DeRosa a Cardinal (p. 5) + DL'd (p. 13)

[Derwood]

Just wait and sign Derosa in the offseason at this point.

 

That would be a terrible idea.

 

Why's that?

 

he'll be 35

[jersey cubs fan]

Just wait and sign Derosa in the offseason at this point.

 

That would be a terrible idea.

 

Why's that?

 

He will turn 35 before cactus league opens play and if the Cubs finish in the top half of the league they'll lose a draft pick (unless I'm mistaken and those compensation rules have changed).

 

There was never anything wrong with trading DeRosa. The problem was getting minor league relievers for him and replacing him with Miles. If the motivation was to sell high on a guy with a unique late career boost in performance, great, although since I suspect the motivation was a lot more about getting more LH, it's annoying.

[Rusch33]

And Fontenot who they believed at the time was an everyday 2nd basemen.

[SouthSideRyan]

I wouldnt give up Jackson for Dero. Maybe a Casey or 2, but Jax is too good to give up for a rental. How about Hart or Atkins, 1 Casey and Reinhard or Stevens.

 

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

Mitch Atkins has no trade value.

[Banedon]

Just wait and sign Derosa in the offseason at this point.

 

That would be a terrible idea.

 

Why's that?

 

He will turn 35 before cactus league opens play and if the Cubs finish in the top half of the league they'll lose a draft pick (unless I'm mistaken and those compensation rules have changed).

 

There was never anything wrong with trading DeRosa. The problem was getting minor league relievers for him and replacing him with Miles. If the motivation was to sell high on a guy with a unique late career boost in performance, great, although since I suspect the motivation was a lot more about getting more LH, it's annoying.

 

Didn't realize he was that old. I'm terrible with all the FA rules...thanks.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Even if DeRosa is a type A, are we certain the Indians offer arbitration? He's making 5.5 million this year and would likely be in line for a raise. I'm not sure the Indians would want to be on the hook with a 35 yr old DeRosa at 6-6.5 million. So, it could be a case where they don't get any draft compensation if they aren't willing to offer arbitration.

 

If that is factored in, then the level of compensation we would have to send to Cleveland changes a bit.

[dew1679666265]

Even if DeRosa is a type A, are we certain the Indians offer arbitration? He's making 5.5 million this year and would likely be in line for a raise. I'm not sure the Indians would want to be on the hook with a 35 yr old DeRosa at 6-6.5 million. So, it could be a case where they don't get any draft compensation if they aren't willing to offer arbitration.

 

If that is factored in, then the level of compensation we would have to send to Cleveland changes a bit.

 

That's if they're certain they won't offer arbitration. And even if they won't, I would expect them to use it in the negotiations anyway. They don't have to tell other teams they won't offer him arbitration.

 

They might end up taking less if they don't plan to offer it, but a team will have to be prepared to pay dual draft pick price.

[Vanilla Ice]

Even if DeRosa is a type A, are we certain the Indians offer arbitration? He's making 5.5 million this year and would likely be in line for a raise. I'm not sure the Indians would want to be on the hook with a 35 yr old DeRosa at 6-6.5 million. So, it could be a case where they don't get any draft compensation if they aren't willing to offer arbitration.

 

If that is factored in, then the level of compensation we would have to send to Cleveland changes a bit.

 

That's if they're certain they won't offer arbitration. And even if they won't, I would expect them to use it in the negotiations anyway. They don't have to tell other teams they won't offer him arbitration.

 

They might end up taking less if they don't plan to offer it, but a team will have to be prepared to pay dual draft pick price.

I really don't think DeRosa is going to be Type A

[Guest]

Is DeRosa likely to be regarded as a OF or 2B by elias. If he is an OF, he'll be type b. If he is a 2B by the end of the year, he's likely to be type A.

[Vanilla Ice]

Is DeRosa likely to be regarded as a OF or 2B by elias. If he is an OF, he'll be type b. If he is a 2B by the end of the year, he's likely to be type A.

The guy that seems to have figured out the formula has him as a 2B. They are thrown in with the third basemen, though. Also, some dumb stats are used for the rankings. A little bit of the rankings

 

Bottom 5 Type A's

Mike Lowell ----- 79.29

Jason Bartlett

Orlando Cabrera

Scott Rolen

Melvin Mora ----- 69.29

 

Top 10 Type B's

Adrian Beltre ------ 68.57

Placido Polanco

Chone Figgins

Mike Aviles

Aaron Hill ----- 64.6

Jose Lopez

Howie Kendrick

Robinson Cano

Mark DeRosa ----- 60.25

Brendan Harris

 

The data was last updated on June 11. This should be taken with a grain of salt, but he seems to have gotten it right the last two years.

[dew1679666265]

Is DeRosa likely to be regarded as a OF or 2B by elias. If he is an OF, he'll be type b. If he is a 2B by the end of the year, he's likely to be type A.

The guy that seems to have figured out the formula has him as a 2B. They are thrown in with the third basemen, though. Also, some dumb stats are used for the rankings. A little bit of the rankings

 

Bottom 5 Type A's

Mike Lowell ----- 79.29

Jason Bartlett

Orlando Cabrera

Scott Rolen

Melvin Mora ----- 69.29

 

Top 10 Type B's

Adrian Beltre ------ 68.57

Placido Polanco

Chone Figgins

Mike Aviles

Aaron Hill ----- 64.6

Jose Lopez

Howie Kendrick

Robinson Cano

Mark DeRosa ----- 60.25

Brendan Harris

 

The data was last updated on June 11. This should be taken with a grain of salt, but he seems to have gotten it right the last two years.

 

Does that take into account a strong end to the season? I don't know how the numbers can change, but if DeRo ends the year with numbers similar to last year that may be enough.

 

I don't know how the system works, though, so I could be way off. If he's not a Type A after the season, that changes what we'd likely have to give up in a trade - if we are, in fact, interested.

[CubColtPacer]

Is DeRosa likely to be regarded as a OF or 2B by elias. If he is an OF, he'll be type b. If he is a 2B by the end of the year, he's likely to be type A.

 

It will be really close for DeRosa.

 

In 2008-2009, he so far has played these positions:

 

95 2B

64 3B

44 RF

42 LF

8 1B

 

DeRosa will likely be in the 2nd/3rd/SS group. But if they combine the OF games into one grouping instead of separating it out by position, he could be in the OF group by the end of the year. And then the question is..if they combine the OF numbers because they are in the same grouping, will they also do the same thing with second and third base? I'm not sure how many other people have been in that situation like that to compare.

[Vanilla Ice]

Is DeRosa likely to be regarded as a OF or 2B by elias. If he is an OF, he'll be type b. If he is a 2B by the end of the year, he's likely to be type A.

The guy that seems to have figured out the formula has him as a 2B. They are thrown in with the third basemen, though. Also, some dumb stats are used for the rankings. A little bit of the rankings

 

Bottom 5 Type A's

Mike Lowell ----- 79.29

Jason Bartlett

Orlando Cabrera

Scott Rolen

Melvin Mora ----- 69.29

 

Top 10 Type B's

Adrian Beltre ------ 68.57

Placido Polanco

Chone Figgins

Mike Aviles

Aaron Hill ----- 64.6

Jose Lopez

Howie Kendrick

Robinson Cano

Mark DeRosa ----- 60.25

Brendan Harris

 

The data was last updated on June 11. This should be taken with a grain of salt, but he seems to have gotten it right the last two years.

 

Does that take into account a strong end to the season? I don't know how the numbers can change, but if DeRo ends the year with numbers similar to last year that may be enough.

 

I don't know how the system works, though, so I could be way off. If he's not a Type A after the season, that changes what we'd likely have to give up in a trade - if we are, in fact, interested.

DeRosa could end the season really well and get Type A status. The Elias rankings take the last two seasons into account.

 

These are the stats used for 2B/3B/SS. PA, AVG, OBP, HR, RBI, Fielding percentage, Total chances at designated position. If he gets 1B/OF/DH designation, fielding percentage and total chances are not used.

 

The only thing that I could find about what designation he would get is this: Position is designated as the position at which the player appeared the most over the last two seasons. That isn't too helpful, but I would think it means he gets infielder designation

[dew1679666265]

DeRosa could end the season really well and get Type A status. The Elias rankings take the last two seasons into account.

 

These are the stats used for 2B/3B/SS. PA, AVG, OBP, HR, RBI, Fielding percentage, Total chances at designated position. If he gets 1B/OF/DH designation, fielding percentage and total chances are not used.

 

The only thing that I could find about what designation he would get is this: Position is designated as the position at which the player appeared the most over the last two seasons. That isn't too helpful, but I would think it means he gets infielder designation

 

Thanks. It appears he's only nine points (is that the right term?) behind the current Type A designations, so I wonder how strong a second half he'd need to break into it.

[Guest]

I can't imagine giving up Sean Marshall for a DeRo rental period. Seriously?

 

If we offer Seasn Marshall, were giving up too much. If we offer Kevin Hart or Mitch Atkins, its not enough. So wheres the in between? Hart or Atkins+ a few lower pitching prospects? That doesnt sound unreasonable.

 

I would think it'd be based somewhat around a guy like Jay Jackson. Not an elite prospect, but a pretty good one. Randy Wells might also be a guy to base the deal around if the Indians are in love with his start to the year.

 

You have to consider that if the Indians keep him and offer arbitration, he'd be worth a pair of first round picks to them. We'd have to come close to that kind of compensation to get them interested, I'd imagine.

 

I wouldn't give up Marshall or Jackson for DeRosa.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I can't imagine giving up Sean Marshall for a DeRo rental period. Seriously?

 

If we offer Seasn Marshall, were giving up too much. If we offer Kevin Hart or Mitch Atkins, its not enough. So wheres the in between? Hart or Atkins+ a few lower pitching prospects? That doesnt sound unreasonable.

 

I would think it'd be based somewhat around a guy like Jay Jackson. Not an elite prospect, but a pretty good one. Randy Wells might also be a guy to base the deal around if the Indians are in love with his start to the year.

 

You have to consider that if the Indians keep him and offer arbitration, he'd be worth a pair of first round picks to them. We'd have to come close to that kind of compensation to get them interested, I'd imagine.

 

I wouldn't give up Marshall or Jackson for DeRosa.

 

But again, what is the in between? I agree that Marshall or Jackson are too much for a rent a player, and Mitch Atkins is pretty much worthless. If wed left Kevin Hart in Iowa and let him have a few more starts, if he kept it up, he may have had more value. Id rather not give up Wells for a rental either.

[dew1679666265]

I can't imagine giving up Sean Marshall for a DeRo rental period. Seriously?

 

If we offer Seasn Marshall, were giving up too much. If we offer Kevin Hart or Mitch Atkins, its not enough. So wheres the in between? Hart or Atkins+ a few lower pitching prospects? That doesnt sound unreasonable.

 

I would think it'd be based somewhat around a guy like Jay Jackson. Not an elite prospect, but a pretty good one. Randy Wells might also be a guy to base the deal around if the Indians are in love with his start to the year.

 

You have to consider that if the Indians keep him and offer arbitration, he'd be worth a pair of first round picks to them. We'd have to come close to that kind of compensation to get them interested, I'd imagine.

 

I wouldn't give up Marshall or Jackson for DeRosa.

 

I wouldn't either. If I felt comfortable that DeRosa would be a Type A player, I'd be willing to give more, but Jackson or Marshall would be too much for me.

 

How much value would guys like Tony Thomas and Tyler Colvin have? Maybe if Wells puts together a couple more very good starts, we could try something around him and one (or both) of Thomas or Colvin? I'd be far more willing to do something like that - especially if DeRo is able to work his way up to Type A status.

 

That trade would give the Indians a young pitcher with some upside (Wells), a young middle IF (Thomas) and/or a young outfielder with a little upside (Colvin) to add some depth in attempting to fill left field long-term. We then get DeRosa for half a season and then either a sandwich pick or a pair of first rounders.

Edited June 23, 2009 by dew

[Little Slide Rooter]

I can't imagine giving up Sean Marshall for a DeRo rental period. Seriously?

 

If we offer Seasn Marshall, were giving up too much. If we offer Kevin Hart or Mitch Atkins, its not enough. So wheres the in between? Hart or Atkins+ a few lower pitching prospects? That doesnt sound unreasonable.

 

I would think it'd be based somewhat around a guy like Jay Jackson. Not an elite prospect, but a pretty good one. Randy Wells might also be a guy to base the deal around if the Indians are in love with his start to the year.

 

You have to consider that if the Indians keep him and offer arbitration, he'd be worth a pair of first round picks to them. We'd have to come close to that kind of compensation to get them interested, I'd imagine.

 

I wouldn't give up Marshall or Jackson for DeRosa.

 

I wouldn't either. If I felt comfortable that DeRosa would be a Type A player, I'd be willing to give more, but Jackson or Marshall would be too much for me.

 

How much value would guys like Tony Thomas and Tyler Colvin have? Maybe if Wells puts together a couple more very good starts, we could try something around him and one (or both) of Thomas or Colvin? I'd be far more willing to do something like that - especially if DeRo is able to work his way up to Type A status.

 

Colvin and TT are both decent chips, but Cleveland made it clear that they wany major league ready pitching. However, one of those guys might help us net Teahen of Felipe Lopez.

[dew1679666265]

Colvin and TT are both decent chips, but Cleveland made it clear that they wany major league ready pitching.

 

Something we don't have much of. That might make Wells a tad more attractive, but Marshall is too valuable and Kevin Hart has little to no value.

[SCCubbieFAN]

what if DeRo agreed to an extention for 2010 as part of any deal for him? would that change your minds about what you are willing to give up to get him back?

[dew1679666265]

what if DeRo agreed to an extention for 2010 as part of any deal for him? would that change your minds about what you are willing to give up to get him back?

 

The problem is he'll be 35 before next season and is likely to start declining. I'm not sure I'd want him for 2010 (unless he came on a cheap, one-year deal).

[Little Slide Rooter]

If it were a month ago, and Ramirez was 8 weeks from returning, maybe Id be inclined to trade Marshall for Dero, but as is, hes hopefully about 3 weeks from returning, so theres no point in giving up that much for him. Maybe id move a few smaller chips for Felipe Lopez at this point.

[Backtobanks]

If it were a month ago, and Ramirez was 8 weeks from returning, maybe Id be inclined to trade Marshall for Dero, but as is, hes hopefully about 3 weeks from returning, so theres no point in giving up that much for him. Maybe id move a few smaller chips for Felipe Lopez at this point.

 

As I've posted before, I think Hendry is perfectly willing to ride out Ramirez' injury with current personnel and use his trade chips after assessing what the Cubs need and analyzing the moves made by other teams. The Cubs haven't hit diddly in the last month and are only 2 1/2 games back. If the Cards and/or the Brewers make a big move (Holliday, Peavy, etc.) and start to pull away, Hendry would be forced to pull off a big deal.

[SCCubbieFAN]

If it were a month ago, and Ramirez was 8 weeks from returning, maybe Id be inclined to trade Marshall for Dero, but as is, hes hopefully about 3 weeks from returning, so theres no point in giving up that much for him. Maybe id move a few smaller chips for Felipe Lopez at this point.

 

As I've posted before, I think Hendry is perfectly willing to ride out Ramirez' injury with current personnel and use his trade chips after assessing what the Cubs need and analyzing the moves made by other teams. The Cubs haven't hit diddly in the last month and are only 2 1/2 games back. If the Cards and/or the Brewers make a big move (Holliday, Peavy, etc.) and start to pull away, Hendry would be forced to pull off a big deal.

 

Hendry's history has typically been more reactive instead of proactive, wouldn't you say??

[Vanilla Ice]

If it were a month ago, and Ramirez was 8 weeks from returning, maybe Id be inclined to trade Marshall for Dero, but as is, hes hopefully about 3 weeks from returning, so theres no point in giving up that much for him. Maybe id move a few smaller chips for Felipe Lopez at this point.

 

As I've posted before, I think Hendry is perfectly willing to ride out Ramirez' injury with current personnel and use his trade chips after assessing what the Cubs need and analyzing the moves made by other teams. The Cubs haven't hit diddly in the last month and are only 2 1/2 games back. If the Cards and/or the Brewers make a big move (Holliday, Peavy, etc.) and start to pull away, Hendry would be forced to pull off a big deal.

 

Hendry's history has typically been more reactive instead of proactive, wouldn't you say??

IIRC, the Harden trade went down the day after the Sabathia trade