Bulls Offseason Thread

[Tracer Bullet]

The point here is that LeBron isn't going to be the second banana or taking the back seat or whatever term you want to use. He's the best player in basketball, he controls the game by having the ball in his hands and scoring and distributing better than anyone else. Just because Wade is the incumbent doesn't mean that he's a bigger star, or that he's "the guy", or whatever. Just because Wade is better than Derrick Rose doesn't mean there's a different dynamic here.

 

And I really can't believe there are a host of people getting upset with him about playing with the best possible team. I mean, someone honestly said yes to "he should go to a good team, but not too good of a team". That's lunacy, I mean, I don't even know how to respond to that type of irrationality.

 

Why is it irrational to want to be on a great team but be the clear leader of that team? I'm not sure if he'll be seen, historically, as the leader of this Heat team or if Wade will. But I think if he had won several titles with the Knicks, Cavs, or Bulls, it'd clearly be LeBron's teams, like the 90s Bulls were Jordan's and the 80s Celitcs and Lakers were Bird's and Magic's. If LeBron wants that kind of legacy, I think going to Miami was a mistake.

 

I'm not surprised that people disagree with the "go to a good team, but not a team with an established top 5 player" thing. But you seem to be really bent out of shape about it.

[rawaction]

Jordan's Bulls created a playing field that was serverely tilted in their favor, but most attribute that to MJ's greatness and competitiveness getting the other 11 players on the Bulls to play to his level.

 

Man, most people are really stupid.

 

Yeah, you're proving that.

[Guest]

As an outsider I seriously cannot see how any fan of any team could be pissed at Lebron for doing what he did. It sucks for Cleveland but he made what he thought was the best decision for him. Who could really be upset with that?

 

I think it's just irrational fan talk. I think most people would do the same thing if they were him.

 

I guess the only thing that was stupid was the TV show, but if ESPN wants to pay me for doing something stupid where do I sign?

[SouthSideRyan]

Jordan's Bulls created a playing field that was serverely tilted in their favor, but most attribute that to MJ's greatness and competitiveness getting the other 11 players on the Bulls to play to his level.

 

Man, most people are really stupid.

 

Yeah, you're proving that.

 

Reason: Absuive >> This post contained abusive material

[rawaction]

Jordan's Bulls created a playing field that was serverely tilted in their favor, but most attribute that to MJ's greatness and competitiveness getting the other 11 players on the Bulls to play to his level.

 

Man, most people are really stupid.

 

Yeah, you're proving that.

 

Reason: Absuive >> This post contained abusive material

 

LOL. I'm sorry. I actually didn't mean it like that. I meant it sarcastically.

 

Edit: as in you weren't really making a point in this thread.

[Andy]

But if you're talking about legacy, and being percieved as the best player ever...he's put himself in a poor position for that.

 

Why? Because he had to go to another team to get his Pippen/Shaq?

Whatever anyone's opinion of Pippen, he was never a top-4 player in the entire league like Dwyane Wade is. At best, LBJ and Wade are 1A and 1B. And for that matter, Shaq is a poor comparison too, because he was The Man on those first 3 Lakers teams, not Kobe.

[rawaction]

As an outsider I seriously cannot see how any fan of any team could be pissed at Lebron for doing what he did. It sucks for Cleveland but he made what he thought was the best decision for him. Who could really be upset with that?

 

I think it's just irrational fan talk. I think most people would do the same thing if they were him.

 

I guess the only thing that was stupid was the TV show, but if ESPN wants to pay me for doing something stupid where do I sign?

 

Not pissed at him for his decision. He just took the punk way out. He wanted championships, fame, and legacy (basically his own admission at one time or another). He potentially threw away 2 of them just for championships.

 

Had every right to choose what he did, not pissed about it at all. Just pointing out I think he is a punk for making that choice.

[Tracer Bullet]

Jordan's Bulls created a playing field that was serverely tilted in their favor, but most attribute that to MJ's greatness and competitiveness getting the other 11 players on the Bulls to play to his level.

 

Man, most people are really stupid.

 

Yeah, you're proving that.

 

Reason: Absuive >> This post contained abusive material

 

Reason: trolling

[Andy]

I think the crux of the issue is what Flames said about LeBron being "King James" and "The Chosen One" and the center of an ad campaign informing us all that we were "witnesses". All this time James had everyone believing that he believed he was truly special, someone who would stake his claim as the best player since Shaq's prime ended. He either had to know or was completely ignorant of the fact that going to Miami would crush any chance of that happening, and either way it was disappointing for people who want our athletes to be committed to greatness and squeezing every ounce out of their potential.

[CubColtPacer]

But if you're talking about legacy, and being percieved as the best player ever...he's put himself in a poor position for that.

 

Why? Because he had to go to another team to get his Pippen/Shaq?

Whatever anyone's opinion of Pippen, he was never a top-4 player in the entire league like Dwyane Wade is. At best, LBJ and Wade are 1A and 1B. And for that matter, Shaq is a poor comparison too, because he was The Man on those first 3 Lakers teams, not Kobe.

 

Pippen was one of about 10 active players named to the top 50 players in NBA history. He was seen very highly during his playing days.

[Andy]

But if you're talking about legacy, and being percieved as the best player ever...he's put himself in a poor position for that.

 

Why? Because he had to go to another team to get his Pippen/Shaq?

Whatever anyone's opinion of Pippen, he was never a top-4 player in the entire league like Dwyane Wade is. At best, LBJ and Wade are 1A and 1B. And for that matter, Shaq is a poor comparison too, because he was The Man on those first 3 Lakers teams, not Kobe.

 

Pippen was one of about 10 active players named to the top 50 players in NBA history. He was seen very highly during his playing days.

I suppose I should correct myself by saying that Pippen was probably looked at as a top 4 player for the 93-94 season, when he could've been MVP but for a ridiculous season by Olajuwon.

[SouthSideRyan]

Jordan's Bulls created a playing field that was serverely tilted in their favor, but most attribute that to MJ's greatness and competitiveness getting the other 11 players on the Bulls to play to his level.

 

Man, most people are really stupid.

 

Yeah, you're proving that.

 

Reason: Absuive >> This post contained abusive material

 

Reason: trolling

 

That's not one of the options.

[SouthSideRyan]

Jordan's Bulls created a playing field that was serverely tilted in their favor, but most attribute that to MJ's greatness and competitiveness getting the other 11 players on the Bulls to play to his level.

 

Man, most people are really stupid.

 

Yeah, you're proving that.

 

Reason: Absuive >> This post contained abusive material

 

Reason: trolling

 

And honestly, how else should one respond to the thought that Scottie Pippen was only good because St. Michael made it so?

[Tracer Bullet]

it's not just that post, it's every post you've made in the last 100 or so pages of this thread.

[C.C.]

I think the crux of the issue is what Flames said about LeBron being "King James" and "The Chosen One" and the center of an ad campaign informing us all that we were "witnesses". All this time James had everyone believing that he believed he was truly special, someone who would stake his claim as the best player since Shaq's prime ended. He either had to know or was completely ignorant of the fact that going to Miami would crush any chance of that happening, and either way it was disappointing for people who want our athletes to be committed to greatness and squeezing every ounce out of their potential.

 

+1

 

You want to see the greats compete against each other, not join forces.

[wolf stansson]

There's a fine line between antagonizing people who are wrong in a snarky manner and trolling.

[rawaction]

 

And honestly, how else should one respond to the thought that Scottie Pippen was only good because St. Michael made it so?

 

By not reading into things that weren't stated? I never said Pippen wasn't good. But would he have been an elite player without Jordan on his team?

[SouthSideRyan]

 

And honestly, how else should one respond to the thought that Scottie Pippen was only good because St. Michael made it so?

 

By not reading into things that weren't stated? I never said Pippen wasn't good. But would he have been an elite player without Jordan on his team?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html

[wolf stansson]

But would he have been an elite player without Jordan on his team?

Yes. He'd be in the 5-10 best players in the league blob.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

 

And honestly, how else should one respond to the thought that Scottie Pippen was only good because St. Michael made it so?

 

By not reading into things that weren't stated? I never said Pippen wasn't good. But would he have been an elite player without Jordan on his team?

Yes.

[SouthSideRyan]

But if you're talking about legacy, and being percieved as the best player ever...he's put himself in a poor position for that.

 

Why? Because he had to go to another team to get his Pippen/Shaq?

Whatever anyone's opinion of Pippen, he was never a top-4 player in the entire league like Dwyane Wade is. At best, LBJ and Wade are 1A and 1B. And for that matter, Shaq is a poor comparison too, because he was The Man on those first 3 Lakers teams, not Kobe.

 

Pippen was one of about 10 active players named to the top 50 players in NBA history. He was seen very highly during his playing days.

 

I'd say he could definitely make a case for top 5 for some part of the dynasty. The Dream Team had 12 players, he was clearly better than Laettner (HA!), Bird '92, Magic '92, Robinson and Chris Mullin. I'd probably put Jordan, Malone, Ewing, and Barkley ahead of him, leaving him in a group with Stockton and an aging Drexler.

 

ETA: Well that'd be 6, but still.

[Tracer Bullet]

There's a fine line between antagonizing people who are wrong in a snarky manner and trolling.

 

yes and a poster can hop back and forth across the line in the same thread

[wolf stansson]

There's a fine line between antagonizing people who are wrong in a snarky manner and trolling.

 

yes and a poster can hop back and forth across the line in the same thread

And sometimes it's more like a failed DUI field test.

[SpongeWorthy]

In David Halberstam's MJ book (which is a great if not sycophantic read) he talks about how all the guys on the Dream Team coaching staff thought that Pippen was clearly the 2nd best player on the team.

[Mark Priors Calves]

 

And honestly, how else should one respond to the thought that Scottie Pippen was only good because St. Michael made it so?

 

By not reading into things that weren't stated? I never said Pippen wasn't good. But would he have been an elite player without Jordan on his team?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html

 

Jo Jo English!