Cub prospects in the news

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Can someone explain the meaning of the role talk?

[Guest]

Can someone explain the meaning of the role talk?

 

 

Someone else may have exact definitions but its something like:

 

8 - superstar

7 - all-star

6 - first division starter

5 - major league regular

 

 

Similar for pitchers with aces as 8, #1 starters as 7 etc.

[Warpticon]

It's a touch frustrating that I've seen Parks use a lot of words talking about Edwards at a couple different points, and I'm still not sure how good he thinks Edwards is. I know that he thinks Edwards' frame won't hold up, but aside from that I can't tell how much of that "impact reliever ceiling" skepticism is his frame, or his frame + other factors.

 

The other thing that bothers me about prospect talk is the whole TOR thing. It's that thing everybody talks about but nobody actually defines, I guess because everybody always assumes everybody else knows what they mean, even if they don't. What does it mean when you say a guy doesn't project to be a top of the rotation pitcher? Is that a projection of how well he'll pitch, how many innings he can pitch, or what? Because, based on the framing, the definition seems very inconsistent.

[davell]

I'm pretty sure all scouts/prospect writers use what BA puts in their handbook in describing starters. A 4/5 has command of 2 major league pitches, average velo, consistent breaking ball, and a decent change. A 3 has one plus pitch, two average pitches, average command and makeup. A 2 has 2 plus pitches, average 3rd pitch, command, and makeup. The definition of a 1 is 2 plus pitches, average 3rd pitch, plus plus command, and plus makeup.

[rawaction]

I'm pretty sure all scouts/prospect writers use what BA puts in their handbook in describing starters. A 4/5 has command of 2 major league pitches, average velo, consistent breaking ball, and a decent change. A 3 has one plus pitch, two average pitches, average command and makeup. A 2 has 2 plus pitches, average 3rd pitch, command, and makeup. The definition of a 1 is 2 plus pitches, average 3rd pitch, plus plus command, and plus makeup.

 

I think you can have #1 upside without command. Guys like Kerry Wood, Verlander, Scherzer who have the electric fastball and killer breaking ball though they can't always harness it were elite prospects without the plus command. They don't hit their ceiling until that command improves though.

[davell]

As great as Wood's stuff was, I don't think we can look back and say he was an ace. Certainly capable of dominating a game, no doubt, but never with any consistency. His best BB/9 rate was 3.27 in a season with at least 20 starts and it was the only time he was under 4. Scherzer has been 2.88 or under the last 3 seasons. Verlander had a 4 year stretch no higher than 2.85, 3of which were 2.36 or better. He did climb to 3.09 this year, for what it's worth.

[Guest]

As great as Wood's stuff was, I don't think we can look back and say he was an ace. Certainly capable of dominating a game, no doubt, but never with any consistency. His best BB/9 rate was 3.27 in a season with at least 20 starts and it was the only time he was under 4. Scherzer has been 2.88 or under the last 3 seasons. Verlander had a 4 year stretch no higher than 2.85, 3of which were 2.36 or better. He did climb to 3.09 this year, for what it's worth.

 

 

I think his point was that as a prospect, his ceiling was as an ace. I agree he didn't reach it but he was given that ceiling even though he didn't have the command.

[davell]

Yeah, I misread it. That was certainly true.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Jason Cole ‏@LoneStarDugout 2m

Big arm strength from #Cubs RHP prospect Juan Carlos Paniagua at instructs today. Working 92-96, T97. Flashing plus life.

[KingCubsFan]

It's a touch frustrating that I've seen Parks use a lot of words talking about Edwards at a couple different points, and I'm still not sure how good he thinks Edwards is. I know that he thinks Edwards' frame won't hold up, but aside from that I can't tell how much of that "impact reliever ceiling" skepticism is his frame, or his frame + other factors.

I think it's mostly frame, but maybe some other factors too. Later in the chat, he says Marcus Stroman has starter stuff and sees him as a starter despite the fact he's 5'9". He's never been as definite with Edwards.

[Cubswin11]

Jason Cole ‏@LoneStarDugout 2m

Big arm strength from #Cubs RHP prospect Juan Carlos Paniagua at instructs today. Working 92-96, T97. Flashing plus life.

That's encouraging. Where does he start this year? KC or Daytona? Or do they hold him at instructs until the MWL starts?

[Guest]

Jason Cole ‏@LoneStarDugout 2m

Big arm strength from #Cubs RHP prospect Juan Carlos Paniagua at instructs today. Working 92-96, T97. Flashing plus life.

That's encouraging. Where does he start this year? KC or Daytona? Or do they hold him at instructs until the MWL starts?

 

Uh isn't KC the MWL?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Jason Cole ‏@LoneStarDugout 2m

Big arm strength from #Cubs RHP prospect Juan Carlos Paniagua at instructs today. Working 92-96, T97. Flashing plus life.

That's encouraging. Where does he start this year? KC or Daytona? Or do they hold him at instructs until the MWL starts?

 

Uh isn't KC the MWL?

 

I assume he meant NWL

[Cubswin11]

Jason Cole ‏@LoneStarDugout 2m

Big arm strength from #Cubs RHP prospect Juan Carlos Paniagua at instructs today. Working 92-96, T97. Flashing plus life.

That's encouraging. Where does he start this year? KC or Daytona? Or do they hold him at instructs until the MWL starts?

 

Uh isn't KC the MWL?

Yeah, NWL (Boise). My bad

[Guest]

I should've realized that. Rough morning.

[Guest]

I think Paniagua could start at Daytona with a good fall and March but I think KC is the floor for him. He's a real wild card given his advanced age, flashy stuff combined with horrible results in 2013.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If I had to guess, I'd say Kane County. He's a pitcher, so getting in healthy innings with personal improvement is more important than the level of competition.

[KingCubsFan]

It's fun to dream about a bullpen of Paniagua, Vizcaino, Black, Strop and Rivera.

[Guest]

http://networkedblogs.com/Q8448

 

Blog entry comparing this prospect class to 2002.

 

And LOL at him referencing Kyle.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

http://networkedblogs.com/Q8448

 

Blog entry comparing this prospect class to 2002.

 

And LOL at him referencing Kyle.

 

I'm adding "Internet's Most Important Cubs Fan" to my list of titles.

 

He's basically right: We got a decent run from the early 2000s group and we'll get at least that from this group, more than likely, although the tougher division may have something to say about it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It's fun to dream about a bullpen of Paniagua, Vizcaino, Black, Strop and Rivera.

 

And Rosscup and Edwards and Vizcaino.

[Guest]

http://networkedblogs.com/Q8448

 

Blog entry comparing this prospect class to 2002.

 

And LOL at him referencing Kyle.

 

I'm adding "Internet's Most Important Cubs Fan" to my list of titles.

 

He's basically right: We got a decent run from the early 2000s group and we'll get at least that from this group, more than likely, although the tougher division may have something to say about it.

 

Yeah. The sample sizes aren't and won't be enough to be really scientific, but I always felt like evaluating prospects (and therefore prospect lists) is getting better because more and more people know what to look for. Less falling in love with tools when there are red flags with numbers and stuff like that.

[EhDubya]

It's fun to dream about a bullpen of Paniagua, Vizcaino, Black, Strop and Rivera.

 

And Rosscup and Edwards and Vizcaino.

 

Do we have 2 Vizcainos or something? Because I'd be happy for the 1 that I know of to work out.

[davell]

http://m.cubs.mlb.com/news/2013/10/15/62992920/top-prospects-eloy-jimenez-gleybar-torres-growing-learning-with-cubs

[scarey]

http://networkedblogs.com/Q8448

 

Blog entry comparing this prospect class to 2002.

 

And LOL at him referencing Kyle.

 

 

Wow, I remember liking Nic Jackson a lot, but didn't realize he was recognized as a top 100 guy.