Z to the pen

[RedFlash]

Am I the only one who isn't bothered by this development? Do I agree with the move? No. Besides batting Lenny Harris leadoff is a FAR worse move then moving Zambrano to the pen. I seriously doubt this experimentation will last more then a week.

[Elwood]

Unbelievable.

 

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ue1xg6.jpg

[Outshined_One]

So, what happens when Zambrano comes into the 8th inning, walks 4 straight batters, loses his mechanics, overthrows all of his pitches, and throws a fit? Does that mean Ted Lilly's next to move into the bullpen?

[davell]

The only remotely positive thing I can take from this is the following: I can totally see Z coming into a game with one out and the bases loaded after Grabow has done his typical relief work and Z losing it and beating the hell out of Grabow for leaving him inherited runners.

[loukycub]

Am I the only one who isn't bothered by this development? Do I agree with the move? No. Besides batting Lenny Harris leadoff is a FAR worse move then moving Zambrano to the pen. I seriously doubt this experimentation will last more then a week.

 

raises hand

 

neither gorz or silva have demonstrated that they need to be removed from the rotation. the main problem has been a lack of offense most nights and the bullpen the others. someone had to go down when lilly came back. dempster quite obviously wasn't. gorz probably wasn't because he's a lefty. your choices are then wells, zambrano, or silva. of those three, which has been less than spectacular this season so far? i say zambrano.

 

i am also thinking that this move is also a precursor to a trade involving either wells or gorzellany (or if jim can find a sucker willing to take on a lot of the contract) or silva plus a prospect for a bullpen arm. i don't think this will last very long and it is the best move to make out of a bad situation.

 

i'm not going to be on the fire the managers (field and general) now bandwagon until that imminent roster move on friday to put lilly on the active roster. i'm getting on if jeff samardzjia is also on the 25 man as well.

[Jon]

I think everyone is forgetting that Piniella will probably change his mind in less than a week and a half just to somehow spin this into a "it was never intended to be a long term thing and as you saw in yesterday's start, it did him a lot of good" move.

 

Or Zambrano will pull a Costanza and take the mound during his next previously scheduled start just to see if he'll notice.

[Gmoney08]

Im not in love with the Phillies bullpen.. Im wondering if they plan on moving Roy Halladay back there?

[Gmoney08]

Wouldnt Silva or even Cashner have made alot more sense in the 8th? I mean who thinks Silva is going to keep this up the whole year starting, who knows though he has some good stuff he may be a good 8th inning guy. Cashner has been downright nasty in the minors this year and I could easily see him doing well in a major league bullpen.

[erik316wttn]

Any truth to the rumor that Marmol is going to replace Soto as catcher?

[Gmoney08]

Any truth to the rumor that Marmol is going to replace Soto as catcher?

 

Yes, Soto is now the Ace of the starting rotation.

[Outshined_One]

Any truth to the rumor that Marmol is going to replace Soto as catcher?

 

No, he's taking over for Hill as backup catcher. The new everyday catcher is going to be Randy Wells.

[Rusch33]

How about what's going to happen when Gorz and Silva start pitching like themselves especially if it's a period of time when they do that?

 

Going to have to stretch Zambrano back out somehow, and he has no options left. Incredibly terrible move that going to be a disaster if anyone gets hurt or Silva/Gorz start pitching themselves again.

[Banedon]

Lou's given up already. I think he's trying to get fired. I don't think he wanted to manage this year, but wanted the paycheck. And when things started off bad, he thought "well lets get this [expletive] over with".

[Hairyducked Idiot]

hahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

"Fun bad" portion of the season, you have begun. Let's do this. Tailspin ho!

[Tryptamine]

Great, because constantly having to hear about 100 years and goats and Bartman wasn't enough. Now I have to listen to the random jerkoff spout off about this and I can't even tell him he's wrong.

[UMFan83]

Am I the only one who isn't bothered by this development? Do I agree with the move? No. Besides batting Lenny Harris leadoff is a FAR worse move then moving Zambrano to the pen. I seriously doubt this experimentation will last more then a week.

 

Batting Lenny Harris leadoff is not far worse. As has been proven many times, batting order means little statistically. If you are arguing playing Lenny Harris at all was worse than this, we can certainly have that discussion.

[UMFan83]

someone had to go down when lilly came back. dempster quite obviously wasn't. gorz probably wasn't because he's a lefty. your choices are then wells, zambrano, or silva. of those three, which has been less than spectacular this season so far? i say zambrano.

 

 

So you wish to base the decision on 4 starts rather than 7 years of data suggesting he's the worst option to be moved to the pen. I know you went on to talk about how the move is temporary, but honestly any decision to move your most talented starter to the pen is a bad discussion.

[Cubbie Swagger]

What's the thought process here? I mean... sure, Carlos' WHIP has been way too high, but since opening day, he hasn't been THAT awful. He hasn't been great, but not "bullpen demotion" bad. I realize that our bullpen is horrible and we have an urgent need for help in that area (which I've been saying since about... the end of the 2008 season) but I don't see how Zambrano should be moved to the pen. Honestly, he would probably make a decent setup man, but it's just such a waste. The guy hasn't had an ERA over 4 in his entire career... why give up after a few starts? It's so funny how everyone (including myself) was so worried about how we were going to put a decent rotation together, and now we just take our ace and stick him in the bullpen.

 

Baseball must be so boring for fans of other teams.

[loukycub]

So you wish to base the decision on 4 starts rather than 7 years of data suggesting he's the worst option to be moved to the pen. I know you went on to talk about how the move is temporary, but honestly any decision to move your most talented starter to the pen is a bad discussion.

 

i know it sounds a immature and illogical, but when it comes to a short term decision like this, i would rather go with the short term data. i am in no way advocating this as a long term move. if that was the case i would go with silva to the pen (only because we have 3 lhp already). plus if your most talented starter is playing like crap, i don't think it automatically gives him a free pass to stay in the rotation either. (for the record, i don't think zambrano has been crap this season, just one start. but so far silva has out performed zambrano this season and i think everyone can agree with that.)

 

this may be a bad decision based on 7 years of data, but i would rather go with the hot hands right now. if someone plays themself out of a rotation spot i'm perfectly fine with putting z in their slot. i see this as a numbers game. someone had to get pulled to make room for lilly and zambrano's performance so far i don't think justifies him starting compared to the other 4 this season.

[Rob]

So you wish to base the decision on 4 starts rather than 7 years of data suggesting he's the worst option to be moved to the pen. I know you went on to talk about how the move is temporary, but honestly any decision to move your most talented starter to the pen is a bad discussion.

 

i know it sounds a immature and illogical, but when it comes to a short term decision like this, i would rather go with the short term data. i am in no way advocating this as a long term move. if that was the case i would go with silva to the pen (only because we have 3 lhp already). plus if your most talented starter is playing like crap, i don't think it automatically gives him a free pass to stay in the rotation either. (for the record, i don't think zambrano has been crap this season, just one start. but so far silva has out performed zambrano this season and i think everyone can agree with that.)

 

this may be a bad decision based on 7 years of data, but i would rather go with the hot hands right now. if someone plays themself out of a rotation spot i'm perfectly fine with putting z in their slot. i see this as a numbers game. someone had to get pulled to make room for lilly and zambrano's performance so far i don't think justifies him starting compared to the other 4 this season.

 

Before today, Z had an xFIP of 3.37 and Silva was 3.38.

 

Silva hasn't out-performed Z. He's been luckier.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm pretty sure they're doing this because Lou was pouting about the bullpen, so this is their way of solving the pen "issue" It has nothing to do with demoting Z

[treebird]

So, what happens when Zambrano comes into the 8th inning, walks 4 straight batters, loses his mechanics, overthrows all of his pitches, and throws a fit? Does that mean Ted Lilly's next to move into the bullpen?

 

im very afraid that what happens after that occurs is going to be even worse than this. how are they going to sell "he sucked in the bullpen, time to go back to the rotation" after this whole thing is (in the minds of many) predicated on zambrano's lack of success in the rotation?

[rocket]

So, what happens when Zambrano comes into the 8th inning, walks 4 straight batters, loses his mechanics, overthrows all of his pitches, and throws a fit? Does that mean Ted Lilly's next to move into the bullpen?

 

im very afraid that what happens after that occurs is going to be even worse than this. how are they going to sell "he sucked in the bullpen, time to go back to the rotation" after this whole thing is (in the minds of many) predicated on zambrano's lack of success in the rotation?

 

exactly. and if z somehow dominates in a relief role, is lou going to send him back to the rotation, or think to himself "by golly i'm a genius, i should have moved z to the bullpen a lot sooner" and keep z in the bullpen all season?

 

so basically, i'm saying either scenario it appears z may be a reliever all year.

[RedFlash]

someone had to go down when lilly came back. dempster quite obviously wasn't. gorz probably wasn't because he's a lefty. your choices are then wells, zambrano, or silva. of those three, which has been less than spectacular this season so far? i say zambrano.

 

 

So you wish to base the decision on 4 starts rather than 7 years of data suggesting he's the worst option to be moved to the pen. I know you went on to talk about how the move is temporary, but honestly any decision to move your most talented starter to the pen is a bad discussion.

 

But allowing Harris anywhere NEAR the lineup, regardless of spot, imo is a far worse move. In fact, I can count at least 10 moves the Cubs have made (and this is sad that I can do it) that are worse then Z going to the pen.

[Cubbie Swagger]

I think I would have been less outraged if Lou had moved Z to second base.