5/10 Jerklins (Robertson) @ COBS (Lilly) 7:05 CSN

[Keener98]

Too much overreaction. Ramirez 8th? What a slap in the face to probably our best overall hitter over the last 6 years. And now he has 5-6 bad weeks and he hits 8th or is benched? He's too young to be finished so all you can do is wait for him to snap out of it and ask him if he's hurt for some reason.

 

What? It's not like he'd be banished there forever. He's not some fragile little flower blissfully unaware of how bad he is this season. You can't keep a hitter THAT bad in the middle of your lineup.

 

Why not? Does it even really matter? I just think 6 weeks is way too early to be dropping him that far in the lineup. Hit him 6th fine, but 8th is just ridiculous IMO.

 

Edit: Although I guess I remember Torre doing that to ARod in a playoff game once, so maybe I'm overreacting. My point is that it's generally an overreaction. I agree it's testing my patience for him to slump this wrong, but he's obviously got a track record that suggests he'll never snap out of it. It's not like he just randomly got horrible over the offseason. He's too young to be declining at a rapid pace, so he's either hurt or he's in a really bad slump that he'll likely be out of soon.

 

 

He may be "young" but his body has played a lot of baseball, and has had quite a few injuries to it. Im not saying hes done, but stranger things have happened. Moving him down in the lineup isn't a slap in his face at all. Its about the team winning and right now, him and Lee at 3-4 or 3-5 doesn't give this team the best chance at winning. He should understand that, and as soon as he starts swinging it better he moves back up. Its not like hes being benched.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why not? Does it even really matter? I just think 6 weeks is way too early to be dropping him that far in the lineup. Hit him 6th fine, but 8th is just ridiculous IMO.

 

I have him slotted 7th, not 8th. Is there really such a huge difference between hitting him 6th and 7th?

 

It's gotten to the point where it's beyond him simply slumping. He looks nowhere near what he usually is. Outside of a scattered handful of games where he made some "loud outs" he's weakly grounding out/popping out or missing pitches altogether he'd usually feast on. Moving him down keeps him in the lineup and allows him to hopefully work out of it.

[davell]

I didn't get to watch the game and perusing the game thread made me erase it. Then i noticed in the boxscore Castro had THREE errors? What were they?

[UMFan83]

I didn't get to watch the game and perusing the game thread made me erase it. Then i noticed in the boxscore Castro had THREE errors? What were they?

 

1) Signing with the Cubs

2) Staying at Soriano's place last night

3) Asking Lou if he should bunt in the 6th inning of tonight's game

[UMFan83]

I am reading the game story for tonights game, and it talks quite a bit about booing Castro after his errors tonight. Is this true? If so that is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard about our fans in my life. Booing a rookie playing his 4th game in the bigs? Geez there are a lot better targets for booing than Starlin Castro.

[ctcf]

I don't blame Ricketts for not doing anything so far. He's still new to this game and if anything, he'd probably incur flack on many levels if he just came in and started clearing house right now. To paint him as oblivious is just silly.

[J.R.]

I am reading the game story for tonights game, and it talks quite a bit about booing Castro after his errors tonight. Is this true? If so that is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard about our fans in my life. Booing a rookie playing his 4th game in the bigs? Geez there are a lot better targets for booing than Starlin Castro.

 

The booing didn't become noticeable on the TV audio until that last play, where he let Hanley advance to 2nd on a ball he booted. Alyna Banks would have been booed for that play.

[soapy]

Yeah, the only time I noticed the boo-birds (on tv) was after the third error when he gave up the extra base by not hustling to the ball. I think it's pretty reasonable to boo something like that.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am reading the game story for tonights game, and it talks quite a bit about booing Castro after his errors tonight. Is this true? If so that is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard about our fans in my life. Booing a rookie playing his 4th game in the bigs? Geez there are a lot better targets for booing than Starlin Castro.

 

They booed after he stood around watching the ball that allowed Hanley to go to 2nd. I don't see anything pathetic about it. It wasn't a misplay. It was laziness.

[UMFan83]

I am reading the game story for tonights game, and it talks quite a bit about booing Castro after his errors tonight. Is this true? If so that is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard about our fans in my life. Booing a rookie playing his 4th game in the bigs? Geez there are a lot better targets for booing than Starlin Castro.

 

They booed after he stood around watching the ball that allowed Hanley to go to 2nd. I don't see anything pathetic about it. It wasn't a misplay. It was laziness.

 

I realize that but it's his first ever game at home, and he's supposed to be a highly touted prospect, and you are already booing him? Freddie Bynum making 4 errors in 3 innings back in 2006 didn't get as bad of boos as I heard on Sportsnight last night. I don't think it was pure laziness either. I think he was dropping his head in disgust for his own play. Not saying its right because you should always be attentive and its never ok for Hanley to take 2nd. But I just feel like we are booing way too early and often these days and often times it makes us look stupid.

[soapy]

It's stupid to boo a physical error for a player who's just breaking into the league. It's not terribly unreasonable to boo any player who makes a lazy play and it costs his team something (in this case, and extra base which didn't end up hurting them in the end).

 

I'm sure he was just frustrated that he made a mistake, but that doesn't excuse it. It's not a big deal. You move on. But I think it's perfectly reasonable for fans to give it to a player for a lack of effort every once in a while.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am reading the game story for tonights game, and it talks quite a bit about booing Castro after his errors tonight. Is this true? If so that is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard about our fans in my life. Booing a rookie playing his 4th game in the bigs? Geez there are a lot better targets for booing than Starlin Castro.

 

They booed after he stood around watching the ball that allowed Hanley to go to 2nd. I don't see anything pathetic about it. It wasn't a misplay. It was laziness.

 

I realize that but it's his first ever game at home, and he's supposed to be a highly touted prospect, and you are already booing him? Freddie Bynum making 4 errors in 3 innings back in 2006 didn't get as bad of boos as I heard on Sportsnight last night. I don't think it was pure laziness either. I think he was dropping his head in disgust for his own play. Not saying its right because you should always be attentive and its never ok for Hanley to take 2nd. But I just feel like we are booing way too early and often these days and often times it makes us look stupid.

 

They didn't boo him for making an error, they booed him when he acted like a lazy idiot and gave up a base. There's nothing stupid about booing that play. It was really bad.

[UMFan83]

I am reading the game story for tonights game, and it talks quite a bit about booing Castro after his errors tonight. Is this true? If so that is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard about our fans in my life. Booing a rookie playing his 4th game in the bigs? Geez there are a lot better targets for booing than Starlin Castro.

 

They booed after he stood around watching the ball that allowed Hanley to go to 2nd. I don't see anything pathetic about it. It wasn't a misplay. It was laziness.

 

I realize that but it's his first ever game at home, and he's supposed to be a highly touted prospect, and you are already booing him? Freddie Bynum making 4 errors in 3 innings back in 2006 didn't get as bad of boos as I heard on Sportsnight last night. I don't think it was pure laziness either. I think he was dropping his head in disgust for his own play. Not saying its right because you should always be attentive and its never ok for Hanley to take 2nd. But I just feel like we are booing way too early and often these days and often times it makes us look stupid.

 

They didn't boo him for making an error, they booed him when he acted like a lazy idiot and gave up a base. There's nothing stupid about booing that play. It was really bad.

 

I don't think he was being lazy, just inattentive. No excuse for it, but he's a young player that got down on himself for having an awful game and made a stupid play. I don't think he was like 'eh I'm going to take my time because nothing bad will happen", it was more like 'dammit why did I do that again, I am playing so poorly, why are they booi- oh crap' Doesn't make it ok IMO to boo him in his first game at home. I mean whatever if you want to boo fine, but why do we have to alienate all of our players from the fans? He knows he made a bad play, Lou and/or his teammates are going to talk to him about it. The worst thing to do is mess with his confidence and have him stressing that he's going to be booed like crazy if he messes up.

 

Agree to disagree.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think he was being lazy, just inattentive.

 

He turned his back and lolligagged toward the ball. That's lazy. That may not be sit on your couch all day on a Saturday lazy, but in the context of a sporting event, when very little effort will keep the guy at first base, that was absolutely lazy.

[J.R.]

The circumstances surrounding the ballclub also contributed to the reaction. Fans would have been more forgiving had we not just given up another late lead.

[Sammy Sofa]

I realize that but it's his first ever game at home, and he's supposed to be a highly touted prospect, and you are already booing him? Freddie Bynum making 4 errors in 3 innings back in 2006 didn't get as bad of boos as I heard on Sportsnight last night.

 

Bynum got savaged by the boo-birds that game, including when he came up to the plate. Castro got some after his 3rd error, and it was one that resulted from just piss-poor, inexcusable baseball. He didn't get anything when he came up to bat after that.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Sammy Sofa

[J.R.]

I had completely forgotten Bynum. The mind has miraculous healing powers.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I had completely forgotten Bynum. The mind has miraculous healing powers.

 

When you get to be my age, they call it senility !! :evil:

[UMFan83]

I realize that but it's his first ever game at home, and he's supposed to be a highly touted prospect, and you are already booing him? Freddie Bynum making 4 errors in 3 innings back in 2006 didn't get as bad of boos as I heard on Sportsnight last night.

 

Bynum got savaged by the boo-birds that game, including when he came up to the plate. Castro got some after his 3rd error, and it was one that resulted from just piss-poor baseball. He didn't get anything when he came up to bat after that.

 

I know he did, I was at that game. It just wasn't as bad as it sounded like Castro got it judging upon hearing the replay. Not exactly scientific I know, especially because the Cubs were 2 months away from any sort of meaningful baseball, and the stadium was less than full.

[Ballgame64]

What better way to distract from a horrible product than by having fans criticize one another about booing. The next step is for someone associated with the team to complain about the booing. Every player/coach/front office person should have the same attitude as Soriano about booing. "If I play better they will cheer."

 

The Cubs have the highest average ticket price in the league so why shouldn't fans expect a better product. They are being charged for prime rib and are getting hamburgers. I know it is a supply/demand thing, but would the team prefer fans who express their anger in a smarter way like not buying tickets?

 

Castro was the target because of a play in which he compounded a physical error by not hustling to the ball and allowing a runner to take 2nd base. But let's be honest, it would not have surprised any of us if any other player did the same thing. That to me is the bigger problem with this team. There should be a higher level of accountability. There is no excuse for the lack of effort.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Cubs have the highest average ticket price in the league so why shouldn't fans expect a better product. They are being charged for prime rib and are getting hamburgers.

 

Not true, I like hamburger.

[UMFan83]

I just don't understand the positive effect of booing in many situations. Does it make the player play better? Is Soriano going to try to focus harder to not strike out the next time he's up with the bases loaded? Is John Grabow going to throw better pitches because of booing? Does it make the fan feel better to blow off steam with a nice hearty boo? You can do it if you want, whatever, I'm not saying you can't, I just can't see how it makes the team better or make the person booing feel better. It must though because the booing keeps getting worse at Wrigley

 

The only booing that I think is justified is when its an issue of effort. Soriano stares at a fly ball off the wall and gets thrown out at 2nd, that's worth a boo. When a player boots a ground ball not so much. I have turned my opinion slightly on Castro getting boo'ed. I still don't think he should have been, but at the heat of the moment I can see why they did, because it is as I admitted inexcusible for Ramirez to take 2nd there. I just wish we hadn't on his first home game when he was clearly pissed off at himself for making another error and lost his focus for a minute. If he was a 10 year veteran, I'd be livid. But a 20 year old rookie playing in his 4th MLB game, probably not. He'll get enough crap from Lou and his teammates, he doesn't need to have shaken confidence performing in front of 40,000 booing fans.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just don't understand the positive effect of booing in many situations.

 

It's voicing frustration. There's not really meant to be a positive effect.

 

The only booing that I think is justified is when its an issue of effort.

 

Then why are you whining about this, when there was a problem with effort. The ball was a few feet away, and he didn't go get it. That didn't take much effort, but he didn't even offer that.

[UMFan83]

I just don't understand the positive effect of booing in many situations.

 

It's voicing frustration. There's not really meant to be a positive effect.

 

So whats the point then? It makes you feel better inside? I'm not saying everyone should be "that's ok do better tomorrow!", but booing as constantly as our fans do does nothing to help the team do better at all. If you want to voice frustration, don't show up at the game. That is a billion times more likely to do something to better the team.

 

The only booing that I think is justified is when its an issue of effort.

 

Then why are you whining about this, when there was a problem with effort. The ball was a few feet away, and he didn't go get it. That didn't take much effort, but he didn't even offer that.

 

As I said below, theres a difference between a 10 year vet doing that and a 20 year old rookie who has played 4 games above AA ball in his career and is probably full of nerves. That's my opinion. As I said, if you feel you must boo then whatever I'm not going to stop you, I just think it's dumb.

[J.R.]

Cubs fans used to chuck rotten fruit from the bleachers. Maybe that was easier on the players' feelings.