Soriano leaving leadoff spot?

[badnews]

Ryan Theriot was once just a "crappy minor leaguer." Nate McLouth was once locked in a dead heat with Chris Duffy with the Pirates for playing time.

 

Plus, I enjoy seeing fresh faces play like crap rather than the same guys I've grown accustomed to playing like crap.

[illiniguy]

Ryan Theriot was once just a "crappy minor leaguer." Nate McLouth was once locked in a dead heat with Chris Duffy with the Pirates for playing time.

 

Plus, I enjoy seeing fresh faces play like crap rather than the same guys I've grown accustomed to playing like crap.

His defense at SS sometimes still screams crappy minor leaguer to me.

[CubColtPacer]

Ok, the Fuld situation first. It's basically irrelevant at this point. Fuld is leaving the team one way or the other Monday morning. There's really no way to get room for him on the roster unless you both go with only 1 backup MI (at a time that both Ramirez and Baker are injury risks) and you also send Jake Fox down to the minor leagues. Getting rid of the 12th pitcher allows you to keep one of those two but not both. An extra OF doesn't fit on this roster when the Cubs already will have 6 that can play out there.

 

So giving him a chance to play is mostly pointless because there is no roster spot for him, and there's nothing he could do in the next 2 days to change that fact.

 

As for Fukudome, he has stabilized his numbers in the last 9 days thanks to some of his power returning.

 

And with Soriano, I don't think Lou will move him back just because Soriano didn't hit for a couple days. When he moved him previously, he moved him because he needed another hitter in the middle of the order. And when Soriano didn't hit the first couple of games, he moved him back in order to get his production from somewhere.

 

This time, Lou would be moving him because of Soriano's huge slump. And if Soriano continues that slump, I think Lou would just send him closer to the bottom of the lineup until Soriano shows that he's breaking out of that slump. When he does break out of the slump, I think Lou might move him back (unless somebody else has simply dazzled in the leadoff spot which I don't expect).

[Keener98]

IF this happens, Im putting the over/under around 5 for the amount of games before hes moved back to the leadoff spot. Im taking the under.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Ok, the Fuld situation first. It's basically irrelevant at this point. Fuld is leaving the team one way or the other Monday morning. There's really no way to get room for him on the roster unless you both go with only 1 backup MI (at a time that both Ramirez and Baker are injury risks) and you also send Jake Fox down to the minor leagues. Getting rid of the 12th pitcher allows you to keep one of those two but not both. An extra OF doesn't fit on this roster when the Cubs already will have 6 that can play out there.

 

 

It is hard to imagine Fuld and Reed on the team at the same time, but remember, at the start of the season we had Gathright and Reed at the same time, and we didnt have a backup shortstop, so if Fuld has 2 great games, dont be surprised to look around Monday and not see Andres Blanco and Micah Hoffpauir.

[dew1679666265]

Ok, the Fuld situation first. It's basically irrelevant at this point. Fuld is leaving the team one way or the other Monday morning. There's really no way to get room for him on the roster unless you both go with only 1 backup MI (at a time that both Ramirez and Baker are injury risks) and you also send Jake Fox down to the minor leagues. Getting rid of the 12th pitcher allows you to keep one of those two but not both. An extra OF doesn't fit on this roster when the Cubs already will have 6 that can play out there.

 

 

It is hard to imagine Fuld and Reed on the team at the same time, but remember, at the start of the season we had Gathright and Reed at the same time, and we didnt have a backup shortstop, so if Fuld has 2 great games, dont be surprised to look around Monday and not see Andres Blanco and Micah Hoffpauir.

 

Demoting Hoffpauir - who's slugging .447 over the course of more than 160 ABs - because Fuld has a few good games would not be a good idea. The bench needs all the power it can get with guys like Blanco, Hill, Miles, etc. on it.

[illiniguy]

Ok, the Fuld situation first. It's basically irrelevant at this point. Fuld is leaving the team one way or the other Monday morning. There's really no way to get room for him on the roster unless you both go with only 1 backup MI (at a time that both Ramirez and Baker are injury risks) and you also send Jake Fox down to the minor leagues. Getting rid of the 12th pitcher allows you to keep one of those two but not both. An extra OF doesn't fit on this roster when the Cubs already will have 6 that can play out there.

 

 

It is hard to imagine Fuld and Reed on the team at the same time, but remember, at the start of the season we had Gathright and Reed at the same time, and we didnt have a backup shortstop, so if Fuld has 2 great games, dont be surprised to look around Monday and not see Andres Blanco and Micah Hoffpauir.

If in two weeks Miles is back on this team and Hoffpauir is let go, well that might be the highlight of the Jim Hendry era.

[Sammy Sofa]

Whoops. Edited July 4, 2009 by Sammy Sofa

[Keener98]

Ok, the Fuld situation first. It's basically irrelevant at this point. Fuld is leaving the team one way or the other Monday morning. There's really no way to get room for him on the roster unless you both go with only 1 backup MI (at a time that both Ramirez and Baker are injury risks) and you also send Jake Fox down to the minor leagues. Getting rid of the 12th pitcher allows you to keep one of those two but not both. An extra OF doesn't fit on this roster when the Cubs already will have 6 that can play out there.

 

 

It is hard to imagine Fuld and Reed on the team at the same time, but remember, at the start of the season we had Gathright and Reed at the same time, and we didnt have a backup shortstop, so if Fuld has 2 great games, dont be surprised to look around Monday and not see Andres Blanco and Micah Hoffpauir.

 

 

You are pulling this Hoff stuff out of your ass, its not happening. Hes our only lefty power bat plain and simple. Hoff is going nowhere

[Sammy Sofa]

But the idea of "fresh faces" simply for the sake of something different rings pretty hollow when "fresh faces" means Sam Fuld and...well, basically just Sam Fuld.

 

Eh not really. Hoff plays OF and so can Fox. You seem to be hung up on this Fuld thing.

 

The only thing I'm "hung up" on is the idea that Fuld should get regular playing time for any kind of indeifnite stretch. Hoff and Fox are indeed guys who should be considered for such play and room made for them before Sam Fuld even enters the discussion.

 

 

It's fun seeing what Fuld did in his first 2 games back this season and hopefully he can have a few more flukes along those lines before all is said and done but he needs to be looked at realistically: Fuld is not a good fulltime player. He's a 5th OFer/late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner kind of guy. Look at his minor league numbers. He's simply not good.

 

Fukudome isn't really a full time player either at this point in his MLB career, yet he's out there. Milton Bradley seems to be a part time player too, yet he is anointed RF.

 

Fukudome has shown sustained stretches where is an excellent player. He also has the history of being an excellent player over in Japan. Granted, that's the Japanese league, but he's shown he's been able to translate that success over here. His dropoff is frustrating, but at least this year he is showing he is still of value if he is able to stick to his awing adjustments. That's likely something it's going to take all year for him to get used to, but he's still showing he can do it. Keep him in a platoon with Johnson and CF is fine. As for Bradley, again, the answer seems simple with his drastic splits: bat him RH and drop him in the order for the time being. He has shown he can produce at all-star levels over his career so I'm all for trying something different that ideally takes the pressure off and he starts hitting. The point with both Bradley and Fukudome is that they have recent track records of success that you want to try and still capitalize on. Trying different spots in the order or platooning them for the time being with other players with certain value and some sustained success at some level (Johnson, Hoff, even Fox) makes sense: benching them indefinitely to give playing time to Sam Fuld does not.

 

 

That is not, however, "excusing" or accepting what the Cubs' OF has largely produced so far this year but replacing any of those players with someone like Sam Fuld is foolish.

 

Some would say doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is foolish.

 

Which I'm not suggesting in the post you replied to. What's even more foolish is giving indefinite starts to a very mediocre at best minor leaguer as opposed to looking for smarter options for the time being with better players (Johnson, Hoff, Fox)

 

Fukudome is clearly well past his hot start, but he's shown at times since then that he can still drive the ball so long as he doesn't revert back to his old spinning ways (largely by not planting his front foot before he swings). It is indeed frustrating that he can't consistently do this, but he's shown he can still pull it off and hopefully the visist with his hitting coach will help as it seemingly did earlier this year. Play him in a strict platoon with Reed Johnson getting the starts and AB's against lefties and the CF production should at least be acceptable.

 

There's really not much reason to play Fuku any more at all really. He should be the first Cubs outfielder to go.

 

That's simply not true. He's clearly seeing, swinging and hitting better over the last 10 games or so. Get him in a platoon with Johnson and the CF production is fine.

 

With Bradley the asnwer seems even more simple: bat him RH. He's hit righty far less than lefty this season, but the disparity between his numbers from either side of the plate simply cannot be ignored. There very likely could be issues of him simply not being apt to dealing with big market pressure, but so long as his RH numbers are staring this team in the face there's really no excuse to not bat him more from the right side. Yes, the Cubs are infatuated with having those LH bats, but the time has come to try and get what you can any way you can from Milton. Bat him almost always RH and drop him to 6th in the order and focus on him just getting on base for at least a couple weeks and see what happens.

 

Makes sense but he'll probably injure himself soon anyway.

 

 

Soriano is obviously a huge question mark. He's never been cold for this long in his career so it raises the question of whether or not he's hurt. I've wanted him to get a DL stint with some confidence-boosting rehab games for a while now but it doesn't seem likely unless he hurts himself even more. I'm welcoming the drop in the lineup. Personally, I'd like to see him dropped to 5th as opposed to 6th. On days when they're facing pitchers he has a poor history against or who don't typically play to his strengths I'd like to see Fox get the start in LF.

 

 

He needs to be moved to 5th/6th and stay there for good.

 

Personally, I'd prefer him to be where he's shown he has the most success once he's able to hit again.

 

 

 

Theriot

Fukudome/Johnson

Lee

Aramis

Soriano/Fox

Bradley

Soto

Blanco/Baker/Fonteot (whichever combo remains after Monday)

Pitcher

 

That's about right.

 

If Bradley shows some serious turnaround after a couple weeks of batting RH and lower in the order I'd want to consider hitting him #2. If Soriano finally busts out of his funk he should go back to leadoff.

 

No he shouldn't.

 

Soriano hitting as he should does what you ideally want a leadoff hitter to do: generate a LOT of runs. That's the bottom line. For whatever reason, he performs at his best from the leadoff spot and at his best he's a worldbeater.

 

 

 

Soriano

Bradley

Lee

Aramis

Fukudome/Johnson

Soto

Theriot

Baker/Fontenot/Blanco (same as above)

Pitcher

 

Hey that looks like the lineup that hasn't worked all year.

 

When have we ever seen that lineup? And I presented that lineup as ideal only AFTER certain guys start hitting consistently (Bradley and Soriano).

 

 

I'd much rather see them try and get creative in terms of getting these guys to start performing at least near what they've shown they're capable of. Sitting them for indeifnite periods for vastly inferior players like Sam Fuld is not the answer.

 

Neither is watching your team go down the drain while doing nothing.

 

Who suggested doing nothing?

 

 

Work with what you have and try to maximize your investments instead of just giving up, because playing Sam Fuld for an extended period of time is basically giving up.

 

Did your girlfriend cheat on you with a gritty guy?

 

It's simply common sense to realize that Sam Fuld to this point has not been a good baseball player for any significant stretch of time and it's extremely unlikely that he suddenly "figures it out" in the bigs with essentially no minor league success.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

[illiniguy]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

If he is there is no debating that we have the worst run organization in all of sports. Sam Fuld can't approach what Milton and Alfonso are doing this year, and they are getting cruicified by fans.

[Sammy Sofa]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise?

 

Screaming idiots like David Kaplan?

[dew1679666265]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

 

I think Lou is rearranging the lineup because Soriano is not producing, not because Fuld has to be in it. If they do DL one of Bradley or Soriano, I have no problem with keeping Fuld on the roster for that period of time.

 

Otherwise, he shouldn't take the roster spot of a better player.

[illiniguy]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

 

I think Lou is rearranging the lineup because Soriano is not producing, not because Fuld has to be in it. If they do DL one of Bradley or Soriano, I have no problem with keeping Fuld on the roster for that period of time.

 

Otherwise, he shouldn't take the roster spot of a better player.

I agree with this, but even then I want to see Hoffpauir playing instead of Fuld.

[dew1679666265]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

 

I think Lou is rearranging the lineup because Soriano is not producing, not because Fuld has to be in it. If they do DL one of Bradley or Soriano, I have no problem with keeping Fuld on the roster for that period of time.

 

Otherwise, he shouldn't take the roster spot of a better player.

I agree with this, but even then I want to see Hoffpauir playing instead of Fuld.

 

As long as Fuld is hitting well he can play but Hoff is definitely the better option over a significant period of time.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

 

I think Lou is rearranging the lineup because Soriano is not producing, not because Fuld has to be in it. If they do DL one of Bradley or Soriano, I have no problem with keeping Fuld on the roster for that period of time.

 

Otherwise, he shouldn't take the roster spot of a better player.

I agree with this, but even then I want to see Hoffpauir playing instead of Fuld.

 

As long as Fuld is hitting well he can play but Hoff is definitely the better option over a significant period of time.

 

But assuming that Lee, Aramis, Soriano, Soto, and Fukudome are all doing there job, Id rather have more of a traditional leadoff guy in the leadoff spot, and assuming that Fuld can do what hes done in his short time in the majors, and the past few weeks in Iowa, thats what he is. If you're going to go with Hoffpauir, may as well just stick with Bradley.

 

Lineup A.

Fuld CF

Theriot SS

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soriano LF

Fukudome RF

Soto C

Fontenot/Baker 2B

 

Lineup B

Theriot SS

Fukudome CF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Hoff/Bradley RF

Soriano LF

Soto C

Font/Baker 2B

[dew1679666265]

But assuming that Lee, Aramis, Soriano, Soto, and Fukudome are all doing there job, Id rather have more of a traditional leadoff guy in the leadoff spot, and assuming that Fuld can do what hes done in his short time in the majors, and the past few weeks in Iowa, thats what he is. If you're going to go with Hoffpauir, may as well just stick with Bradley.

 

Lineup A.

Fuld CF

Theriot SS

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soriano LF

Fukudome RF

Soto C

Fontenot/Baker 2B

 

Lineup B

Theriot SS

Fukudome CF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Hoff/Bradley RF

Soriano LF

Soto C

Font/Baker 2B

 

Fuld hasn't been a particularly good minor leaguer throughout his entire career. Two ML games and a couple of weeks in the minors isn't going to change that. Fuld had a .758 OPS in AAA this year - even if he converted that perfectly to the majors he'd be mediocre. The likelihood is that .758 OPS will drop further. There's simply no good evidence that Fuld can be a quality major leaguer.

 

And if Soriano is hitting well, he scores lots of runs. That's what you want your leadoff man to do, is it not? You also want your best hitters toward the top of the lineup because the higher in the lineup they are, the more at bats they get and the more productive they are. Why then, if Soriano is producing like he's capable of, would you drop him down in the lineup and take away 100+ ABs that he could be incredibly productive in?

[badnews]

Nate McLouth's career minor league line is:

 

.292, .367, .427, .794

 

In his first two major league seasons he had a .755 and .678 OPS.

 

Therefore Sam Fuld is Nate McLouth The 2nd.

[Little Slide Rooter]

But assuming that Lee, Aramis, Soriano, Soto, and Fukudome are all doing there job, Id rather have more of a traditional leadoff guy in the leadoff spot, and assuming that Fuld can do what hes done in his short time in the majors, and the past few weeks in Iowa, thats what he is. If you're going to go with Hoffpauir, may as well just stick with Bradley.

 

Lineup A.

Fuld CF

Theriot SS

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soriano LF

Fukudome RF

Soto C

Fontenot/Baker 2B

 

Lineup B

Theriot SS

Fukudome CF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Hoff/Bradley RF

Soriano LF

Soto C

Font/Baker 2B

 

Fuld hasn't been a particularly good minor leaguer throughout his entire career. Two ML games and a couple of weeks in the minors isn't going to change that. Fuld had a .758 OPS in AAA this year - even if he converted that perfectly to the majors he'd be mediocre. The likelihood is that .758 OPS will drop further. There's simply no good evidence that Fuld can be a quality major leaguer.

 

And if Soriano is hitting well, he scores lots of runs. That's what you want your leadoff man to do, is it not? You also want your best hitters toward the top of the lineup because the higher in the lineup they are, the more at bats they get and the more productive they are. Why then, if Soriano is producing like he's capable of, would you drop him down in the lineup and take away 100+ ABs that he could be incredibly productive in?

 

Fuld has a career minor league line of .287/.370/.409 which is good for a leadoff guy. A leadoff hitter doesnt need to slug .500 or OPS .850

[badnews]

And all of this still strikes me as really stupid considering a great many posters on here a year or so ago wanted to have Reggie Willits' children and were talking about these lavish trades to somehow "pry this budding superstar away from the Angels."

[SouthSideRyan]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise?

 

Screaming idiots like David Kaplan?

 

I can't wait to drink his tears the day Fuld gets sent down.

[SouthSideRyan]

Nate McLouth's career minor league line is:

 

.292, .367, .427, .794

 

In his first two major league seasons he had a .755 and .678 OPS.

 

Therefore Sam Fuld is Nate McLouth The 2nd.

 

And you know well enough that there are 500 Nate McLouths that stayed nobodies for every 1 that became something. Maybe we're wrong, maybe Joshua saw something in his swing that he toyed with and he sees him becoming something more, but that's the type of thing that needs to be proven rather than giving every 750-800 OPS guy a shot in the majors just because Nate McLouth outperformed expectations.

[David]

I really think that Fuld is auditioning the next 2 days. Why would the rearrange the lineup for him otherwise? Maybe Milton will finally get that DL stint hes been in need of since May.

 

 

Seriously?

 

You think Sam Fuld is auditioning for an everyday spot on this team?

 

They're not rearranging anything for Fuld. They're moving Soriano down because he has been making way too many outs to be getting the most PAs on the team.

[dew1679666265]

But assuming that Lee, Aramis, Soriano, Soto, and Fukudome are all doing there job, Id rather have more of a traditional leadoff guy in the leadoff spot, and assuming that Fuld can do what hes done in his short time in the majors, and the past few weeks in Iowa, thats what he is. If you're going to go with Hoffpauir, may as well just stick with Bradley.

 

Lineup A.

Fuld CF

Theriot SS

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soriano LF

Fukudome RF

Soto C

Fontenot/Baker 2B

 

Lineup B

Theriot SS

Fukudome CF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Hoff/Bradley RF

Soriano LF

Soto C

Font/Baker 2B

 

Fuld hasn't been a particularly good minor leaguer throughout his entire career. Two ML games and a couple of weeks in the minors isn't going to change that. Fuld had a .758 OPS in AAA this year - even if he converted that perfectly to the majors he'd be mediocre. The likelihood is that .758 OPS will drop further. There's simply no good evidence that Fuld can be a quality major leaguer.

 

And if Soriano is hitting well, he scores lots of runs. That's what you want your leadoff man to do, is it not? You also want your best hitters toward the top of the lineup because the higher in the lineup they are, the more at bats they get and the more productive they are. Why then, if Soriano is producing like he's capable of, would you drop him down in the lineup and take away 100+ ABs that he could be incredibly productive in?

 

Fuld has a career minor league line of .287/.370/.409 which is good for a leadoff guy. A leadoff hitter doesnt need to slug .500 or OPS .850

 

Most of that was accrued in the low leves (A-, A+). He hasn't had an OPS at or above .800 since he left Daytona (high A). That's a sign that he feasted on barely professional talent and then when it was time to take on legit prospects, he fell off.

 

His slugging hasn't topped .400 since Daytona and his OBP has dropped from .376 his first year in AA/AAA to .358 the past two seasons.