How would you fix the offense?

[dew1679666265]

It would appear as though there are no plans to move Soriano out of leadoff

 

Alfonso Soriano-OF-Cubs Jun. 15 - 11:08 am et

 

Despite an ugly .296 on-base percentage, Alfonso Soriano will remain the Cubs' leadoff hitter.

 

"We've been through this many times," Cubs manager Lou Piniella sighed. "When we signed Alfonso, he was a leadoff hitter. We've won two divisions with him being a leadoff hitter. What else can I say? He's struggling. We just got to hope he gets hot." Soriano is 14-for-95 (.147) in his last 22 games and has 66 strikeouts on the season.

 

I'm fine with that. With the entire lineup struggling, I don't have a problem leaving him where he's most comfortable. Even if it's just a mental thing for him, it could help him out of his slump.

 

There are no other good candidates for more ABs at the moment (maybe DLee).

 

Leaving Soriano at leadoff wouldn't "help him come out of his slump" anymore than moving him to 6th would help him come out of his slump. If you want to leave him there because there's no better option, fine. But if/when he does come out of his slump, let's not pretend it was because of the comforts of leadoff. If that were true, then you could say he went into the slump because of the comforts of leadoff.

 

My main point is that there are no better options for the leadoff spot, even with how badly Soriano has struggled. As for the comfortable part, since there's no real value in moving him out of the leadoff spot, I don't see how making a change like that would make him any more likely to break out of his slump.

[Keener98]

I dont want Soriano moved from the leadoff spot, I just want him DL'd so he can stop limping all around the field and get healthy. Hes not helping the team at all right now on offense or defense, just put him on the DL for 2 weeks and let Hoff and Fox platoon out there. Theriot, Fontenot, Fuku, and Reed vs leftys, can all hold down the leadoff spot until he gets back.

[JonJayCutler]

Soriano is not going to break out of this slump until he goes back to taking pitches like he was earlier this year. He is swinging at everything right now, particularly sliders low and away. There is no reason for pitchers to throw him anything else right now. You've heard him say himself before that the key to his success is swinging at strikes and he hasn't been doing that for awhile now.

[jersey cubs fan]

I dont want Soriano moved from the leadoff spot, I just want him DL'd so he can stop limping all around the field and get healthy. Hes not helping the team at all right now on offense or defense, just put him on the DL for 2 weeks and let Hoff and Fox platoon out there. Theriot, Fontenot, Fuku, and Reed vs leftys, can all hold down the leadoff spot until he gets back.

 

What happened to that scar tissue that supposedly broke away that made him all better? I'd like to see them DL him, but I'm not convinced it's health that is making him struggle. He's looked gimpy throughout his time on the Cubs. Even when he is rolling he appears one misstep away from snapping those skinny legs.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I dont want Soriano moved from the leadoff spot, I just want him DL'd so he can stop limping all around the field and get healthy. Hes not helping the team at all right now on offense or defense, just put him on the DL for 2 weeks and let Hoff and Fox platoon out there. Theriot, Fontenot, Fuku, and Reed vs leftys, can all hold down the leadoff spot until he gets back.

 

What happened to that scar tissue that supposedly broke away that made him all better? I'd like to see them DL him, but I'm not convinced it's health that is making him struggle. He's looked gimpy throughout his time on the Cubs. Even when he is rolling he appears one misstep away from snapping those skinny legs.

 

Even if they dont DL him, he still could use a game off here and there. Yesterday would have been a good time with the off day today, and you know they wont sit him suring the Sox series.

[Keener98]

I dont want Soriano moved from the leadoff spot, I just want him DL'd so he can stop limping all around the field and get healthy. Hes not helping the team at all right now on offense or defense, just put him on the DL for 2 weeks and let Hoff and Fox platoon out there. Theriot, Fontenot, Fuku, and Reed vs leftys, can all hold down the leadoff spot until he gets back.

 

What happened to that scar tissue that supposedly broke away that made him all better? I'd like to see them DL him, but I'm not convinced it's health that is making him struggle. He's looked gimpy throughout his time on the Cubs. Even when he is rolling he appears one misstep away from snapping those skinny legs.

 

Yea I dont know what happened with that scar tissue, but I know there was a game early last week that he seemed to start really favoring it again. Hes not healthy, and I really think his knee is stopping him from generating any power. Hell he hasnt hit a HR since the game in Cincy, he just seems to be fouling off alot of pitches hed normally crush, and then missing the sliders low and away. Then again hes even been striking out on weak fastballs too, so I dont know. I just know this is the longest slump hes been in, and hes limping around, so common sense to me says just DL him and get him fully healthy. Noone is running away with this division in the next 15 days.

[hossdriver]

I dont want Soriano moved from the leadoff spot, I just want him DL'd so he can stop limping all around the field and get healthy. Hes not helping the team at all right now on offense or defense, just put him on the DL for 2 weeks and let Hoff and Fox platoon out there. Theriot, Fontenot, Fuku, and Reed vs leftys, can all hold down the leadoff spot until he gets back.

 

What happened to that scar tissue that supposedly broke away that made him all better? I'd like to see them DL him, but I'm not convinced it's health that is making him struggle. He's looked gimpy throughout his time on the Cubs. Even when he is rolling he appears one misstep away from snapping those skinny legs.

 

Yea I dont know what happened with that scar tissue, but I know there was a game early last week that he seemed to start really favoring it again. Hes not healthy, and I really think his knee is stopping him from generating any power. Hell he hasnt hit a HR since the game in Cincy, he just seems to be fouling off alot of pitches hed normally crush, and then missing the sliders low and away. Then again hes even been striking out on weak fastballs too, so I dont know. I just know this is the longest slump hes been in, and hes limping around, so common sense to me says just DL him and get him fully healthy. Noone is running away with this division in the next 15 days.

 

 

Yeah, Soriano's knee is hurting his offense and defense. He hobbles in the outfield (especially slowing up on the ball). Scary as it sounds, I think what has hurt Soriano most is laying off the first pitch.

 

I know, I don't like the leadoff hitter (or any hitter for that matter) swinging at the first pitch. However Soriano's best hitting counts are 0-0 and 0-1 (usually get-me-over fastballs) where he's hitting up around .400.

 

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

Incidentally, his last home run in Cincy, was off the very first pitch of the AB...

[fromthestretch]

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

It's not like he's a bad hitter on 0-1. His career line on 0-1 is .350/.365/.670 and that's in a decent sample of 575 plate appearances. It's when he gets to two strikes that he tends to suffer...like most hitters do.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

It's not like he's a bad hitter on 0-1. His career line on 0-1 is .350/.365/.670 and that's in a decent sample of 575 plate appearances. It's when he gets to two strikes that he tends to suffer...like most hitters do.

 

That's just at-bats that end on 0-1.

 

After an 0-1 count overall, he's .242 .271 .423.

League average this year .227 .272 .344

 

So he's more or less the same amount better than league average 0-1 as he is overall.

[hossdriver]

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

It's not like he's a bad hitter on 0-1. His career line on 0-1 is .350/.365/.670 and that's in a decent sample of 575 plate appearances. It's when he gets to two strikes that he tends to suffer...like most hitters do.

 

That's just at-bats that end on 0-1.

 

After an 0-1 count overall, he's .242 .271 .423.

League average this year .227 .272 .344

 

So he's more or less the same amount better than league average 0-1 as he is overall.

 

 

Right, meaning when he swings 0-0 or 0-1 and puts the ball in play, he absolutely rakes. He suffers afterward. I've noticed a little more patience in him. He's let A LOT of first pitch meatballs go lately, taking all the way...

[fromthestretch]

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

It's not like he's a bad hitter on 0-1. His career line on 0-1 is .350/.365/.670 and that's in a decent sample of 575 plate appearances. It's when he gets to two strikes that he tends to suffer...like most hitters do.

 

That's just at-bats that end on 0-1.

 

After an 0-1 count overall, he's .242 .271 .423.

League average this year .227 .272 .344

 

So he's more or less the same amount better than league average 0-1 as he is overall.

 

I understand that. I was simply addressing his point that Soriano is in bad shape if he takes the first pitch. The big issue for Soriano, like for many hitters, is hitting with two strikes.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I understand that. I was simply addressing his point that Soriano is in bad shape if he takes the first pitch. The big issue for Soriano, like for many hitters, is hitting with two strikes.

 

I was supporting your point.

[Soul]

Maybe Soto really is coming around and we'll have Lee & Soto in the middle for awhile.

 

I don't know how to fix this. We need ARam back. That's my big fix.

[fromthestretch]

I understand that. I was simply addressing his point that Soriano is in bad shape if he takes the first pitch. The big issue for Soriano, like for many hitters, is hitting with two strikes.

 

I was supporting your point.

 

I figured that out after I posted. Was too lazy to go back and edit.

[fromthestretch]

Maybe Soto really is coming around and we'll have Lee & Soto in the middle for awhile.

 

I don't know how to fix this. We need ARam back. That's my big fix.

 

Since May 1:

 

Soto:

.270/.359/.396

 

Lee:

.336/.427/.549

 

Bradley:

.262/.336/.411

 

Lee's been great the past month and a half. Soto and Bradley are improving, but both could still be a lot better. However, as these guys improve, Soriano and Fukudome are struggling big time.

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

 

Yeah, Soriano's knee is hurting his offense and defense. He hobbles in the outfield (especially slowing up on the ball). Scary as it sounds, I think what has hurt Soriano most is laying off the first pitch.

 

I know, I don't like the leadoff hitter (or any hitter for that matter) swinging at the first pitch. However Soriano's best hitting counts are 0-0 and 0-1 (usually get-me-over fastballs) where he's hitting up around .400.

 

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

Incidentally, his last home run in Cincy, was off the very first pitch of the AB...

 

 

hoss, you want to double check your numbers there. He's not hitting anywhere near .400 on 0-0 and 0-1.

 

Soriano            AB    R    H   2b   3b   HR  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP  P/PA   IsoD   RBI%
Pitch# 1           32    5   10    1    0    3    4    0    0  0.313  0.313  0.625  0.938  0.241  1.00  0.000  0.111
Pitch# 2           49    6   14    5    0    3    8    0    0  0.286  0.294  0.571  0.866  0.239  2.00  0.008  0.250
Pitch# 3           40    4    7    0    0    4    7    0   11  0.175  0.175  0.475  0.650  0.120  3.00  0.000  0.120
Pitch# 4           40    6    8    4    0    1    1    9   12  0.200  0.347  0.375  0.722  0.259  4.00  0.147  0.000
Pitch# 5           46    8    9    3    0    3    6    5   22  0.196  0.275  0.457  0.731  0.286  5.00  0.079  0.167
Pitch# 6           24    7    4    0    0    0    1    4   11  0.167  0.310  0.167  0.477  0.308  6.00  0.144  0.167
Pitch# 7            7    2    2    0    0    0    0    1    5  0.286  0.375  0.286  0.661  1.000  7.00  0.089  0.000
Pitch# 8            6    0    1    0    0    0    0    2    4  0.167  0.375  0.167  0.542  0.500  8.00  0.208  0.000
Pitch# 9            3    1    2    1    0    0    0    0    1  0.667  0.667  1.000  1.667  1.000  9.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 10           1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000 10.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 11           1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000 11.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 12           0    1    0    0    0    0    0    1    0  0.000  1.000  0.000  1.000  0.000 12.00  1.000  0.000

All Pitches       249   40   57   14    0   14   27   22   66  0.229  0.296  0.454  0.749  0.254  3.86  0.067  0.131

[fromthestretch]

 

 

Yeah, Soriano's knee is hurting his offense and defense. He hobbles in the outfield (especially slowing up on the ball). Scary as it sounds, I think what has hurt Soriano most is laying off the first pitch.

 

I know, I don't like the leadoff hitter (or any hitter for that matter) swinging at the first pitch. However Soriano's best hitting counts are 0-0 and 0-1 (usually get-me-over fastballs) where he's hitting up around .400.

 

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

Incidentally, his last home run in Cincy, was off the very first pitch of the AB...

 

 

hoss, you want to double check your numbers there. He's not hitting anywhere near .400 on 0-0 and 0-1.

 

Soriano            AB    R    H   2b   3b   HR  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP  P/PA   IsoD   RBI%
Pitch# 1           32    5   10    1    0    3    4    0    0  0.313  0.313  0.625  0.938  0.241  1.00  0.000  0.111
Pitch# 2           49    6   14    5    0    3    8    0    0  0.286  0.294  0.571  0.866  0.239  2.00  0.008  0.250
Pitch# 3           40    4    7    0    0    4    7    0   11  0.175  0.175  0.475  0.650  0.120  3.00  0.000  0.120
Pitch# 4           40    6    8    4    0    1    1    9   12  0.200  0.347  0.375  0.722  0.259  4.00  0.147  0.000
Pitch# 5           46    8    9    3    0    3    6    5   22  0.196  0.275  0.457  0.731  0.286  5.00  0.079  0.167
Pitch# 6           24    7    4    0    0    0    1    4   11  0.167  0.310  0.167  0.477  0.308  6.00  0.144  0.167
Pitch# 7            7    2    2    0    0    0    0    1    5  0.286  0.375  0.286  0.661  1.000  7.00  0.089  0.000
Pitch# 8            6    0    1    0    0    0    0    2    4  0.167  0.375  0.167  0.542  0.500  8.00  0.208  0.000
Pitch# 9            3    1    2    1    0    0    0    0    1  0.667  0.667  1.000  1.667  1.000  9.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 10           1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000 10.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 11           1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000 11.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 12           0    1    0    0    0    0    0    1    0  0.000  1.000  0.000  1.000  0.000 12.00  1.000  0.000

All Pitches       249   40   57   14    0   14   27   22   66  0.229  0.296  0.454  0.749  0.254  3.86  0.067  0.131

 

Fred, I think he's talking about career. Soriano is a career .399 hitter when putting the first pitch in play. He's at .384 on 1-0, .387 on 2-0, and .350 on 0-1.

[hossdriver]

 

 

Yeah, Soriano's knee is hurting his offense and defense. He hobbles in the outfield (especially slowing up on the ball). Scary as it sounds, I think what has hurt Soriano most is laying off the first pitch.

 

I know, I don't like the leadoff hitter (or any hitter for that matter) swinging at the first pitch. However Soriano's best hitting counts are 0-0 and 0-1 (usually get-me-over fastballs) where he's hitting up around .400.

 

The guy is a fastball hitter, plain and simple. If he watches strike one, he's behind in the count and will fall victim to more breaking balls...

 

Incidentally, his last home run in Cincy, was off the very first pitch of the AB...

 

 

hoss, you want to double check your numbers there. He's not hitting anywhere near .400 on 0-0 and 0-1.

 

Soriano            AB    R    H   2b   3b   HR  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP  P/PA   IsoD   RBI%
Pitch# 1           32    5   10    1    0    3    4    0    0  0.313  0.313  0.625  0.938  0.241  1.00  0.000  0.111
Pitch# 2           49    6   14    5    0    3    8    0    0  0.286  0.294  0.571  0.866  0.239  2.00  0.008  0.250
Pitch# 3           40    4    7    0    0    4    7    0   11  0.175  0.175  0.475  0.650  0.120  3.00  0.000  0.120
Pitch# 4           40    6    8    4    0    1    1    9   12  0.200  0.347  0.375  0.722  0.259  4.00  0.147  0.000
Pitch# 5           46    8    9    3    0    3    6    5   22  0.196  0.275  0.457  0.731  0.286  5.00  0.079  0.167
Pitch# 6           24    7    4    0    0    0    1    4   11  0.167  0.310  0.167  0.477  0.308  6.00  0.144  0.167
Pitch# 7            7    2    2    0    0    0    0    1    5  0.286  0.375  0.286  0.661  1.000  7.00  0.089  0.000
Pitch# 8            6    0    1    0    0    0    0    2    4  0.167  0.375  0.167  0.542  0.500  8.00  0.208  0.000
Pitch# 9            3    1    2    1    0    0    0    0    1  0.667  0.667  1.000  1.667  1.000  9.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 10           1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000 10.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 11           1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000 11.00  0.000  0.000
Pitch# 12           0    1    0    0    0    0    0    1    0  0.000  1.000  0.000  1.000  0.000 12.00  1.000  0.000

All Pitches       249   40   57   14    0   14   27   22   66  0.229  0.296  0.454  0.749  0.254  3.86  0.067  0.131

 

 

3yr splits have him at .429 and .373 respectively on 0-0 and 0-1 counts... I chatted about this on another board a few weeks back, and obviously his numbers for 2009 have taken a hit during the slump. They are in the low .300's now, but clearly his best hitting counts...

 

I have studied this at great length and shown that Soriano's career numbers fit him best at leadoff (however it may hurt the team), because he's terrible in counts other than 'traditional fastball' counts, and with runners on base. I agree he is not a prototypical leadoff hitter, but he probably serves the Cubs better there, especially when he's hot...

 

He has a higher OBP at leadoff and is not good in the clutch.

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

 

3yr splits have him at .429 and .373 respectively on 0-0 and 0-1 counts... I chatted about this on another board a few weeks back, and obviously his numbers for 2009 have taken a hit during the slump. They are in the low .300's now, but clearly his best hitting counts...

 

I have studied this at great length and shown that Soriano's career numbers fit him best at leadoff (however it may hurt the team), because he's terrible in counts other than 'traditional fastball' counts, and with runners on base. I agree he is not a prototypical leadoff hitter, but he probably serves the Cubs better there, especially when he's hot...

 

He has a higher OBP at leadoff and is not good in the clutch.

 

OK, I stand corrected.

[bhogg]

one word: fat chicks

[TruffleShuffle]

that's two words.

[witty alias]

I would sign Adam Dunn and his 900+ OPS and 35-40 HRs when I had a chance.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Well, I would start by getting Soriano out of the leadoff spot. AND YES, LOU, THAT MEANS FOR MORE THAN 2 GAMES. The guy says he likes hitting leadoff, and that he's more comfortable and a better hitter in that spot... but that's obviously total BS. If a .230 batting average and .300 OBP is what happens when he is happy and comfortable, then we are screwed. I don't ever wanna see Soriano hitting leadoff again, for any reason. Theriot should be the man, but honestly, I'd be happy with Fukudome, Bradley, Lee, Fontenot or anyone else not named Soriano leading off.

 

I think that would fix alot. There' s nothing else we could really do except switch a couple other guys in the lineup. I think at this point, we pretty much have to make due with the players that we have. We just have too many non-moveable contracts. Milton Bradley (who has never hit more than 22 homers in a season) isn't much of a 3 hitter. I also don't usually like seeing Lee in the 3 or 4 spot, but since he's been hitting lately, I'll let it slide. If I were Lou, my regular lineup would look like this:

 

1. Theriot

2. Fukudome

3. Ramirez

4. Bradley

5. Soriano

6. Lee

7. Soto

8. Fontenot

 

Maybe move Fontenot up if you wanted to split up the righties, but other than that, it's a solid lineup. I'm also not totally opposed to the Soriano at 2b idea, if Fontenot falls into another hopeless slump.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Cubbie Swagger

[DiamondMind]

I miss DeRosa. He's killing the baseball right now. .817 OPS overall and 1.2 in the last 7 days.

 

More importantly, he's posting a 935 OPS with runners on base, which is usually when this team goes limp offensively.

[17 Seconds]

I think that would fix alot.

 

not really. moving soriano from leadoff isn't going to make the other guys hit.