Samardzija Called up, Vizcaino Designated for Assignment

[Little Slide Rooter]

Neal Cotts isn't that bad guys. We just don't use him properly. He's a useful guy to have in the pen as a long men because he's got stuff better suited for righties, but can get lefties out decently and he can go two innings if need be. He's not dominant enough against lefties to be a LOOGY which is what we try to do with him. We keep putting him in situations where he's going to fail, and when he fails we bitch at him.

Maybe he is misused, but if he was going to be all that good to begin with, he might not suck so horribly in those situations.

 

He is misused. Lou never brings him into those situations when you need walk walk multiple batters in a row, and thats his specialty. If you bring him in when your trying to get guys out, thats just foolish.

[wekse]

damnit, i wanted to see him pitch this weekend.

[nolanwood]

I don't understand this move at all. Our bullpen has sucked, so we get rid of the guy who hasn't given up a run and who we owe 3.5 million? Obviously he's pitching above his head with that strand rate, but still...

 

Also, why are we bringing up the Shark to pitch out of the pen when he was supposed to be working on his secondary pitches and getting stretched out in IA? That's a stupid gamble given the potential for injury in this rotation.

[biittner77]

Calling up Samardzija gives the Cubs roster flexibility. If they need to they can send him back down. This move only makes sense if they need the flexibility because a pitcher is sore but not bad enough to warrant a DL stint. Another possibility is that they may want to bring up another infielder at some point and this way they can send down Samardzija, go with 11 pitchers and bring up another RH bat (Fox) or SS (Spears?, Blanco?)

[jersey cubs fan]

Calling up Samardzija gives the Cubs roster flexibility.

 

But bringing him up now reduces that flexibility. The only flexibility it provides is "storing" him in Iowa, which is where he already was.

[SouthSideRyan]

Calling up Samardzija gives the Cubs roster flexibility. If they need to they can send him back down. This move only makes sense if they need the flexibility because a pitcher is sore but not bad enough to warrant a DL stint. Another possibility is that they may want to bring up another infielder at some point and this way they can send down Samardzija, go with 11 pitchers and bring up another RH bat (Fox) or SS (Spears?, Blanco?)

 

Having Vizcaino on the team and being willing to release him whenever your manager threw a hissy fit over 2 weeks of baseball gave the team the same flexibility.

[TruffleShuffle]

this is really stupid.

[Little Slide Rooter]

9:41am: Vizcaino has been designated for assignment, according to ESPN's Bruce Levine. Levine says Cubs GM Jim Hendry "tried to be creative with other teams, including the Washington Nationals, and tried to save some money before having to release Vizcaino."

 

What the hel team is going to give up anything for the guy when all they have to do is wait a few days and get him for league minumum? Good job Hendry. Good Job. Maybe the next move will be bringing up Jake Fox and DFAng Reed Johnson for no good reason when theres clealrly a player with no use to the team on the roster.

[Guest]

this is really stupid.

It's not as stupid if the Cubs think that Samardzija will never be a competent starter. If they think he's better than what they currently have in the pen and his fate is in the pen I don't think it's dumb.

 

Now, if they still think he has the potential to be a starter it's pretty dumb, but not as dumb as bringing in guys like Visciano and Gregg in in the first place. At least they aren't compounding mistakes by sticking with them.

[biittner77]

Calling up Samardzija gives the Cubs roster flexibility. If they need to they can send him back down. This move only makes sense if they need the flexibility because a pitcher is sore but not bad enough to warrant a DL stint. Another possibility is that they may want to bring up another infielder at some point and this way they can send down Samardzija, go with 11 pitchers and bring up another RH bat (Fox) or SS (Spears?, Blanco?)

 

Having Vizcaino on the team and being willing to release him whenever your manager threw a hissy fit over 2 weeks of baseball gave the team the same flexibility.

 

Very true.

[YearofDaCubs]

Hendry is such an idiot. He has no problems signing Miles or releasing players making 2-4 mil per year yet he couldn't keep one of our best players last year in DeRosa? I will cherish the day that Hendry leaves this organization.

[SouthSideRyan]

this is really stupid.

It's not as stupid if the Cubs think that Samardzija will never be a competent starter. If they think he's better than what they currently have in the pen and his fate is in the pen I don't think it's dumb.

 

Now, if they still think he has the potential to be a starter it's pretty dumb, but not as dumb as bringing in guys like Visciano and Gregg in in the first place. At least they aren't compounding mistakes by sticking with them.

 

It's really stupid if the Cubs changed their minds on whether Samardzija can be a starter based on 2 starts at Iowa.

[biittner77]

What the hel team is going to give up anything for the guy when all they have to do is wait a few days and get him for league minumum? Good job Hendry. Good Job. Maybe the next move will be bringing up Jake Fox and DFAng Reed Johnson for no good reason when theres clealrly a player with no use to the team on the roster.

 

If he was DFA then the Cubs have 10 days to trade him or for him to accept a minor league assignment. A team might not want to wait and see if someone else claims him first. The Nationals would have first dibs and given the way things are going might claim him.

 

More likely, Hendry already has a deal in the works or he's tried and has given up.

[Guest]

this is really stupid.

It's not as stupid if the Cubs think that Samardzija will never be a competent starter. If they think he's better than what they currently have in the pen and his fate is in the pen I don't think it's dumb.

 

Now, if they still think he has the potential to be a starter it's pretty dumb, but not as dumb as bringing in guys like Visciano and Gregg in in the first place. At least they aren't compounding mistakes by sticking with them.

 

It's really stupid if the Cubs changed their minds on whether Samardzija can be a starter based on 2 starts at Iowa.

I don't think they would base it on two starts at Iowa but his entire time as a starter. I'm not really trying to defend this move at all, it's just that this is the only way that this move makes any sense whatsoever.

 

IIRC, most scouts think his "stuff" is that of a relief pitcher.

[apete6]

Hendry is such an idiot. He has no problems signing Miles or releasing players making 2-4 mil per year yet he couldn't keep one of our best players last year in DeRosa? I will cherish the day that Hendry leaves this organization.

 

I don't quite hate Hendry with the passion you do, but this past offseason has been brutal for him so far.

 

Gregg ($4.2 mill) over Wood (likely would have taken arbitration and gotten 1/$8 or $10)

Miles (2/$5) over DeRosa (1/$5 and likely Type A status)

Bradley (3/$30) over Hoffpauir (more likely Fox as a bench guy from $500K)

 

Getting nothing for Rich Hill after he could have help get us Roberts last year.

Getting Heilman (who has been good) for Pie and Cedeno (who could have gotten us much more last year).

Essentially releasing a very average Jason Marquis just to save $5 million (after taking Vizcaino's release into account)

Signing a useless Joey Gathright.

 

Overall, we could have Wood, DeRosa, Hoffpauir, Marquis, and Fox on the team instead of Gregg, Miles, Bradley, Cotts (because Marshall would be in the pen), and Gathright for about the same amount of cash. (about $23 million for the good guys and about $19 for the bad guys--$21.5 if you count next year's guarantee for Miles).

[Warren Brusstar]

this is really stupid.

 

Meh. The games in April are just as important as the games in September.

 

My guess is that St. Louis will ultimately be the Cubs biggest challenge in the Central, so strengthening our bullpen prior to a series against our most likely challenger isn't "really stupid."

[Sever82]

Not to bring Peavy Talk or trade talk into this but the obvious move would have been to send down guzman or patton but since you can't do either, they let go of the older vet. I think the Cubs still intend to trade Guzman away in some sort of deal and still feels he has value. His numbers dont show it until this point but Guzman still has value in a bigger trade as a piece to include. Patton to me is someone the Cubs want to keep because they feel he has upside and looking at him throw, i feel he's a good piece to keep. Eventhough Vizcaino hadn't given up an earned run, doesn't mean he was a good pitcher, look at his past two seasons out of the pen. I'd rather keep the kid who throw 95 plus than the old vet who's seeing his velocity decline. But like i said, i still think the cubs intend on making some sort of trade for either Peavy or another big time player. I would've liked the cubs to send down Cotts and bring up Stevens.

[SouthSideRyan]

this is really stupid.

It's not as stupid if the Cubs think that Samardzija will never be a competent starter. If they think he's better than what they currently have in the pen and his fate is in the pen I don't think it's dumb.

 

Now, if they still think he has the potential to be a starter it's pretty dumb, but not as dumb as bringing in guys like Visciano and Gregg in in the first place. At least they aren't compounding mistakes by sticking with them.

 

It's really stupid if the Cubs changed their minds on whether Samardzija can be a starter based on 2 starts at Iowa.

I don't think they would base it on two starts at Iowa but his entire time as a starter. I'm not really trying to defend this move at all, it's just that this is the only way that this move makes any sense whatsoever.

 

IIRC, most scouts think his "stuff" is that of a relief pitcher.

 

Yet they were okay with him as a starter as of the beginning of the season.

 

Unless there are clubhouse/personal problems with Vizcaino, this is just Lou pouting.

[dew1679666265]

Not to bring Peavy Talk or trade talk into this but the obvious move would have been to send down guzman or patton but since you can't do either, they let go of the older vet. I think the Cubs still intend to trade Guzman away in some sort of deal and still feels he has value. His numbers dont show it until this point but Guzman still has value in a bigger trade as a piece to include. Patton to me is someone the Cubs want to keep because they feel he has upside and looking at him throw, i feel he's a good piece to keep. Eventhough Vizcaino hadn't given up an earned run, doesn't mean he was a good pitcher, look at his past two seasons out of the pen. I'd rather keep the kid who throw 95 plus than the old vet who's seeing his velocity decline. But like i said, i still think the cubs intend on making some sort of trade for either Peavy or another big time player. I would've liked the cubs to send down Cotts and bring up Stevens.

 

Cutting Vizcaino isn't necessarily the bad part of it all. Calling up Samardzija and putting him in the bullpen and the timing of it all are what I have problems with.

 

Vizcaino was probably going to be his usual average self after a while, so losing him isn't terrible. It's better than cutting Angel or Patton. But, why make the move now? Wait til Vizcaino starts to move toward what he really is and maybe if he can stay good for a couple more weeks, some team would be willing to trade for him.

 

Also, Samardzija should eventually be a starter. Over the course of the season he may be a better reliever than Vizcaino, but there are certainly going to be better relief options than Vizcaino available in trade fairly soon and calling up Shark now only serves to slow his development. Leave him in AAA and let him start. If you have to call someone up, let it be someone with less upside - like Mitch Atkins or Jose Ascanio.

[Guest]

Not to bring Peavy Talk or trade talk into this but the obvious move would have been to send down guzman or patton but since you can't do either, they let go of the older vet. I think the Cubs still intend to trade Guzman away in some sort of deal and still feels he has value. His numbers dont show it until this point but Guzman still has value in a bigger trade as a piece to include. Patton to me is someone the Cubs want to keep because they feel he has upside and looking at him throw, i feel he's a good piece to keep. Eventhough Vizcaino hadn't given up an earned run, doesn't mean he was a good pitcher, look at his past two seasons out of the pen. I'd rather keep the kid who throw 95 plus than the old vet who's seeing his velocity decline. But like i said, i still think the cubs intend on making some sort of trade for either Peavy or another big time player. I would've liked the cubs to send down Cotts and bring up Stevens.

 

Cutting Vizcaino isn't necessarily the bad part of it all. Calling up Samardzija and putting him in the bullpen and the timing of it all are what I have problems with.

 

Vizcaino was probably going to be his usual average self after a while, so losing him isn't terrible. It's better than cutting Angel or Patton. But, why make the move now? Wait til Vizcaino starts to move toward what he really is and maybe if he can stay good for a couple more weeks, some team would be willing to trade for him.

 

Also, Samardzija should eventually be a starter. Over the course of the season he may be a better reliever than Vizcaino, but there are certainly going to be better relief options than Vizcaino available in trade fairly soon and calling up Shark now only serves to slow his development. Leave him in AAA and let him start. If you have to call someone up, let it be someone with less upside - like Mitch Atkins or Jose Ascanio.

I don't think this slows his development as a starter, I think it signals the end of his days as a starter with the Cubs. Lou's already said he'd use him as a "short man".

 

I think they see him as a closer in the future.

[biittner77]

I don't think this slows his development as a starter, I think it signals the end of his days as a starter with the Cubs. Lou's already said he'd use him as a "short man".

 

I think they see him as a closer in the future.

 

It slows the development of his secondary pitches which most everyone agrees need work. I don't believe it signals the end of his career as a starter candidate as a cub. They could easily stretch him out during ST into a starter. It very likely ends his starting chances this year.

 

Maybe they're trying to send a message to Gregg. Though once again the timing is strange. I didn't see the end of last night's game. Who gave up the last 2 runs?

[CubColtPacer]

I don't think this slows his development as a starter, I think it signals the end of his days as a starter with the Cubs. Lou's already said he'd use him as a "short man".

 

I think they see him as a closer in the future.

 

It slows the development of his secondary pitches which most everyone agrees need work. I don't believe it signals the end of his career as a starter candidate as a cub. They could easily stretch him out during ST into a starter. It very likely ends his starting chances this year.

 

Maybe they're trying to send a message to Gregg. Though once again the timing is strange. I didn't see the end of last night's game. Who gave up the last 2 runs?

 

Guzman and Gregg were the ones to give up the last two runs, but this roster move was known before yesterday's game started.

[dew1679666265]

I don't think this slows his development as a starter, I think it signals the end of his days as a starter with the Cubs. Lou's already said he'd use him as a "short man".

 

I think they see him as a closer in the future.

 

The question is, though, why did they start Samardzija in the rotation at AAA this season? Did they change their mind in two starts and decide he now is not starter material?

 

It would seem if they saw his future as a closer at the start of the year that they would have put him there in the first place at Iowa. And if they didn't see him as a closer at the start of the year, but now do, what made them change their mind?

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think this slows his development as a starter, I think it signals the end of his days as a starter with the Cubs.

 

It absolutely slows his development as a starter. With as little experience pitching as he has, innings were always going to be an issue. Spending half of 2008 and most of 2009 as a reliever will severely limit his ability to both prepare his arm to handle longer innings, and work on the other pitches necessary to face a lineup 3 times in a game. It may not permanently eliminate any chance he has of starting, but it does slow the development.

 

That said, I have always had my doubts he'd be anything more than a reliever.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think the Cubs still intend to trade Guzman away in some sort of deal and still feels he has value. His numbers dont show it until this point but Guzman still has value in a bigger trade as a piece to include. Patton to me is someone the Cubs want to keep because they feel he has upside and looking at him throw, i feel he's a good piece to keep

 

I'm really confused how somebody can look at Patton and Gooz and determine that Patton has the better upside and is a smarter keep.