. You gave his numbers for the month of May. That's not the same thing. So you are right an apple isn't an orange but that has nothing to do with anything.

 

My "general assertion" does work. Again I don't care if there are specific months where he has hit well - his overall numbers after May are worse than they are for April and May. The bad months outweigh the good because his bad months are "worse" than his good months are "better". That's why his line ends up where it has the last two years. If he was 'clearly he was producing for a significantly larger portion of the season" his numbers would better - They are not. I even said in my original post but I'll say it again - I could care less if he hits .650 in one month if he is going to .015 in the others.

 

His combine slash stats for April & May > combined slash stats for June, July August September October. By a pretty wide margin.

 

Wait, why are the only things that can be compared are April & May vs. the rest of the year? That's completely arbitrary. Why not compare his April and May of last year to his July and August? Ah, right, because that wouldn't allow you to dismiss the rest of his season after May, nevermind he has two months where he actually outperformed what he did in May, which makes framing his season as if he dropped off after a month of world beating never to recover even more ridiculous.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Sammy Sofa

[Sammy Sofa]

i think it's more accurate to say that fukudome is a red-hot starter who tends to go through bad slumps later in the season

 

Indeed.

 

Absolutely. How is that different than saying his April/May numbers are better than his June to Oct numbers??

 

Because that's not the only way his season can be broken down and it's far too broad a generalization. You keep tossing this out there like we have to look at his season this way. Why do the first two good months count together, but the later two good months have to be lumped in with the bad months? Why not compared the first 3 months vs. the last 3 months? Why not compare the 4 good months vs. the 2 bad months? Why is May a "better" month than July and August?

[chopsx9]

Wait, why are the only things that can be compared are April & May vs. the rest of the year? That's completely arbitrary. Why not compare his April and May of last year to his July and August? .

It is not arbitrary. The statement made was the he starts fast and his numbers fade over the last four months of the season. That has been the pattern - I know you favour comparing apples to oranges but doesn't make any sense. That's why you compare the same period in each year. I am picking the same months from each year to compare - you are picking different months from each year - you are being far more arbitraty than I.

 

nevermind he has two months where he actually outperformed what he did in May,.

 

LOL Why are you only looking at May. What happened to April??? April is part of April and May. Because that weakens the argument you just leave it out??

 

That assertation was those months the last two years have been better than the last four. Sure there have been periods during those months where has hit well but if you but they are different each year. Where to this point April and May, through 3 years, have been similar.

 

The suggestion that splitting the season in two at the same point every year is too arbitrary but then supporting your arguments by pulling different smaller periods each year is laughable.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The statement made was the he starts fast and his numbers fade over the last four months of the season. That has been the pattern

That happened in 08, but it didn't happen in 09. That's not much of a pattern.

[cubfan]

It can be said that he runs either hot or cold, or he is inconsistant but saying he swoons or drops off after the first few months is miss leading. It implies that he hits great for two months then slowly drops off and/or levels off at a preformance less than his first few months and this is not true. His stat line is not a downward slope, its a rollercoster.

[Sammy Sofa]

Wait, why are the only things that can be compared are April & May vs. the rest of the year? That's completely arbitrary. Why not compare his April and May of last year to his July and August? .

It is not arbitrary. The statement made was the he starts fast and his numbers fade over the last four months of the season. That has been the pattern - I know you favour comparing apples to oranges but doesn't make any sense. That's why you compare the same period in each year. I am picking the same months from each year to compare - you are picking different months from each year - you are being far more arbitraty than I.

 

nevermind he has two months where he actually outperformed what he did in May,.

 

LOL Why are you only looking at May. What happened to April??? April is part of April and May. Because that weakens the argument you just leave it out??

 

That assertation was those months the last two years have been better than the last four. Sure there have been periods during those months where has hit well but if you but they are different each year. Where to this point April and May, through 3 years, have been similar.

 

The suggestion that splitting the season in two at the same point every year is too arbitrary but then supporting your arguments by pulling different smaller periods each year is laughable.

 

What in God's name are you talking about? I'm pointing out how you're arbitrarily splitting the season up into two very different periods just to spin it to fit your point. I was saying you should use different arbitrary comparisons; I was pointing just some of the combinations you could do that would presumably have equal weight to the arbitrary combination and generalization you're flogging to make your point.

 

I'm not "ignoring" any month. He was excellent in April; he was also excellent in July and August. You keep pushing April/May as some kind of period of great play he never duplicated, but he essentially did for another two month period later in the season. So why do you examine the first two month period on its own, but the second two month stretch of good play can only be looked at when lumped in with the two sub par months? See what I'm getting at? Your analysis of his year is totally arbitrary. You're doing everything you can to downplay his later good play, nevermind it's a two month stretch that's actually better than April and May, so that you can sum it up so it sounds like he's a got a 2-year pattern going where he slides after the first two months.

[lumafia]

He sucked in July and August of 08, in June of 09, and in June of 10.

 

In reality, it's just too small of a sample size at this point. If he sucks in July and/or August of this year, you may be on to something.