Sandberg to coach Iowa Cubs in 2010

[NCCubFan]

I'd rather see Trammel as manager. I still remember that it was under his leadership as interim manager (during Lou's suspension) that the Cubs went on a tear and turned the season around in 2007.

[Sammy Sofa]

Would anyone here give Trammel a shot to manage with Sandberg as the bench coach? Im not saying I want Sandberg as either but a lot of people have drawn the conclusion he will be a part of the big league club sooner than later. I would much rather have Trammel at the helm than Sandberg.

 

I'd definitely prefer that option given the likely available scenarios.

[jaxxradio]

I'm on the fence with this one, but I will say this: Sandberg isn't interested in winning games as a minor league manager, he's interested in getting his players ready for the majors. Like it or not, bunting is part of the game (albeit a very small part, pardon the pun) and getting his players to consistently lay down a bunt is part of the process of becoming a more complete major league player.

 

It used to drive me nuts to see it when I was in West Tenn, but quickly realized that wins and losses in the minors mean nothing compared to getting players fundamentally ready for the majors.

[USSoccer]

Getting your cleanup hitters ready to lay bunts down in the early innings of a game has absolutely nothing to do with fundamentals or getting players ready for the majors.

 

I'm sure it has to do with his self righteous "play the game the right way" mentality, which is exactly why I want him nowhere near the managerial job at the big club.

[sneakypower]

Trammell let the players walk all over him during his tenure in Detroit

[jersey cubs fan]

Trammell let the players walk all over him during his tenure in Detroit

 

Which is kind of meaningless, since he didn't have many real players anyway, it was his first gig, that was a long time ago, and how players feel about a manager doesn't change how good of a baseball player they are.

[SouthSideRyan]

Trammell let the players walk all over him during his tenure in Detroit

 

I've never heard this before. What were the examples? It wasn't just Detroit writers mad that Trammel wasn't making a Sandberg-like spectacle of himself yelling at players who clearly weren't talented enough to do anything beyond be the worst team in the majors?

[jaxxradio]

Getting your cleanup hitters ready to lay bunts down in the early innings of a game has absolutely nothing to do with fundamentals or getting players ready for the majors.

 

I'm sure it has to do with his self righteous "play the game the right way" mentality, which is exactly why I want him nowhere near the managerial job at the big club.

 

I beg to differ..it has everything to do with fundamentals. I agree that the timing is bizarre, but the Cubs player development philosophy over the last eight years or so has been to get every player fundamentally sound (that includes the art of bunting). You also have to understand that wins and losses mean very little in the minors, which is probably why he has/had his cleanup hitters laying down bunts every now and then.

 

The other thing everyone needs to understand is the fact that Sandberg wouldn't be managing this way in the majors. His managerial style would be alot different..I can guarantee you that Lee or Ramirez wouldn't be laying down a bunt with guys on base.

[jersey cubs fan]

Getting your cleanup hitters ready to lay bunts down in the early innings of a game has absolutely nothing to do with fundamentals or getting players ready for the majors.

 

I'm sure it has to do with his self righteous "play the game the right way" mentality, which is exactly why I want him nowhere near the managerial job at the big club.

 

I beg to differ..it has everything to do with fundamentals. I agree that the timing is bizarre, but the Cubs player development philosophy over the last eight years or so has been to get every player fundamentally sound (that includes the art of bunting). You also have to understand that wins and losses mean very little in the minors, which is probably why he has/had his cleanup hitters laying down bunts every now and then.

 

The other thing everyone needs to understand is the fact that Sandberg wouldn't be managing this way in the majors. His managerial style would be alot different..I can guarantee you that Lee or Ramirez wouldn't be laying down a bunt with guys on base.

So then if you admit they wouldn't do it in the majors, why would they be working on it in the minors?

[USSoccer]

I don't see how it's anything but Sandberg projecting his old timey baseball gritvalue on his team.

[Guest]

There's no valid way to test the hypothesis unless Sandberg gets a chance to manage in the majors. Both explanations have roughly equal explanation power of the existing data.

[craig]

Back and forth

A. Sandberg bunts too much.

B. Sandberg is trying to teach prospects fundamentals

A. Bunting is not an important fundamental worth teaching.

B. It is.

A. 3rd and 4th place hitters will never bunt, so it won't be important to them.

B. Guys who bat 3rd or 4th in the minors often bat 2nd or 7th or 8th in the majors, so it may be important.

A. Bunting is almost worthless.

B. The manager/GM set the job requirements. If they want a potential employee to bunt, it helps if the job-seeker can bunt. Even if it's dumb or counterproductive or rare that the manager will actually ask the prospective employee to do so in a games.

[sneakypower]

Trammell let the players walk all over him during his tenure in Detroit

 

I've never heard this before. What were the examples? It wasn't just Detroit writers mad that Trammel wasn't making a Sandberg-like spectacle of himself yelling at players who clearly weren't talented enough to do anything beyond be the worst team in the majors?

no, there were quite a few examples

 

a couple that i immediately recall were: Pudge taking a sabbatical in Puerto Rico or Venezuela while injured and not reporting back to the team, Rondell White, Inge and Ugie Urbina getting in a brawl on a plane, and something with Da Meat Hook sexually assaulting a flight attendant i think

 

the inmates were definitely running the asylum

[jersey cubs fan]

Aside from possibly Pudge leaving the team while injured, none of that says "walking over the coach", it's just stuff that comes to light on bad baseball teams.

 

The 86 Mets did worse stuff every week.

[Sammy Sofa]

Given Urbina's habits of attempting to kill people with both fire and machetes, I don't think you can automatically jump to the conclusion that a fight involving him is a case of someone "walking all over the manager" so much as it's "hey, that crazy guy who wants to murder people is getting into fights."

[SouthSideRyan]

Given Urbina's habits of attempting to kill people with both fire and machetes, I don't think you can automatically jump to the conclusion that a fight involving him is a case of someone "walking all over the manager" so much as it's "hey, that crazy guy who wants to murder people is getting into fights."

 

It was Trammel's calming influence that kept him out of prison.

[jaxxradio]

Getting your cleanup hitters ready to lay bunts down in the early innings of a game has absolutely nothing to do with fundamentals or getting players ready for the majors.

 

I'm sure it has to do with his self righteous "play the game the right way" mentality, which is exactly why I want him nowhere near the managerial job at the big club.

 

I beg to differ..it has everything to do with fundamentals. I agree that the timing is bizarre, but the Cubs player development philosophy over the last eight years or so has been to get every player fundamentally sound (that includes the art of bunting). You also have to understand that wins and losses mean very little in the minors, which is probably why he has/had his cleanup hitters laying down bunts every now and then.

 

The other thing everyone needs to understand is the fact that Sandberg wouldn't be managing this way in the majors. His managerial style would be alot different..I can guarantee you that Lee or Ramirez wouldn't be laying down a bunt with guys on base.

So then if you admit they wouldn't do it in the majors, why would they be working on it in the minors?

 

I will admit Lee or Ramirez won't be bunting anytime soon.. but there isn't a player in the Cubs system that comes remotely close to Lee or Ramirez offensively, so I won't admit that anybody else other than these two wouldn't work on bunting in the majors.

[sneakypower]

the tigers underachieved their pythagorean record by 4, 7 and 3 games over his three seasons and the players didn't seem to display much respect for him

 

so what's the draw here?

[biittner77]

the tigers underachieved their pythagorean record by 4, 7 and 3 games over his three seasons and the players didn't seem to display much respect for him

 

so what's the draw here?

 

Perhaps he learned from that experience and is better for it. Joe Torre wasn't very good in his first managerial stint but he did ok later with the Yankees.

 

Also, practically anybody would be better than Sandberg. I'd rather remember him as a player than see him ultimately fail as manager. As a player he was a great hitter that didn't say much. It seems as manager he's Larry Bowa with maybe a little more credibility.

[jersey cubs fan]

the tigers underachieved their pythagorean record by 4, 7 and 3 games over his three seasons and the players didn't seem to display much respect for him

 

so what's the draw here?

 

There's no "draw" with any manager really. They don't add anything to the team. Joe Torre didn't make the Yankees better than Showalter could have, it was the cast of superstars all emerging at once that turned a good team into a great one. Trammel could just fill a hole a little better than somebody like Sandberg who might feel the need to come and put his imprint all over the team by "making things happen", which mostly just leads to trouble.

[Eric Clipperton]

the tigers underachieved their pythagorean record by 4, 7 and 3 games over his three seasons and the players didn't seem to display much respect for him

 

so what's the draw here?

 

There's no "draw" with any manager really. They don't add anything to the team. Joe Torre didn't make the Yankees better than Showalter could have, it was the cast of superstars all emerging at once that turned a good team into a great one. Trammel could just fill a hole a little better than somebody like Sandberg who might feel the need to come and put his imprint all over the team by "making things happen", which mostly just leads to trouble.

 

This. Managers can't help much, but they can hurt a whole lot. Less is generally more, because "crafty old-time baseball" plays are generally negative expectation strategies.

 

I stand by the statement that NSBB consensus would be easily one of the best managers/GMs in the major leagues. Especially with the level of information which would be available to one in such a position of power.

[ChiefsVoice]

Getting your cleanup hitters ready to lay bunts down in the early innings of a game has absolutely nothing to do with fundamentals or getting players ready for the majors.

 

I'm sure it has to do with his self righteous "play the game the right way" mentality, which is exactly why I want him nowhere near the managerial job at the big club.

 

I beg to differ..it has everything to do with fundamentals. I agree that the timing is bizarre, but the Cubs player development philosophy over the last eight years or so has been to get every player fundamentally sound (that includes the art of bunting). You also have to understand that wins and losses mean very little in the minors, which is probably why he has/had his cleanup hitters laying down bunts every now and then.

 

The other thing everyone needs to understand is the fact that Sandberg wouldn't be managing this way in the majors. His managerial style would be alot different..I can guarantee you that Lee or Ramirez wouldn't be laying down a bunt with guys on base.

So then if you admit they wouldn't do it in the majors, why would they be working on it in the minors?

 

I will admit Lee or Ramirez won't be bunting anytime soon.. but there isn't a player in the Cubs system that comes remotely close to Lee or Ramirez offensively, so I won't admit that anybody else other than these two wouldn't work on bunting in the majors.

 

As the person who has seen Ryne manage the most over the last 3 years he has easily gotten a bad rap for this bunting stuff. The Chiefs laid down a total of 38 sac bunts in 2007 and 22 of our 66 in 2008 game from Nate Samson and we were AWFUL scoring runs in 2008. And players bunt in the minors for the same reason that closers almost always work 2 innings and dont pitch on back to back days. Its about learning, not about winning.

 

And Vitters, Jackson and Colvin all had better numbers in A ball than Lee (Can you imagine how down everyone would have been on Lee for hitting .267/8/53 in High A in 1994 then starting his 3rd year there in 1995?). But he turned out just fine.

 

Ryno will be fine. At Iowa and in Chicago. Cubs fans shouldn't worry about his desire and ability to manage. just my 2 cents. Can't wait for the season to start!

[jersey cubs fan]

Ryno will be fine. At Iowa and in Chicago. Cubs fans shouldn't worry about his desire and ability to manage. just my 2 cents. Can't wait for the season to start!

 

I only worry about his desire to put his imprint on the game by "making things happen" which is just stupid baseball.

[ChiefsVoice]

Ryno will be fine. At Iowa and in Chicago. Cubs fans shouldn't worry about his desire and ability to manage. just my 2 cents. Can't wait for the season to start!

 

I only worry about his desire to put his imprint on the game by "making things happen" which is just stupid baseball.

 

Maybe, but that (small ball) has worked well for Scioscia, Ozzie and Larussa (hell he hits the pitcher 8th which is more than just stupid)...plus you manage a completely different way in the minors and the Majors. look at Terry Francona. I bet he bunted and tried made things happen while trying to hide a .200 hitting Michael Jordan in 1994 in Double A.

[jersey cubs fan]

Ryno will be fine. At Iowa and in Chicago. Cubs fans shouldn't worry about his desire and ability to manage. just my 2 cents. Can't wait for the season to start!

 

I only worry about his desire to put his imprint on the game by "making things happen" which is just stupid baseball.

 

Maybe, but that (small ball) has worked well for Scioscia, Ozzie and Larussa (hell he hits the pitcher 8th which is more than just stupid)...plus you manage a completely different way in the minors and the Majors. look at Terry Francona. I bet he bunted and tried made things happen while trying to hide a .200 hitting Michael Jordan in 1994 in Double A.

 

How has it worked well for Ozzie? Ozzie ball is a myth. They won a WS in a year when they led the league in HR and had great pitching. It had nothing to do with small ball, and they've been largely mediocre outside that season. Scioscia is the only one to really make it work, but he's had the benefit of playing in a 4 team division with 3 really crappy rivals. Larusa lives on Pujols and Duncan's magic pitching coach abilities.

 

There's plenty of failures in the coaching ranks who have tried this nonsense, notably Baylor and Baker.