2010 World Cup Thread

[Derwood]

In all of "our" sports, you will see the umpires and referees get together as a group to try to get the call right.

 

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/06/04/alg_donald_out.jpg

Which other umpire had as good a view of that play?

[TruffleShuffle]

none of them, but in baseball calls are blown all the time, some of them are really important and decide games or, in this case, a perfect game. and there's no replay to determine whether the call was right or wrong.

 

i really don't know that a second referee would do much good in soccer.

[shnsajax]

I have to say, as a non-soccer fan, that call and the complete non-reviewable nature of it has made me feel justified in my apathy. Having stewed on it for a day after the fact, it just feels so whimsical and arbitrary. As a big sports fan, I've wanted to use this world cup to enhance my appreciation for soccer. Hopefully it will still happen. But this incident leaves a bitter taste.

 

In all of "our" sports, you will see the umpires and referees get together as a group to try to get the call right. They'll talk to the players, the coaches to give explanations of the call. They will review replays in many cases to make sure they get it right. In hockey, they will even call the league office in real time to ensure as accurate a judging as possible.

 

In soccer, no such luck. The game is ruled by fiat through the whims of a single authority on the field.

 

In the opinion of a relative outsider, the "beautiful sport" is far too caught up in its "beauty". FIFA should be looking at how they can improve the game so that things like this don't happen.

 

From everything I've heard and read over the past week, though, that is not going to happen any time soon.

 

Yesterday for the most part was an anomaly, and it just so happened to be against the US. For the most part referees do a real good job. I don't think they hold the grudges that baseball umps do and will be replaced pretty quickly after a game like that.

 

You will find more beauty at the club level. Soccer is very much like a jigsaw puzzle, trying to find the right pieces to fit together. They play a different style at the international level vs. the club level. They are also learning to work together for a couple of weeks out of the year vs 11 months at the Club level.

[shnsajax]

none of them, but in baseball calls are blown all the time, some of them are really important and decide games or, in this case, a perfect game. and there's no replay to determine whether the call was right or wrong.

 

i really don't know that a second referee would do much good in soccer.

 

The only thing they will add is goal line technology.

[shnsajax]

Watching Denmark and Cameroon makes me feel pretty good about our backline. They look like the two most unorganized teams at the Cup.

[Butterscup1679666578]

that was a pretty sick goal

[UMFan83]

Why did ABC hold up a graphic saying offsides on that 2nd denmark goal. Weird. The score still says 1-1 but the announcers are saying its 2-1. Stupid Americans.

[UMFan83]

that was a pretty sick goal

 

Agreed, great job getting space.

[shnsajax]

Holland might put up 5 on Cameroon.

[Banedon]

none of them, but in baseball calls are blown all the time, some of them are really important and decide games or, in this case, a perfect game. and there's no replay to determine whether the call was right or wrong.

 

i really don't know that a second referee would do much good in soccer.

 

I agree with you. But I think baseball has the same issue. The only difference is that it uses 4 umps instead of 1 referee. Having only 1 referee covering an area (Soccer=69,300 to 86,400 square feet) that's more than 2/3rds the size of an MLB baseball diamond (Wrigley = 108,000 sq. ft), and where the location of the action can occur on opposite ends of the field...well...it seems to be asking a smidge much.

 

NHL refs have their faults, as does the NFL, but both seem to have a greater attempt to "get it right"...especially when it comes to scoring.

[TruffleShuffle]

when is action occurring on opposite ends of the field in soccer? if a brawl is breaking out at one end? the only purpose i could see for a second referee is for one guy to watch the ball and then another guy to watch for players being obstructed as they're trying to run free.

[shnsajax]

The ref is officially under review.

 

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5304289/ce/us/fifa-ax-us-slovenia-ref-wc?cc=5901&ver=us

[SpongeWorthy]

Pretty good match.

 

I couldn't believe Emana (I think it was him?) passed back to Etoo on the one shot he hit the post on. He should've buried that.

[TruffleShuffle]

i picked cameroon to finish second in that group. oops.

[Guest]

In all of "our" sports, you will see the umpires and referees get together as a group to try to get the call right.

 

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/06/04/alg_donald_out.jpg

Was there any ambiguity about what he was calling? Did he refuse to explain himself either during or after the game?

 

Very different situation - at least the feel of it for a fan.

[bukie]

With the Cameroon loss, the Netherlands are the first team through to the round of 16.

[Guest]

With the Cameroon loss, the Netherlands are the first team through to the round of 16.

 

And Cameroon is the first team eliminated.

[Guest]

none of them, but in baseball calls are blown all the time, some of them are really important and decide games or, in this case, a perfect game. and there's no replay to determine whether the call was right or wrong.

 

i really don't know that a second referee would do much good in soccer.

 

I agree with you. But I think baseball has the same issue. The only difference is that it uses 4 umps instead of 1 referee. Having only 1 referee covering an area (Soccer=69,300 to 86,400 square feet) that's more than 2/3rds the size of an MLB baseball diamond (Wrigley = 108,000 sq. ft), and where the location of the action can occur on opposite ends of the field...well...it seems to be asking a smidge much.

 

NHL refs have their faults, as does the NFL, but both seem to have a greater attempt to "get it right"...especially when it comes to scoring.

 

They don't have the final say but there are two linesmen in soccer as well who handle offsides and whether the ball goes out of bounds, and can also waive their flag for foul calls if they see them.

[Guest]

Comparing it to a safe/out baseball call misses the point. The foul was called on Bocanegra, who was wrapped up with a defender. It's a subjective call. It's like demanding an explanation to a holding penalty that negates a game winning touchdown.

[sweetpeteman]

Elimination things for the third round (So far)

 

 

GROUP A		GP	W	D	L	PTS	GD	GF
 Uruguay	2	1	1	0	4	+3	3
 Mexico	2	1	1	0	4	+2	3
 France	2	0	1	1	1	-2	0
 South Africa	2	0	1	1	1	-3	1

Final Round: MEX vs. URU, FR vs. RSA

MEX vs URU: Either team wins, that team advances. Tie advances both. 
FRA Vs RSA: Tie eliminates both.
Both teams need to Win:
FR:
Must win by 3 with Mexico losing by 2 (GD +1 to 0)
Or win by 4 with URU losing by 3
RSA: 
Must win by 4 with Mexico losing by 2 (GD +1 to 0)
Or win by 5 with URU losing by 3


GROUP B		GP	W	D	L	PTS	GD	GF
 Argentina	2	2	0	0	6	+4	5
 South Korea	2	1	0	1	3	-1	3
 Greece	2	1	0	1	3	-1	2
 Nigeria	2	0	0	2	0	-2	1
FINAL ROUND: ARG vs. GRE, SK vs. NIG
ARG Wins/ties and is in, is essentially in due to Goal Diff. 
If GRE and SK win, goes to Goals
If SK/GRE wins and GRE/SK loses/ties, SK is in.
IF SK and GRE tie, goals. 

 

I made an error or two and am changing a few things, but right now I'm going out to dinner.

Edited June 19, 2010 by sweetpeteman

[Terp]

Doesn't a Denmark - Japan draw advance Japan? Their GD is 0 where Denmark's is -1.

[Magnetic Curses]

Comparing it to a safe/out baseball call misses the point. The foul was called on Bocanegra, who was wrapped up with a defender. It's a subjective call. It's like demanding an explanation to a holding penalty that negates a game winning touchdown.

 

did the ref say that it was a foul on bocanegra? it would be like a ref calling a holding penalty on a game-winning touchdown and refusing to name what kind of call it was until he got an opportunity to watch the film.

[Guest]

Comparing it to a safe/out baseball call misses the point. The foul was called on Bocanegra, who was wrapped up with a defender. It's a subjective call. It's like demanding an explanation to a holding penalty that negates a game winning touchdown.

 

did the ref say that it was a foul on bocanegra? it would be like a ref calling a holding penalty on a game-winning touchdown and refusing to name what kind of call it was until he got an opportunity to watch the film.

 

That's what the official word was, it's not from the ref's mouth. I don't know why he didn't tell the players on the field, my first instinct is that the language barrier was the big reason. That in itself is not a terribly uncommon situation.

[CubColtPacer]

Comparing it to a safe/out baseball call misses the point. The foul was called on Bocanegra, who was wrapped up with a defender. It's a subjective call. It's like demanding an explanation to a holding penalty that negates a game winning touchdown.

 

did the ref say that it was a foul on bocanegra? it would be like a ref calling a holding penalty on a game-winning touchdown and refusing to name what kind of call it was until he got an opportunity to watch the film.

 

That's what the official word was, it's not from the ref's mouth. I don't know why he didn't tell the players on the field, my first instinct is that the language barrier was the big reason. That in itself is not a terribly uncommon situation.

 

I'm surprised that none of the TV coverage has commented on that. They've all speculated that maybe the ref called it on Edu. I haven't heard anybody even today (and they broke the play down on both the morning and afternoon coverage) say that the official called it on Bocanegra.

[UMFan83]

Elimination things for the third round (So far)

 

 

GROUP A		GP	W	D	L	PTS	GD	GF
 Uruguay	2	1	1	0	4	+3	3
 Mexico	2	1	1	0	4	+2	3
 France	2	0	1	1	1	-2	0
 South Africa	2	0	1	1	1	-3	1

Final Round: MEX vs. URU, FR vs. RSA

MEX vs URU: Either team wins, that team advances. Tie advances both. 
FRA Vs RSA: Tie eliminates both.
Both teams need to Win:
FR:
Must win by 3 with Mexico losing by 2 (GD +1 to 0)
Or win by 4 with URU losing by 3
RSA: 
Must win by 4 with Mexico losing by 2 (GD +1 to 0)
Or win by 5 with URU losing by 3


GROUP B		GP	W	D	L	PTS	GD	GF
 Argentina	2	2	0	0	6	+4	5
 South Korea	2	1	0	1	3	-1	3
 Greece	2	1	0	1	3	-1	2
 Nigeria	2	0	0	2	0	-2	1
FINAL ROUND: ARG vs. GRE, SK vs. NIG
ARG Wins/ties and is in, is essentially in due to Goal Diff. 
If GRE and SK win, goes to Goals
If SK/GRE wins and GRE/SK loses/ties, SK is in.
IF SK and GRE tie, goals. 

 

I made an error or two and am changing a few things, but right now I'm going out to dinner.

 

LOL at the thought of France having to score 3 goals.