This Team Needs Alfonso Soriano

[hossdriver]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

[dew1679666265]

So Pujols should be a leadoff man, too?

 

I'm not saying good Soriano absolutely should hit leadoff. I don't think he should drop below the top three to four hitters, though. In the Cubs' situation, Lee and Aramis were already entrenched in the 3-4 spots, leaving the top 1-2 spots for Soriano. I was fine with him hitting in either of those spots.

 

As for Pujols, I wouldn't necessarily move him there from the #3 spot in the order, but I wouldn't find it outlandish to lead him off. Skip Shumaker played 110 games in the leadoff spot and had 536 PAs. Pujols played 143 games in the 3rd spot and had 636 PAs. Pujols had 100 more PAs in 30 more games. Had Schumaker played as many games as Pujols at the average number of PAs he was getting per game, Schumaker would have had 50 more PAs than Pujols. Not a huge difference, but imagine Pujols getting 50 more PAs a season.

 

Moving Soriano from 1st in the lineup to 5th last year would have decreased his PAs by nearly 100. That's significant.

[17 Seconds]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

 

Now post Aramis' numbers in the last 2 postseasons

[hossdriver]

My feeling is that the 2008 Cubs led the league in scoring DESPITE using Soriano at leadoff.

 

I'd like to see a guy with a higher OBP giving MORE OPPORTUNITIES to guys like Lee and Ramirez. Soriano has yet to score 100 runs in a season as a leadoff hitter. You would think that with the offense the Cubs had in 2008, he would come around to score more.

 

Rickie Weeks, as an example, has nearly equal ABs as a leadoff hitter in Milwaukee, a lower OBP and BA, yet scored 10 MORE RUNS and hitting 18 less homers...

 

Soriano just isn't maximized as a leadoff hitter, and he absolutely KILLS the team as a spark plug against good pitching...

[rocket]

I think your post needs MORE RANDOM capitalization

[Derwood]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

 

Now post Aramis' numbers in the last 2 postseasons

 

hint: they're worse than Soriano's

[hossdriver]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

 

Now post Aramis' numbers in the last 2 postseasons

 

 

Yeah, he's been terrible too. But this thread is about Soriano. Sammy was terrible in the postseason too. Aramis I give a reprieve because he he was key in 2003.

[Sammy Sofa]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

 

Now post Aramis' numbers in the last 2 postseasons

 

 

Yeah, he's been terrible too. But this thread is about Soriano. Sammy was terrible in the postseason too. Aramis I give a reprieve because he he was key in 2003.

 

Soriano was key in 2007 and 2008.

[hossdriver]

I think your post needs MORE RANDOM capitalization

 

Except that it shows emphasis, and is not random... Would you prefer bold or italics?

 

What about underline?

[hossdriver]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

 

Now post Aramis' numbers in the last 2 postseasons

 

 

Yeah, he's been terrible too. But this thread is about Soriano. Sammy was terrible in the postseason too. Aramis I give a reprieve because he he was key in 2003.

 

Soriano was key in 2007 and 2008.

 

 

Talkin' about playoffs... Where neither were key...

[Sammy Sofa]

Ah, gotcha, so you're another one of these "playoff sample sizes trump all" proponents.

[17 Seconds]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

 

Now post Aramis' numbers in the last 2 postseasons

 

 

Yeah, he's been terrible too. But this thread is about Soriano. Sammy was terrible in the postseason too. Aramis I give a reprieve because he he was key in 2003.

 

Soriano had a big home run in the World Series with the Yankees. So he should get a "reprieve" too.

[inari]

Would've been a championship winning homer if not for Rivera blowing the save.

[chopsx9]

So Pujols should be a leadoff man, too?

 

I'm not saying good Soriano absolutely should hit leadoff. I don't think he should drop below the top three to four hitters, though. In the Cubs' situation, Lee and Aramis were already entrenched in the 3-4 spots, leaving the top 1-2 spots for Soriano. I was fine with him hitting in either of those spots.

 

As for Pujols, I wouldn't necessarily move him there from the #3 spot in the order, but I wouldn't find it outlandish to lead him off. Skip Shumaker played 110 games in the leadoff spot and had 536 PAs. Pujols played 143 games in the 3rd spot and had 636 PAs. Pujols had 100 more PAs in 30 more games. Had Schumaker played as many games as Pujols at the average number of PAs he was getting per game, Schumaker would have had 50 more PAs than Pujols. Not a huge difference, but imagine Pujols getting 50 more PAs a season.

 

Moving Soriano from 1st in the lineup to 5th last year would have decreased his PAs by nearly 100. That's significant.

 

 

I guess the weight of that argument would depend a little bit on on who got those 100 at bats instead. If they got on base a better clip than Soriano I wouldn't have too much of an issue - factor in more people on base when Soriano did come to bat and its pretty easy to rationalize a net gain.

 

I wouldn't bat him second, and with Lee and Ramirez on the the team (and producing) I couldn't justify him hitting third or fourth - I could see an argument where you would move Lee to 2nd - in which case I would bat him 4th - ultimately I would disagree with the move of Lee but I understand the reasoning.

 

FWIW I would find it outlandish to bat Pujols leadoff

[dew1679666265]

So Pujols should be a leadoff man, too?

 

I'm not saying good Soriano absolutely should hit leadoff. I don't think he should drop below the top three to four hitters, though. In the Cubs' situation, Lee and Aramis were already entrenched in the 3-4 spots, leaving the top 1-2 spots for Soriano. I was fine with him hitting in either of those spots.

 

As for Pujols, I wouldn't necessarily move him there from the #3 spot in the order, but I wouldn't find it outlandish to lead him off. Skip Shumaker played 110 games in the leadoff spot and had 536 PAs. Pujols played 143 games in the 3rd spot and had 636 PAs. Pujols had 100 more PAs in 30 more games. Had Schumaker played as many games as Pujols at the average number of PAs he was getting per game, Schumaker would have had 50 more PAs than Pujols. Not a huge difference, but imagine Pujols getting 50 more PAs a season.

 

Moving Soriano from 1st in the lineup to 5th last year would have decreased his PAs by nearly 100. That's significant.

 

 

I guess the weight of that argument would depend a little bit on on who got those 100 at bats instead. If they got on base a better clip than Soriano I wouldn't have too much of an issue - factor in more people on base when Soriano did come to bat and its pretty easy to rationalize a net gain.

 

I wouldn't bat him second, and with Lee and Ramirez on the the team (and producing) I couldn't justify him hitting third or fourth - I could see an argument where you would move Lee to 2nd - in which case I would bat him 4th - ultimately I would disagree with the move of Lee but I understand the reasoning.

 

FWIW I would find it outlandish to bat Pujols leadoff

 

I agree that it depends on who's taking the extra ABs. If there is a player who will be more productive who you want in that slot, I have no problem with moving down Soriano. But, putting a guy there who might not be that good but is a traditional leadoff hitter isn't the best choice and in that scenario, Soriano should remain where he is. In the Cubs case the last couple years, there hasn't been a player who really needed to get those extra ABs so I've been fine with a highly productive Soriano batting first.

 

Also consider that good Soriano is a good bet to hit 40+ doubles a year. He doesn't just hit homers, he also hits for extra bases. So, numerous times a year he makes up for his lack of great OBP by getting to second base with one swing of the bat. There's no need for taking a chance on a stolen base or giving up an out to move a more traditional leadoff man over from first. Soriano will generally be in scoring position much easier than a leadoff hitter with virtually no power but a good OBP - and that's important.

 

And on that Pujols comment, if the choice is between 1st in the order and 3rd, I'll tend to lean toward third because the difference in at bats isn't that significant. However, in the Cubs lineup, if you drop Soriano from the top spot in the order, he moves down to fifth or sixth and loses 100+ PAs over the course of a season. I'd much rather bat Pujols 1st than 5th or 6th.

[illiniguy]

Pujols has proven he can be productive in the middle of the lineup. Soriano has not.

 

I really thought the "Soriano hitting leadoff is counterproductive to scoring runs" stuff would stop after we led the league in runs last year. Guess not.

 

 

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

Soriano smells like a rose when he swings at the first two pitches of an AB. He bats .375-.400 in his CAREER when he puts the ball in play in those situations. He's a fastball hitter and does everything AGAINST the theories of what a leadoff hitter should do...

 

He's a great stat padder, but when the game is on the line, and he has two strikes on him, he will FAIL because he refuses to adjust and play the team game.

 

3-28 with a solitary walk in the last two playoff series is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW...

.107/.138/.245 0HR 0RBI

I am sure Soriano is just up there going, I know they are gonna flip a cruve here in the dirt. I know I should take it because it helps the team, but I'm gonna hack. Not because I think I can drive the pitch, but just because it hurts the team and that's what I am going for. Bring on the boos. Once they get done with booing me I will drive my fancy hummer out while honking and waving at them.

 

Oh wait, it's probably that he is a hitter with a weakness. Pretty much like every other hitter.

[SouthSideRyan]

Am I the only one that think Pujols batting 1st in the presently constructed St. Louis is a lineup is a really good idea?

[fromthestretch]

Except that when he actually faces someone on the mound better than a cardboard cutout (as in the playoffs the last two seasons) he is inept at leading off, hitting homeruns, and pretty much anything else offensively...

 

 

vs. C.C. Sabathia (43 PA): .333/.442/.806

vs. Kelvim Escobar (36 PA): .371/.389/.571

vs. Zach Duke (35 PA): .455/.486/.758

vs. Chris Carpenter (34 PA): .364/.382/.576

vs. Tom Glavine (28 PA): .417/.500/.708

vs. Danny Haren (21 PA): .333/.333/.905

vs. Jake Peavy (18 PA): .375/.444/.938

 

Someone needs to tell Chris Carpenter that he's no better than a cardboard cutout.

[fromthestretch]

Soriano has yet to score 100 runs in a season as a leadoff hitter.

 

With the Cubs, that's correct (although he would have easily done so the past two seasons had he not missed significant time due to injuries).

 

He has, however, scored more than 100 runs as a leadoff hitter with other teams. Most recently, he did so for the Nationals in 2006, and they weren't exactly a great offensive team.

[abuck1220]

 

Rickie Weeks, as an example, has nearly equal ABs as a leadoff hitter in Milwaukee, a lower OBP and BA, yet scored 10 MORE RUNS and hitting 18 less homers...

 

 

lol what is this supposed to prove? that weeks wills himself to score better than soriano?

[bukie]

 

Rickie Weeks, as an example, has nearly equal ABs as a leadoff hitter in Milwaukee, a lower OBP and BA, yet scored 10 MORE RUNS and hitting 18 less homers...

 

 

lol what is this supposed to prove? that weeks wills himself to score better than soriano?

I was thinking it was meant to show how unreliable runs are as a measure of singular offensive capability.

[abuck1220]

so he's basically disproving his own terrible argument.

 

good job (?).