Re: Harden close to signing with Rangers

[17 Seconds]

and we couldnt have at least offered the guy arbitration.

 

 

He would have taken it and made more through that than what he's making at 7.5.......All this says to me is we are truly hamstrung financially this offseason and we prioritized an OFer more than we did a SP......Personally, I'd have kept Harden and made a concession in RF with a Hermida type guy, if we absolutely HAD to get rid of Bradley......

 

hendry also prioritized league average relief pithcing

 

seriously, the cubs will pay 4.75 million next year to grabow and miles, and we can't afford 7.5 to harden

[davell]

and we couldnt have at least offered the guy arbitration.

 

 

He would have taken it and made more through that than what he's making at 7.5.......All this says to me is we are truly hamstrung financially this offseason and we prioritized an OFer more than we did a SP......Personally, I'd have kept Harden and made a concession in RF with a Hermida type guy, if we absolutely HAD to get rid of Bradley......

 

hendry also prioritized league average relief pithcing

 

 

Very true. That 3.5 this season could have been helpful in keeping Harden, especially after dumping Heilman and Miles. Forgot about that one already.

[UMFan83]

Good luck Harden, thanks for not signing with the Cardinals or Brewers.

[17 Seconds]

Good luck Harden, thanks for not signing with the Cardinals or Brewers.

 

i kind of wish he did

[cubsfan26]

not offering harden arbitration was a horrible baseball move, and even if you want to blame it on the money situation, it's still hendry's fault. he's the one that has put this team in this position with his bad contracts.

 

When deciding if something is a horrible move you have to factor in the teams money situation. If you don't realize that then you are clueless. Yes it's Hendry fault that the Cubs are in the postion they are in. He gets blame for the shape of the payroll and he's done a bad job with the last few years. But allowing Harden to accept arb, and using all of his free money so they couldn't add anybody else would be a bad move, not doing it is a good move. Get it? So say this sucks we couldn't do it because what Hendry did to our payroll. Not that the move itself in our situation is a bad move. I know people get hard ones here for bashing Hendry, but there's no doubt that this board goes WAY overboard with it. Plus it's VERY debateable if a pitcher like Harden is worth 7.5-10m in the first place. When you consider what you need to have him around him to make up for his lack of innings and all the starts he needs to miss.

 

but hey, he swung that aramis trade back in 03 and got derosa and stuff

 

Nope thats not the reason,making the playoffs 3 of 7 years is the reason. Gm's may get judged by fans on the moves they make. But when it really comes down to if a GM is doing his job or not is winning or losing. Hendry teams overall have done a decent job at that. Sure with the money he's spent they probably should have done a little better. But thats why Hendry is probably on the hot seat this season needs to make small smart moves to make up for his poor ones. Look I'm not gonna sit here and defend Hendry when he doesn't deserve it. Last season he deserved a benefit of the doubt and now he doesn't. I'm giving him this season to turn things around and if he doesn't I want him gone as well.

Edited December 9, 2009 by cubsfan26

[SouthSideRyan]

John Grabow has NEVER pitched 150 innings in a season.

[jersey cubs fan]

Nope thats not the reason,making the playoffs 3 of 7 years is the reason. Gm's may get judged by fans on the moves they make. But when it really comes down to if a GM is doing his job or not is winning or losing. Hendry teams overall have done a decent job at that.

 

No they have not. They are barely above .500 and are basically even with the lowly Florida Marlins during his time here. They qualified for the playoffs 3 times, but 2 of those were because of weak competition. He only built one actual really good team, and he destroyed that one.

[Shilzzz]

Fly balls are going to kill Harden in Texas. Safeco on the other hand...

[17 Seconds]

not offering harden arbitration was a horrible baseball move, and even if you want to blame it on the money situation, it's still hendry's fault. he's the one that has put this team in this position with his bad contracts.

 

When deciding if something is a horrible move you have to factor in the teams money situation. If you don't realize that then you are clueless. Yes it's Hendry fault that the Cubs are in the postion they are in. He gets blame for the shape of the payroll and he's done a bad job with the last few years. But allowing Harden to accept arb, and using all of his free money so they couldn't add anybody else would be a bad move, not doing it is a good move. Get it? So say this sucks we couldn't do it because what Hendry did to our payroll. Not that the move itself in our situation is a bad move. I know people get hard ones here for bashing Hendry, but there's no doubt that this board goes WAY overboard with it.

 

sorry, but i find it hard to cut hendry slack on being on a tight budget when he gives stiffs like john grabow 2 years and 7.5 [expletive] million.

 

Nope thats not the reason,making the playoffs 3 of 7 years is the reason.

 

there's the ultimate copout excuse. hendry has a massive payroll, has gotten the benefit of playing in what is often a crap division, and i'm supposed to be congratulating him on building a team that got to the playoffs 3 out of 7 times?

 

not to mention, the 2007 team only made the playoffs because of the crap division. 85 wins in a division where the rest of the teams were a combined 62 games under .500? WAY TO GO JIM

 

with the resources hendry is given and the division we play in, the expectations should be a lot higher than "we made the playoffs 3 times in 7 years".

[cubsfan26]

John Grabow has NEVER pitched 150 innings in a season.

 

When did Grabow get 7.5m for one season? Over two years he will come close to that actually though.

 

No they have not. They are barely above .500

 

Yes they are, GM's get fired because teams do good or bad. Not because of bad free agent signings or trades that people disagree with. Usually those bad signings and trades lead to a team losing though. Also from 03-09 the Cubs are 587 and 548, so thats a little better the barely 500. Like it or not but that record with three playoff appearances don't get GM's fired.

 

They qualified for the playoffs 3 times, but 2 of those were because of weak competition.

 

Bunch of excues, because if made in 2007 due to weak competition, then I can say they didn't make it in 04 due to tough competition. Plus I assume your trying to say that a team that was five outs away from going to the World Series wasn't a playoff worthly team?

 

He only built one actual really good team, and he destroyed that one

 

The 03 team that was in the playoffs was pretty darn good, so was 04 and 08 IMO.

[inari]

I don't think there is anything that Hendry could do to draw criticism from CF26.

[jersey cubs fan]

Also from 03-09 the Cubs are 587 and 548, so thats a little better the barely 500. Like it or not but that record with three playoff appearances don't get GM's fired.

 

The 03 team that was in the playoffs was pretty darn good, so was 04 and 08 IMO.

 

 

It doesn't matter what your opinion is, you are wrong. 08 was their only really good team. They didn't even win 90 in those other seasons.

 

Oh, and that record is the equivalent of an 83 win season, which isn't good, and is barely over .500.

[17 Seconds]

They qualified for the playoffs 3 times, but 2 of those were because of weak competition.

 

Bunch of excues, because if made in 2007 due to weak competition, then I can say they didn't make it in 04 due to tough competition. Plus I assume your trying to say that a team that was five outs away from going to the World Series wasn't a playoff worthly team?

 

pretty funny to hear you talk about making excuses, considering your main argument for defending hendry is "well he made the playoffs a couple times".

 

remember last offseason when we were criticizing all the moves and you kept screaming at us to give them a chance and that you'd admit hendry did a bad job if those moves ended up being bad? well those moves ended up being bad, and all you did was continue to make excuses for all of his bad moves. then if you DO admit a move wasn't a good one, you're always quick to make sure you make an excuse for him.

 

gave aaron miles 2/5? "hey, that's what the going rate is for backup middle infielders"

 

gave up a good prospect for jevin gregg? "hey, he has closer experience"

 

gave a league average reliever 2/7.5? "who cares about the real stats, he has kept his era low for a couple years in a row, so it's no longer a fluke"

 

i understand that this board can have it out for hendry at times, but you're just as bad...worse actually... with your blind defense of him.

[Shilzzz]

I don't think there is anything that Hendry could do to draw criticism from CF26.

 

why would he criticize himself?

 

i swear between cf26 and cf11 one is hendry, the other kaplan. it's hard to tell who's who sometimes.

[SouthSideRyan]

When did Grabow get 7.5m for one season? Over two years he will come close to that actually though.

 

Without the upside of Harden and twice the downside!! Sign me up!

[cubsfan26]

sorry, but i find it hard to cut hendry slack on being on a tight budget when he gives stiffs like john grabow 2 years and 7.5 [expletive] million

 

Thats because you believe Grabow got lucky the last two years to get the RESULTS he did. Like it or not but the Cubs needed relief help more then starting pitching help. They pretty much had Guzman and Marmol, with Guzman being a major injury risk. Mixed with a bunch of guys who never pitch in a major league bullpen for a fullseason. If Hendry didn't sign Grabow and he pitched well somewhere else. Then the Cubs went with all there young pitchers and the bullpen stunk. Then people would be saying wow Hendry is a idiot to build the bullpen like that. It works both ways, but fans never mention what they wanted when that plan goes wrong.

 

there's the ultimate copout excuse. hendry has a massive payroll, has gotten the benefit of playing in what is often a crap division, and i'm supposed to be congratulating him on building a team that got to the playoffs 3 out of 7 times?

 

Remember Hendry had a massive payroll in 08-09, before that he had a higher payroll but it wasn't toward top in baseball and often was around the same as St Louis or Houston. Plus don't you realize that you are also making tons of excuses. By blaming the division for being bad, but overall during his reign it's actually been kinda tough. Yes in 06 it was bad, which had no benefit to the Cubs at all since they sucked. In 07 we did get lucky that the division was bad, but we also got unlucky in 04 when the division was pretty tough.

 

with the resources hendry is given and the division we play in, the expectations should be a lot higher than "we made the playoffs 3 times in 7 years".

 

Well the division stuff is an excuse, because the division has been just as good as other divisions overall. Yes he should have done at least a little more then make the playoffs in 3 times in 7 years. But GMs's who are almost 40 games above 500, and make the playoffs three times in seven years most of the team are seen as doing a sold job. Of course Hendry had to make a mess of the payroll to do all of this. So right now he's in a bad spot, but now he has to work himself out of it and if he can't then he will be gone.

[jersey cubs fan]

But GMs's who are almost 40 games above 500,

 

40 games over .500 is great in one season. It is not good over the course of 7 seasons. It is mediocre at best, and should be considered disappointing for a team that dominates in payroll. It's barely better than an 83 win season.

 

That is bad.

[17 Seconds]

Thats because you believe Grabow got lucky the last two years to get the RESULTS he did.

 

hey, it's not my fault that you're seemingly the only one on this board who doesn't understand how to properly look at stats. seriously, how many times do we have to explain to you that ERA for a reliever is a completely crap stat? it's stuff like this that makes it obvious you're going to blindly defend hendry no matter what. you just refuse to acknowledge it even though multiple people have explained to you in a million different ways why you're not understanding grabow's stats.

 

as for the "he had to do something about the pen" nonsense.... you don't overpay for average players just because you need to bolster an area of the team. you know what that's called" that's called a desperation move.

 

"hey out bullpen sucks. how do we fix it? by overpaying for mediocrity, of course."

 

Well the division stuff is an excuse, because the division has been just as good as other divisions overall.

 

the division has sucked in 3 of the last 4 seasons, and one of those crappy seasons directly resulted in a division title for the cubs... a division title you're trying to pump up hendry's resume with.

[17 Seconds]

But GMs's who are almost 40 games above 500,

 

40 games over .500 is great in one season. It is not good over the course of 7 seasons. It is mediocre at best, and should be considered disappointing for a team that dominates in payroll. It's barely better than an 83 win season.

 

That is bad.

 

on average that's a little worse than 84-78 each season.

 

when you consider the cubs have been among the leaders in payroll over that span, that's not an accomplishment

[cubsfan26]

I don't think there is anything that Hendry could do to draw criticism from CF26

 

Then you haven't been paying attention. I defend a few things he's done, and say overall he's done a decent job results wise during his reign. Then people freak out and act like those comments are insane. Even though if you look around baseball, you would realize that very few GM's have been fired with what Hendry has done W/L wise and how many times he made the postseason.

 

It doesn't matter what your opinion is, you are wrong. 08 was their only really good team. They didn't even win 90 in those other seasons

 

Think whatever you want I say your wrong. Yes the 03 might have only went 88-74, but the team at the end of the season with Lofton/Ramirez/Simon added to it was pretty darn good. There overall record just wasn't that great due to a 500 first half when they had injuries and no Lofton/Ramirez/Simon.

 

defending hendry is "well he made the playoffs a couple times".

 

Is a GM job getting his team to the postseason and giving them a chance to win the World Series? I don't care if every move Hendry made was good or if most of his signings were good. If his teams weren't good for the most part he would have been gone.

 

remember last offseason when we were criticizing all the moves and you kept screaming at us to give them a chance and that you'd admit hendry did a bad job if those moves ended up being bad? well those moves ended up being bad, and all you did was continue to make excuses for all of his bad moves. then if you DO admit a move wasn't a good one, you're always quick to make sure you make an excuse for him.

 

And I have said many times that Hendry had a VERY bad offseason last year. The only move to somewhat work out for him was resigning Dempster. Everything else was pretty much crap, and worst offseason Hendrys ever had.

 

i understand that this board can have it out for hendry at times, but you're just as bad...worse actually... with your blind defense of him.

 

There's no blind defense, I mention a few things I like or don't mind that he's done or that overall he's done a decent job as the GM results wise and people go nuts. Yes last night I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Because I watched people on this board in 07-08 bash just about every move he made, and ALOT of them worked out. So when everybody on here were going nuts I was just saying lets give these moves a shot and wait and see what happens. Because you guys were basically saying he's an awful GM before you knew how these moves went yet, after many of his moves worked out in 07-08. Thats all I was doing, and this offseason he gets no benefit of the doubt. I mentioned that I thought Hendy overpaid Grabow. But just because I want Grabow back and was ok with giving him a two year deal. That doesn't mean I'm blindly defending Hendry. Grabow pitched well the last two seasons and I like that he's a LH pitcher who can pitch to both RH and LH hitters. I think alot of people these days just look at numbers and stats and don't pay attention to human factors enough.

[17 Seconds]

Is a GM job getting his team to the postseason and giving them a chance to win the World Series? I don't care if every move Hendry made was good or if most of his signings were good. If his teams weren't good for the most part he would have been gone.

 

why am i not shocked that a person who uses ERA to determine how good a reliever is would also use playoff appearances to measure how good a gm has been?

[A-Cal]

jesus, what did harden ever really do for us?

 

i remember his first game in a cubs uniform...pretty [expletive] nasty

 

playoffs!? buehler??!?

 

let it go folks

[17 Seconds]

jesus, what did harden ever really do for us?

 

be good at baseball?

[davell]

For what its worth, I looked on Cots to see what the team payrolls of the Astros, Cards, and cubs have been since 2003, Jim's 1st full season in charge......

 

In Millions, starting in 2003 and going forward from there.......

 

Astros-71, 75, 76, 92, 87, 88, 102

 

Cards- 83, 83, 92, 88, 90, 99, 88

 

Cubs- 80, 90, 87, 94, 99, 118, 134

 

The Astros were outspent every single year since then by the Cubs, only twice being within 10 mill of them......

 

The Cards had only spent 5 mill less than the Cubs from 03-06 total, so that's a wash. Since 2007, the gap has widened and now as far as I'm concerned, our thinking SHOULD change. Making the playoffs once from 2003-2006 wasn't good, by any stretch, but it wasn't god-awful either. I still think that the 2004 team was the most talented we ever had, but we fell short then obviously in which would have given us a 50% success ratio over that period, which would have been fine.

 

With the way our payroll has grown recently though, I'm thinking we need to be a playoff team at least 3 of every 4 years. We need to use the Red Sox as a model from here on out, from top to bottom and hopefully this can become the case. Hell, if we make it in 2010, we'll have accomplished that over the last 4 years and we all know how frustrated we've been over that time.

 

Should Hendry go? My answer is an unequivocal "yes". But only if we miss the playoffs in 2010. I want him gone personally, but if he makes the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, it's kind of hard to get rid of him, if you ask me. Even with the payroll advantages that we have currently, if he makes it in 2010(and I have serious doubt, as I'm sure everyone does) he probably deserves to stick.

[davell]

Is a GM job getting his team to the postseason and giving them a chance to win the World Series? I don't care if every move Hendry made was good or if most of his signings were good. If his teams weren't good for the most part he would have been gone.

 

why am i not shocked that a person who uses ERA to determine how good a reliever is would also use playoff appearances to measure how good a gm has been?

 

Look at my post a few down from here......I'm of the same thinking as you on Hendry, for the most part, but do you agree with this assessment of his overall tenure?