Braves aquire Nate McClouth for prospects.

[Backtobanks]

Kenny Williams is probably wondering why he didn't talk to the Pirates.

[Jake]

This makes the beatable Pirates more beatable. time for Jake to change his avatar

 

Done.

[Jake]

This seems like a pretty terrible deal for the Pirates. Golden opportunity too, because McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now.

 

Interesting contradiction.

[Jake]

so, does this mean McCutchen will be rockin the majors soon?

Starting this afternoon, prolly in CF. (Might be Morgan in CF, Cutch in LF)

[Jake]

McClouth is a bit overrated. Good hitter, below average fielder. A nice complimentary player for a contender, but no star. His value will probably never be as high as it is right now.

 

The only thing that bothers me is that he has several years until he's arb-eligable, so why trade him now when he is a building block if the Pirates ever improve. I know their farm system isn't there yet, but at some point, you need to let your players develop through good and bad and hopefully reap the benefits of it down the road. If I was a Pirates fan, I'd be worried that they'd finally get a bunch of superb prospects to develop, and the team trades a few pieces to the puzzle a year too early, and the Pirates stay in mediocrity forever.

 

Honestly when do you see the Pirates being at least a .500 team again? 2020? longer? They are so far away even after 16+ years of losing seasons.

 

Not saying I agree with this, but this is what management is thinking. The minors in the organziation are lacking, to the point that we can't win a championship. So, it's either buy like the Yankees, or restock. This trade is about restocking.

 

When will we win? Hopefully year after next.

 

I need to work. I'll try to post more later.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This seems like a pretty terrible deal for the Pirates. Golden opportunity too, because McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now.

 

Interesting contradiction.

 

How do you figure? They had a great chance to add talent to the system by taking advantage of McLouth's inflated reputation coming off last year, and they squandered it by not getting a very good deal, especially considering it's only June 4th.

[jersey cubs fan]

This seems like a pretty terrible deal for the Pirates. Golden opportunity too, because McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now.

 

Interesting contradiction.

 

How do you figure? They had a great chance to add talent to the system by taking advantage of McLouth's inflated reputation coming off last year, and they squandered it by not getting a very good deal, especially considering it's only June 4th.

 

Or maybe his reputation isn't as good as some people think?

[SouthSideRyan]

Not saying I agree with this, but this is what management is thinking. The minors in the organziation are lacking, to the point that we can't win a championship. So, it's either buy like the Yankees, or restock. This trade is about restocking.

 

But they didn't restock. Unless the A Ball guy becomes something, this is an awful trade. Gorkys Hernandez is another tools goof with no power and Morton is a 4th-5th starter.

[Faceman]

If you don't fire Hendry for the Miles, DeRosa, Wood deals, you have to now.

 

The Pirates are supposed to only give away players to the Cubs. Now Hendry's blown that too.

 

/obligatory

[cubweiser03]

I didnt pay this particular close attention to these set numbers of McClouths before today.

 

64SB

5 CS

 

Damn. That freaking crazy.

[Jake]

Quick lunchtime thought:

 

The three guys the Pirates got could go on to hall of fame careers and I still wouldn't like this trade. We basically threw this season away.

 

I don't get it.

[jersey cubs fan]

Quick lunchtime thought:

 

The three guys the Pirates got could go on to hall of fame careers and I still wouldn't like this trade. We basically threw this season away.

 

I don't get it.

 

That's a silly reason to not like it. What don't you get? The Pirates season was thrown away the minute it started. Seriously they weren't going to do anything. And McClouth wasn't the guy who was going to determine if they ever returned to contender status.

[SouthSideRyan]

Quick lunchtime thought:

 

The three guys the Pirates got could go on to hall of fame careers and I still wouldn't like this trade. We basically threw this season away.

 

I don't get it.

 

That's a silly reason to not like it. What don't you get? The Pirates season was thrown away the minute it started. Seriously they weren't going to do anything. And McClouth wasn't the guy who was going to determine if they ever returned to contender status.

 

You don't see how it's frustrating to be a fan of a team that hasn't finished above 500 in 16 years giving up on a season 1/3 of the way in while 4 games under? This isn't the pre-'03 Trib Cubs hoping to be competitive within the division frustration. This is a Pirates franchise that hasn't given fans a reason to care for the last 16 years, telling the fans that they don't care, and aren't going to try for ANOTHER season.

 

That and the package they received was really shitty.

[jersey cubs fan]

Quick lunchtime thought:

 

The three guys the Pirates got could go on to hall of fame careers and I still wouldn't like this trade. We basically threw this season away.

 

I don't get it.

 

That's a silly reason to not like it. What don't you get? The Pirates season was thrown away the minute it started. Seriously they weren't going to do anything. And McClouth wasn't the guy who was going to determine if they ever returned to contender status.

 

You don't see how it's frustrating to be a fan of a team that hasn't finished above 500 in 16 years giving up on a season 1/3 of the way in while 4 games under? This isn't the pre-'03 Trib Cubs hoping to be competitive within the division frustration. This is a Pirates franchise that hasn't given fans a reason to care for the last 16 years, telling the fans that they don't care, and aren't going to try for ANOTHER season.

 

That and the package they received was really [expletive].

 

He didn't say he was frustrated, he said he didn't get it. He also said he wouldn't like it even if these guys had HOF careers because it's throwing away this season. Like it or not, this season was already thrown away. I don't understand how you can not "get it". It's simple. The team sucks and they are still years away from contending. If you are going to argue about the value they got for the guy, go right ahead. I get that.

[mul21]

I guess my question in Jake's shoes would be why now? Why not wait until closer to the deadline when more teams are more desperate and you may be able to drive the price up a bit.

 

The one blurb I did see on this trade was that the AAA pitcher from the Braves is like 7-2 with a 2.xx ERA. Is he not that good or does he just not project as much more than, say, Kevin Hart maybe?

[davearm2]

This seems like a pretty terrible deal for the Pirates. Golden opportunity too, because McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now.

 

Interesting contradiction.

 

How do you figure? They had a great chance to add talent to the system by taking advantage of McLouth's inflated reputation coming off last year, and they squandered it by not getting a very good deal, especially considering it's only June 4th.

The contradiction is, the conclusion proves the premise faulty (McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now).

 

McLouth's reputation/trade value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here, thus disproving the "inflated reputation" theory.

[jersey cubs fan]

This seems like a pretty terrible deal for the Pirates. Golden opportunity too, because McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now.

 

Interesting contradiction.

 

How do you figure? They had a great chance to add talent to the system by taking advantage of McLouth's inflated reputation coming off last year, and they squandered it by not getting a very good deal, especially considering it's only June 4th.

The contradiction is, the conclusion proves the premise faulty (McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now).

 

McLouth's reputation/trade value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here, thus disproving the "inflated reputation" theory.

 

I don't know that his value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here. My guess is it is, but it's quite possible they settled for less than what they could have gotten in another deal, especially if they waited until the deadline.

[davearm2]

This seems like a pretty terrible deal for the Pirates. Golden opportunity too, because McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now.

 

Interesting contradiction.

 

How do you figure? They had a great chance to add talent to the system by taking advantage of McLouth's inflated reputation coming off last year, and they squandered it by not getting a very good deal, especially considering it's only June 4th.

The contradiction is, the conclusion proves the premise faulty (McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now).

 

McLouth's reputation/trade value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here, thus disproving the "inflated reputation" theory.

 

I don't know that his value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here. My guess is it is, but it's quite possible they settled for less than what they could have gotten in another deal, especially if they waited until the deadline.

Well there are three possible explanations here:

 

a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball;

b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover;

c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player.

 

C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly.

[jersey cubs fan]

a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball;

b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover;

c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player.

 

C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly.

 

There's the possibility that a cash strapped Pirates team didn't want to keep paying his $2m salary. Also, that he lost a game of chicken with other GMs that wanted to wait to make their best offers. Or, that he is a poor judge of value and that while others may have offered more, he perceived this deal to be best. This isn't as simple as selling an asset for dollars, where it is very clear that $50 equals $50. Everybody evaluates the value of these assets differently. If he's got a hard-on for a player that became available from Atlanta, his bias for that player could easiliy skew his perception of the value of the deal.

[Mugged By Fluffy]

Hooray! Another menace out of the division. "Cubs don't have to get better, the other teams just have to get worse". :-))

 

So who's left now? Braun, Carlos Lee and Pujols?

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't know that his value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here. My guess is it is, but it's quite possible they settled for less than what they could have gotten in another deal, especially if they waited until the deadline.

Well there are three possible explanations here:

 

a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball;

b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover;

c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player.

 

C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly.

 

D) The Pirates front office in spite of being Creech/Littlefield-less is still full of horrible talent evaluators, and thinks a bum like Gorkys Hernandez is actually a prospect.

 

Under your definitions every trade made ever is an even swap value-wise.

 

I said it already, if that's McLouth's value on the trade market then you don't trade him.

[Soul]

I always thought McLouth was pretty good. Admittedly I haven't looked at his numbers though.

 

I was surprised when they mentioned the trade last night.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The contradiction is, the conclusion proves the premise faulty (McLouth's reputation far exceeds his actual value right now).

 

McLouth's reputation/trade value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here, thus disproving the "inflated reputation" theory.

 

I don't know that his value is clearly reflected in the return the Pirates received here. My guess is it is, but it's quite possible they settled for less than what they could have gotten in another deal, especially if they waited until the deadline.

Well there are three possible explanations here:

 

a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball;

b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover;

c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player.

 

C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly.

 

Trading McLouth now limits the pool of players they could get for him significantly, there are many more teams actively seeking an outfielder in mid to late July than there are at the beginning of June. Not to mention that those additional teams would drive the price up for him. In a sense you can say they got decent value for him, it is after all two Top 10 prospects in Atlanta's system plus a ML ready starter. Problem is that Gorkys Hernandez is a particularly terrible Top 10 prospect, and the other arm isn't stellar either. That's why waiting until another team entered the fray would've been a smarter move. That deal isn't likely to go away by waiting, and if it does, who cares? It was awful to begin with.

[17 Seconds]

Well there are three possible explanations here:

 

a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball;

b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover;

c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player.

 

C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly.

 

I like how you leave out the most obvious choice, which is that the Pirates FO are poor at their jobs and don't know how to correctly evaluate talent

[davearm2]

Well there are three possible explanations here:

 

a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball;

b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover;

c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player.

 

C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly.

 

I like how you leave out the most obvious choice, which is that the Pirates FO are poor at their jobs and don't know how to correctly evaluate talent

The fact that you're here posting on a messageboard rather than working in a MLB FO just boggles the mind, since obviously you're much better at evaluating talent, and would do a better job than the current Pirates GM.