Bulls Offseason Thread

[UMFan83]

That McGrady quote is exactly what you'd want him to say.

 

Why would I want a washed up, injured veteran who doesn't have starter ability anymore thinking that he should be a starter for a team that has two players slotted ahead of him? How does believing a lie help the team? I'm all for TMac knowing his role and coming to the Bulls. Unfortunately he doesn't know his role.

 

Dan Bernstein made a good point today. Name one wing player who has had microfracture surgery surgery or major knee surgery who ever came to close to being his old self? McGrady has to know his role or at least keep it to himself.

 

I'm trying to think of the players who have had it.

 

-Chris Webber had it and was never the same. Lost a ton of his agility, but was able to reinvent himself as a useful player the rest of his career.

-Jamal Mashburn had it and was never able to get back on an NBA court and had to retire.

-Allan Houston had it twice, once on one knee in 98 an another time in 2003. He definitely had a pretty good run after the first surgery. Can't remember how explosive he was but he set career highs in PPG and RPG after the first surgery.

-Kenyon Martin had it in 04-05, he was able to be very useful as a starter on good Nuggets teams, but he's not the same player he was pre-surgery. However he is better off than most guys who have the surgery.

 

Of course Amare and Jason Kidd both had it and lived to tell about it, but obviously they aren't wing players. It's a really mixed bag, but like Bernstein pointed out, none of them were the same player they were presurgery. And then you add in his ongoing back issues, and it boggles my mind that TMac can sit here and say he wants to be a starter. He has to earn that right at this point because no team is willing to consider TMac reliable enough to give a starting slot to.

 

(I realize he didn't demand to be a starter or anything, and said he was ok with a bench role if he was how he was in NYK, but the fact that he said that his aim is to be a starter bothered me quite a bit. It's one thing to think it and it's another to publically state it when the Bulls reportedly were looking to see how willing he is to adapt to a role and not be a distraction.)

[Wilson A2000]

(I realize he didn't demand to be a starter or anything, and said he was ok with a bench role if he was how he was in NYK, but the fact that he said that his aim is to be a starter bothered me quite a bit.

 

But the kicker is that he doesn't believe he is the same player he was in NY. McGrady has to ask himself why a guy who is only 31 (which is not too old) and used to be an elite player can't find a spot on any NBA bench, even at a fairly cheap price. He doesn't realize what he has left. He can't find it in himself to admit that he is not a starter anymore. He just doesn't see it and can't evaluate himself properly.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why shouldn't his ultimate goal to be a starter again?

 

Jeez, you two are a couple of crybabies.

[Keener98]

Why shouldn't his ultimate goal to be a starter again?

 

Jeez, you two are a couple of crybabies.

 

No [expletive]. Every damn player in the NBA, MLB, NFL, etc.. think they should be starters. TMac said he had to prove it, you guys are really really picking on stuff that isnt there. TMac has said all the right things so far, but people are trying to twist it to make him sound selfish etc....Its pretty damn ridiculous. Thibs has coached TMac before, and if he feels that TMac can help this team, Im going to believe him.

[Guest]

If only he had set his goal to be the 12th man on the roster.

 

Damn the man for having goals.

[Guest]

"I'd fit in well. I bring what I know about the game and my athleticism and versatility. Knowing my smarts for the game, leadership, anything I can add to get these guys over the edge. Without me, without (Carlos) Boozer, they're a .500 club. With the guys we added, we'll be 30 better."

30 what better? 30 wins? He ceratinly can't believe that. Or maybe he just sucks at math and doesn't realize that would put them at 71 wins. Or maybe he thinks he would bring them up to a .530 winning %.

 

Or maybe he has no idea what he is talking about. That makes perfect sense.

 

"I'd fit in well. I bring what I know about the game and my athleticism and versatility. Knowing my smarts for the game, leadership, anything I can add to get these guys over the edge. Without me, without (Carlos) Boozer, they're a .500 club. With the guys we added, we'll be 30 better."

30 what better? 30 wins? He ceratinly can't believe that. Or maybe he just sucks at math and doesn't realize that would put them at 71 wins. Or maybe he thinks he would bring them up to a .530 winning %.

I believe he means 30 better than .500, or 56-26.

 

Tracy McGrady makes more sense than you have the last two pages.

[Guest]

That McGrady quote is exactly what you'd want him to say.

 

Why would I want a washed up, injured veteran who doesn't have starter ability anymore thinking that he should be a starter for a team that has two players slotted ahead of him? How does believing a lie help the team? I'm all for TMac knowing his role and coming to the Bulls. Unfortunately he doesn't know his role.

 

Dan Bernstein made a good point today. Name one wing player who has had microfracture surgery surgery or major knee surgery who ever came to close to being his old self? McGrady has to know his role or at least keep it to himself.

 

He didn't say that. The quote was already posted on this page. I'm not sure how you can gather that he's saying that he should be a starter.

 

"But I have worked extremely hard and I'm far from that player. It's up to me in training camp to prove I'm a starter."

 

I am inferring, but it is a fair inference. By "prove" mean means he has to prove it to the team. In his mind, McGrady has already proven it to himself.

 

1. McGrady said that if he was the type of player he was in New York, he shouldn't be a starter.

2. McGrady clearly thinks he is better than the type of player he was in New York.

3. Therefore McGrady thinks he should be a starter.

 

He clearly said that since he is not the type of player he was in New York he would have a problem coming off the bench. He was just on the news and said that "the Bulls are a .500 team without me and Boozer." No, they are a .500 team without Boozer. They are a .500 team with you and without Boozer.

 

It's not a fair inference. You're reading into things that aren't there.

[Magnetic Curses]

dr logic and his logical breakdown of logic

[Magnetic Curses]

anyways, word is the bulls weren't impressed with his workout.

[UMFan83]

Why shouldn't his ultimate goal to be a starter again?

 

Jeez, you two are a couple of crybabies.

 

I think I made it pretty clear that it's ok for him to want to be a starter. I just said it wasn't smart of him to publically state that his aim is to be a starter when the team you are trying to sign with has already reportedly had concerns about him accepting a role player type position with the team. Unless the quotes were taken out of context, I guarantee you that his quotes were not received well in the Bulls org. And that's what I was saying.

 

Jeez you jump to conclusions without even reading other posts.

[hawkeyecub]

I think there's a lot more downside than upside to this move for the Bulls. There's a reason he's having to go all out to sell himself and teams still don't want him.

[UMFan83]

Despite an on-court audition for team officials Monday that one source said raised no significant concerns about his physical condition, McGrady apparently has not convinced the Bulls that he is willing to embrace a secondary role, which is one of two key prerequisites the two-time scoring champ must satisfy to secure a deal from Chicago.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/n ... id=5412508

 

Shocker. I guess I wasn't being a crybaby afterall.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why shouldn't his ultimate goal to be a starter again?

 

Jeez, you two are a couple of crybabies.

 

I think I made it pretty clear that it's ok for him to want to be a starter. I just said it wasn't smart of him to publically state that his aim is to be a starter when the team you are trying to sign with has already reportedly had concerns about him accepting a role player type position with the team. Unless the quotes were taken out of context, I guarantee you that his quotes were not received well in the Bulls org. And that's what I was saying.

 

Jeez you jump to conclusions without even reading other posts.

 

That's still a ridiculous conclusion, and yes, you're a crybaby, as anyone who's read even just two posts by you about any of the teams you cry over. Any player's goal should be to be a starter. It's asinine to expect someone to say otherwise. In what universe do you dwell where you expect players to come out and say "yeah, I really think my ceiling is being a bench player." Did you get wood when Corey Patterson said he thought he'd make a great #6 hitter?

[UMFan83]

Why shouldn't his ultimate goal to be a starter again?

 

Jeez, you two are a couple of crybabies.

 

I think I made it pretty clear that it's ok for him to want to be a starter. I just said it wasn't smart of him to publically state that his aim is to be a starter when the team you are trying to sign with has already reportedly had concerns about him accepting a role player type position with the team. Unless the quotes were taken out of context, I guarantee you that his quotes were not received well in the Bulls org. And that's what I was saying.

 

Jeez you jump to conclusions without even reading other posts.

 

That's still a ridiculous conclusion, and yes, you're a crybaby, as anyone who's read even just two posts by you about any of the teams you cry over. Any player's goal should be to be a starter. It's asinine to expect someone to say otherwise. In what universe do you dwell where you expect players to come out and say "yeah, I really think my ceiling is being a bench player." Did you get wood when Corey Patterson said he thought he'd make a great #6 hitter?

 

He doesn't have to say anything if he wants a job with the Bulls.

 

You are a gigantic doucebag and are part of the reason why half the people that used to post on this forum no longer do.

[Sammy Sofa]

Here's hoping there's gonna be another one real soon.

[SpongeWorthy]

Dozens of guys, especially veterans, change teams every year expecting that their ceiling is as a bench guy on their new team.

 

I mean if ANY player should expect their ceiling to be a starter then why stop there? Why shouldn't ANY player state that their ceiling is to be the best player in the league?

[Wilson A2000]

McGrady coming to the Bulls and insisting on a starting role outweighs anything good he has left skills wise. And he doesn't have much left we now realize. The Bulls have Korver - a slow moving 2 who can't create, can't play D, but can still shoot. McGrady won't allow himself to be the third option.

[Wilson A2000]

I just don't understand those who have no problem with any player publicly declaring that they want to start. How does Asik or Gibson mentioning this help the team?

[17 Seconds]

"If I was the player I was in a Knicks uniform, I would have no problem coming off the bench," he said. "But I have worked extremely hard and I'm far from that player. It's up to me in training camp to prove I'm a starter."

 

do not want

 

Im not really for getting TMac, but Im not sure what he said in that quote that is making people say the don't want him etc... He says he has to come to camp and prove hes a starter, what is wrong with that? Hes not saying he should be given a starting job at all, hes openly saying he has to work for it. I see nothing wrong with his comments.

 

Because T-Mac is NOT a starter, and he needs to accept that. The issue all along was whether or not he'd accept a bench role and not be a whiner about it. Well these quotes basically confirm the fears that T-Mac still is going to push hard for a starting job even though he's not worthy of it.

 

Remember when he QUIT on Houston? I want no part of this guy. I didn't even want him before, and that's when I assumed he understood that he'd be a minor piece of the team. Now I see where his mind is, and I want no part of it.

 

A big thing that I think this team will have going for them next season is chemistry. Don't risk screwing that up to sign a player who sucks anyways.

[17 Seconds]

"If I was the player I was in a Knicks uniform, I would have no problem coming off the bench," he said. "But I have worked extremely hard and I'm far from that player. It's up to me in training camp to prove I'm a starter."

 

do not want

 

Im not really for getting TMac, but Im not sure what he said in that quote that is making people say the don't want him etc... He says he has to come to camp and prove hes a starter, what is wrong with that? Hes not saying he should be given a starting job at all, hes openly saying he has to work for it. I see nothing wrong with his comments.

 

Because T-Mac is NOT a starter, and he needs to accept that. The issue all along was whether or not he'd accept a bench role and not be a whiner about it. Well these quotes basically confirm the fears that T-Mac still is going to push hard for a starting job even though he's not worthy of it.

 

Remember when he QUIT on Houston? I want no part of this guy. I didn't even want him before, and that's when I assumed he understood that he'd be a minor piece of the team. Now I see where his mind is, and I want no part of it.

 

A big thing that I think this team will have going for them next season is chemistry. Don't risk screwing that up to sign a player who sucks anyways.

[17 Seconds]

Ok guys (who are fine with T-Mac wanting to be a starter), just know that you can't say a WORD when January rolls around and we get a bunch of Larry Hughes type quotes from T-Mac whining about playing time.

 

I can just see it now. We sign McGrady, he indeed sucks, but he keeps getting playing time because he's T-MAC.

 

I feel like people are completely forgetting that McGrady straight up quit on the Rockets LESS THAN A YEAR AGO. He's supposed to be a changed man, even though he clearly still think he should be a starter? Ok.

 

 

What's funny is that we're debating all this about a player who isn't good anyways. We're talking about a guy who hasn't shot over 43% since 2002-2003.

Edited July 27, 2010 by 17 Seconds

[Flames24Rulz]

Ok guys (who are fine with T-Mac wanting to be a starter), just know that you can't say a WORD when January rolls around and we get a bunch of Larry Hughes type quotes from T-Mac whining about playing time.

 

I can just see it now. We sign McGrady, he indeed sucks, but he keeps getting playing time because he's T-MAC.

 

That's exactly why you just sign him to a one year deal and then cut ties with him if he gets out of line.

[17 Seconds]

Ok guys (who are fine with T-Mac wanting to be a starter), just know that you can't say a WORD when January rolls around and we get a bunch of Larry Hughes type quotes from T-Mac whining about playing time.

 

I can just see it now. We sign McGrady, he indeed sucks, but he keeps getting playing time because he's T-MAC.

 

That's exactly why you just sign him to a one year deal and then cut ties with him if he gets out of line.

 

I don't trust that that will happen.

 

I'd rather just avoid the issue all together and let the guys we have continue to gel. I don't really see what McGrady brings to the table at this point.

 

Sign Eddie House. He actually fits a need.

[hawkeyecub]

He's never played defense and now he doesn't have the explosiveness that was a big part of his game. The first step is gone. He's also extremely inefficient offensively and is likely to take too many shots.

 

Forget the name. At best he's basically what Larry Hughes is now. At worst he's a chucker who plays no defense but thinks he's much better than he actually is, does not accept his role and becomes a distraction and headache to a first-year coach and young core.

 

I don't see any reason for the risk. You have a team that's likely to win around 50 games. It's a young team that's made up of mostly good guys with a new coach who will try to instill a new defensive mindset and needs buy-in.

[17 Seconds]

Exactly. It seems like people have it in their minds that McGrady is a good shooter or something and that he can live by that even though his speed and explosiveness are completely gone. He can't.