What's with all the Sandberg hate around here?

[Atta Boy]

 

I would much rather manufacture 3 runs a game with this pitching staff than the current 1 every other day then 6 the others.

 

They are averaging 4.48 runs a game. You'd rather get 3 runs a game than average 4.48 a game, just because it might be more consistent?

 

I'm by no means a stat head whatsoever, but how skewed is that statistic. Just because you average 4.8 runs a game does not mean that you usually get 4.8 per game. We have had a few really big games this year that bump that up considerably. Obviously this doesn't happen often but that 17 run game a few days ago plus three one run games avgs near that figure.

 

I could be wrong here, but it seems like we have had an unusual amount of games that we just can't score a run to save a life. Instead of adjusting to that a few innings in and try to scrape for some runs, Lou seems to just cross his finger for that one big inning and we end up losing by one run.

 

What teams consistently manufacture 3 runs every game?

 

I don't have an answer for that. I rarely ever pay any attention to how another club scores its runs. From watching this team, day in and day out, I see a team that could benefit from playing smaller ball on occasions. This team seems to have slumps together and go on tears together. When everyone on the team is having a power outage, why not try a different approach until they start pulling it together.

[J.R.]

[expletive] gag me

 

Thanks for reminding me how awful that speech was. Completely classless of him to spew his petty hatred of Sosa from the HOF podium.

 

That said, I loved him back in the day.

[17 Seconds]

 

I would much rather manufacture 3 runs a game with this pitching staff than the current 1 every other day then 6 the others.

 

They are averaging 4.48 runs a game. You'd rather get 3 runs a game than average 4.48 a game, just because it might be more consistent?

 

I'm by no means a stat head whatsoever, but how skewed is that statistic. Just because you average 4.8 runs a game does not mean that you usually get 4.8 per game. We have had a few really big games this year that bump that up considerably. Obviously this doesn't happen often but that 17 run game a few days ago plus three one run games avgs near that figure.

 

I could be wrong here, but it seems like we have had an unusual amount of games that we just can't score a run to save a life. Instead of adjusting to that a few innings in and try to scrape for some runs, Lou seems to just cross his finger for that one big inning and we end up losing by one run.

 

What teams consistently manufacture 3 runs every game?

 

I don't have an answer for that. I rarely ever pay any attention to how another club scores its runs. From watching this team, day in and day out, I see a team that could benefit from playing smaller ball on occasions. This team seems to have slumps together and go on tears together. When everyone on the team is having a power outage, why not try a different approach until they start pulling it together.

 

When a team is struggling to score runs, the last thing you want to do is give away more outs.

 

I'll say this again- Ryne Sandberg's offensive philosophy = Dusty Baker's offensive philosophy

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I don't hate Sandberg at all, but I don't want him anywhere near the Cubs as manager. First of all, I'm pretty sure he'd suck as manager. Secondly, Ryno is my favorite all-time player and I'd hate for him to tarnish my affection for him by running the team into the ground by being its manager.

[imb]

i loved sandberg when i was a kid, and maybe it's selfish of me, but i really would like that to be how i remember him

 

when i was 10, the only thing i wanted in the world was a ryne sandberg rookie card. the card shop in my town never, ever saw one come in, and i'd know, because i went there every day between school and soccer or basketball practice. i even worked there as a 10-year old. i was paid in baseball cards and pizza, it was a dream job.

 

i never kept enough expendable cash around as a kid to buy a sandberg rookie (the topps one, thank you very much) at a card show whenever one would come to tulsa - i always blew it all on gi joes and more baseball cards, and we didnt have ebay back then.

 

anyway, a couple of years ago, on a whim I bought a sandberg RC off ebay. It really is one of my favorite possessions, just looking at it brings me back to being that 10-year old boy, riding his bike and playing baseball and watching cubs games on wgn every summer day. But i dont want sandberg anywhere near this big league team.

[bhogg]

Even if he wasn't terrible, he'd get fired. That would be no fun having your childhood baseball idol getting canned. . .. . even worse: wanting him to get canned.

 

I can't imagine them bumping him from AA to the majors. I guess he could get a major league coaching job with the Cubs.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I remember when I finally got a Sandberg rookie card. The first one I got was the fleer...and then the Donruss, and finally I got a Topps one. I still prize those.

[Roast]

When Sandberg was still playing, I was still too young to follow/care about baseball so I don't have any of the fond memories many of the people on this board do. That makes it a lot easier for me to dislike him, I suppose, for that Hall of Fame speech. He spoke of "respecting the game," but to me, it shows a complete lack of respect to the game to use your induction speech to take shots at other players. He came off sounding like a bitter, bitter old man.

 

Granted, the person he was most clearly taking shots at was my favorite player growing up, so that probably plays into it, too.

 

All that aside, though; I don't want him anywhere near this team. His hardon for 'playing the game the right way' sounds far too much like 'playing the game the way people thought it was best to be played years ago, regardless of any new-fangled "stats" proving that some of these methods are outdated or even flat out wrong.'

 

or something.

[Shilzzz]

Before Lou got hired I remember Sandberg politic-ing pretty hard for the job. Hendry told him if he wants to be a big league manager to go to Peoria, and work his way up, and earn the spot. So that's what he's doing. I fear the day he gets hired.

 

I played second base and had a haircut similar to his as a kid b/c that's who i wanted to be like when i grew up. I just think his personality... something about it would end up getting ugly before too long, like i imagine he'd throw people under the bus, or just that he'd show little tact. By itself that's bad enough, but add that to giving up outs...

[bcl412]

I think if Sandberg is hired we're going to have plenty of years similar to 2006.

[dew1679666265]

I don't have an answer for that. I rarely ever pay any attention to how another club scores its runs. From watching this team, day in and day out, I see a team that could benefit from playing smaller ball on occasions. This team seems to have slumps together and go on tears together. When everyone on the team is having a power outage, why not try a different approach until they start pulling it together.

 

Here's a few numbers that may help clear this up a bit.

 

We've scored 1-3 runs in a game 41 times and 4-6 runs in a game 40 times. We've scored 7+ 25 times and scored none 9 times.

 

By contrast, the best offense in baseball this year (the Phillies) have scored 1-3 runs 38 times, 4-6 runs 37 times, 7+ runs 35 times and have been shutout 4 times.

 

So, the Cubs and Phillies' differential between 1-3 run games and 4-6 run games is the same. The only difference between the offenses is that the Phillies score 7+ more often and get shutout less.

 

In our shutouts, we've lost by 2 runs twice, 3 runs three times, 4 runs twice, 6 runs once and 10 runs once.

 

It appears that the offense has been worse this year because they've scored a bunch of runs in a game less instead of going from 4-6 runs in a game to 1-3 runs. For instance, last year's Cubs team scored 7+ runs 57 times, 1-3 runs 58 times, 4-6 runs 38 times and were shutout 8 times. So, for the most part, a number of last year's 7+ run games have turned into 4-6 run games.

[dew1679666265]

Before Lou got hired I remember Sandberg politic-ing pretty hard for the job. Hendry told him if he wants to be a big league manager to go to Peoria, and work his way up, and earn the spot. So that's what he's doing. I fear the day he gets hired.

 

I played second base and had a haircut similar to his as a kid b/c that's who i wanted to be like when i grew up. I just think his personality... something about it would end up getting ugly before too long, like i imagine he'd throw people under the bus, or just that he'd show little tact. By itself that's bad enough, but add that to giving up outs...

 

I mentioned this in another thread, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if this scenario occurs: Lou retires after the year, Trammell is promoted to manager and Ryno takes over Trammell's current role.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Not that I want Ryno as the team manager, but just exactly how do we know what his managerial philosophy is?

 

He's managing in AA.

 

 

 

I know that. What I'm getting at is that (assuming) the majority of us don't see him manage everyday. Maybe you manage minor league guys different that you would major leaguers. I really don't know.

 

Granted, if he's come right out and said he's a sac bunt, hit and run type guy that's probably not what the club needs.

 

Aside from Rocket said, if anything you'd want a minor league manager to do even less of the intervening moves, since those games are primarily about individual development. Sandberg trying sac bunts with the 3rd hitter of the game, hitting and running all the time, and getting thrown out for arguing every 2 weeks is a very bad sign down there.

[Rob]

I don't have the book on me, but I remember reading a biography of him where he lashed out at... I wanna say it was Dallas Green... for having some computer printouts designed to help dictate strategy.

[Magnetic Curses]

Not that I want Ryno as the team manager, but just exactly how do we know what his managerial philosophy is?

 

He's managing in AA.

 

 

 

I know that. What I'm getting at is that (assuming) the majority of us don't see him manage everyday. Maybe you manage minor league guys different that you would major leaguers. I really don't know.

 

Granted, if he's come right out and said he's a sac bunt, hit and run type guy that's probably not what the club needs.

 

Aside from Rocket said, if anything you'd want a minor league manager to do even less of the intervening moves, since those games are primarily about individual development. Sandberg trying sac bunts with the 3rd hitter of the game, hitting and running all the time, and getting thrown out for arguing every 2 weeks is a very bad sign down there.

 

they have to learn the fundamentals!

[Outshined_One]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, memories...

[Outshined_One]

Also, if anyone could dig up those columns Sandberg wrote on Yahoo awhile back, you'd see why I have no interest in having the man manage. He said a lot of the same things mentioned in his HOF Speech about fundamentals, bunting, etc.

[J.R.]

I don't have the book on me, but I remember reading a biography of him where he lashed out at... I wanna say it was Dallas Green... for having some computer printouts designed to help dictate strategy.

 

It was Larry Himes. Sandberg hated him because of Sosa and the Cubs' new video room.

 

He worships DG.

[cl smooth]

I don't have the book on me, but I remember reading a biography of him where he lashed out at... I wanna say it was Dallas Green... for having some computer printouts designed to help dictate strategy.

 

It was Larry Himes. Sandberg hated him because of Sosa and the Cubs' new video room.

 

He worships DG.

 

yeah, sandberg has no love for larry himes as noted in his biography second to home. if my memory is correct (i haven't read the book in almost 5 years), he was pissed at himes for not re-signing dawson and letting maddux go to the braves. dallas green is the one who insisted that he be a part of the larry bowa trade, so sandberg has a lot of respect for green.

 

sandberg is my all-time favorite baseball player, but his speech at the '05 HOF was just a "back in my day..." rant and him grinding his sammy sosa axe for 15 minutes. kinda disappointing to hear him rag like that on the biggest day of his professional baseball career (so far).

[Sammys Boombox]

I don't pay enough attention to the way Sandberg has managed in the minors, so I can't comment on that. However, if his philosophy was similar to Tony LaRussa, where every player on the team was capable of bunting and could use it in certain situations, I would have no problem with that. For instance, I remember a time when Edmonds was leading off and the Cubs had a big pull shift on him. It was late innings of a tied or one-run game. He just bunted a ball down the third base line and they had absolutely no chance of getting him out. He ended up scoring.

 

Now assume this. Soriano is in one of those slumps where he's very likely to strikeout. Runners on first and second, 0 outs, tie game, late innings. Baker or Soto is on deck and have been hot lately. If Soriano can get the bunt down, at least he'll make a productive out. I do think that every player should be capable of bunting.

 

However, it drives me nuts when Theriot bunts in the first inning after Fukudome gets a base hit.

[Roast]

I don't pay enough attention to the way Sandberg has managed in the minors, so I can't comment on that. However, if his philosophy was similar to Tony LaRussa, where every player on the team was capable of bunting and could use it in certain situations, I would have no problem with that. For instance, I remember a time when Edmonds was leading off and the Cubs had a big pull shift on him. It was late innings of a tied or one-run game. He just bunted a ball down the third base line and they had absolutely no chance of getting him out. He ended up scoring.

 

Now assume this. Soriano is in one of those slumps where he's very likely to strikeout. Runners on first and second, 0 outs, tie game, late innings. Baker or Soto is on deck and have been hot lately. If Soriano can get the bunt down, at least he'll make a productive out. I do think that every player should be capable of bunting.

 

However, it drives me nuts when Theriot bunts in the first inning after Fukudome gets a base hit.

I have no problem with every player being capable of bunting. But it comes down to the fact that there are very few instances in which giving the defense a free out is actually productive. It would seem that Sandberg doesn't understand this. And yes, if I was king bunting would be outlawed in the first inning.

[Rob]

I don't have the book on me, but I remember reading a biography of him where he lashed out at... I wanna say it was Dallas Green... for having some computer printouts designed to help dictate strategy.

 

It was Larry Himes. Sandberg hated him because of Sosa and the Cubs' new video room.

 

He worships DG.

 

yeah, sandberg has no love for larry himes as noted in his biography second to home. if my memory is correct (i haven't read the book in almost 5 years), he was pissed at himes for not re-signing dawson and letting maddux go to the braves. dallas green is the one who insisted that he be a part of the larry bowa trade, so sandberg has a lot of respect for green.

 

sandberg is my all-time favorite baseball player, but his speech at the '05 HOF was just a "back in my day..." rant and him grinding his sammy sosa axe for 15 minutes. kinda disappointing to hear him rag like that on the biggest day of his professional baseball career (so far).

 

Yeah, that was it...

 

Deep down, I knew it wasn't Dallas Green... but I couldn't figure for the life of me who else it would have been. Now I just feel stupid.

[Garwilly]

I loved his HOF speech.

[kujay]

Before Lou got hired I remember Sandberg politic-ing pretty hard for the job. Hendry told him if he wants to be a big league manager to go to Peoria, and work his way up, and earn the spot. So that's what he's doing. I fear the day he gets hired.

 

I played second base and had a haircut similar to his as a kid b/c that's who i wanted to be like when i grew up. I just think his personality... something about it would end up getting ugly before too long, like i imagine he'd throw people under the bus, or just that he'd show little tact. By itself that's bad enough, but add that to giving up outs...

 

I never really cared for Ryno as a guy even if I loved him as a player. You could just kind of tell he was an ass. Like Scottie Pippen.

 

But his "politicking" for the job after doing absolutely nothing to earn it a few years ago really turned me off. He thought he could walk in on reputation and handle one of the toughest managing jobs in sports.

[Atta Boy]

I don't have an answer for that. I rarely ever pay any attention to how another club scores its runs. From watching this team, day in and day out, I see a team that could benefit from playing smaller ball on occasions. This team seems to have slumps together and go on tears together. When everyone on the team is having a power outage, why not try a different approach until they start pulling it together.

 

Here's a few numbers that may help clear this up a bit.

 

We've scored 1-3 runs in a game 41 times and 4-6 runs in a game 40 times. We've scored 7+ 25 times and scored none 9 times.

 

By contrast, the best offense in baseball this year (the Phillies) have scored 1-3 runs 38 times, 4-6 runs 37 times, 7+ runs 35 times and have been shutout 4 times.

 

So, the Cubs and Phillies' differential between 1-3 run games and 4-6 run games is the same. The only difference between the offenses is that the Phillies score 7+ more often and get shutout less.

 

In our shutouts, we've lost by 2 runs twice, 3 runs three times, 4 runs twice, 6 runs once and 10 runs once.

 

It appears that the offense has been worse this year because they've scored a bunch of runs in a game less instead of going from 4-6 runs in a game to 1-3 runs. For instance, last year's Cubs team scored 7+ runs 57 times, 1-3 runs 58 times, 4-6 runs 38 times and were shutout 8 times. So, for the most part, a number of last year's 7+ run games have turned into 4-6 run games.

 

Thanks for taking the time to put that together. Puts some perspective on where this team is different and it's not where I thought.

 

I don't pay enough attention to the way Sandberg has managed in the minors, so I can't comment on that. However, if his philosophy was similar to Tony LaRussa, where every player on the team was capable of bunting and could use it in certain situations, I would have no problem with that. For instance, I remember a time when Edmonds was leading off and the Cubs had a big pull shift on him. It was late innings of a tied or one-run game. He just bunted a ball down the third base line and they had absolutely no chance of getting him out. He ended up scoring.

 

Now assume this. Soriano is in one of those slumps where he's very likely to strikeout. Runners on first and second, 0 outs, tie game, late innings. Baker or Soto is on deck and have been hot lately. If Soriano can get the bunt down, at least he'll make a productive out. I do think that every player should be capable of bunting.

 

However, it drives me nuts when Theriot bunts in the first inning after Fukudome gets a base hit.

 

This is basically the way I feel about it. When Soriano slumps he turns into Paul Bako. If he is going to get out anyway why not make sure that you get something out of it.