You're All Racist

[Tyrant]

Or, that's what Gordon Wittenmeyer thinks.

 

What a stupid, stupid article.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't see the problem with the article. He didn't call out all Cubs fans-what he said that it was more likely to happen in Wrigley than at many other ballparks. And then he found several players who were willing to back up that assertion, along with at least one of the players (Cameron) saying that it is a generally known fact around the league.

 

If all the players believe that it is worse in Chicago than at other parks, then they are probably right. They are the ones standing in the OF in every park so they would have a better idea than anybody else. And most players are probably predisposed to like Cubs fans for their passion, so there is no bias angle here.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, sounds about right to me. Neither the article nor the players seem to be saying that all Cubs fans or racist. There's just a very vocal minority that have no problem going to that well when they don't like a player of color.

[Tyrant]

I don't see the problem with the article. He didn't call out all Cubs fans-what he said that it was more likely to happen in Wrigley than at many other ballparks. And then he found several players who were willing to back up that assertion, along with at least one of the players (Cameron) saying that it is a generally known fact around the league.

 

Just because it's a "generally known fact" around the league doesn't mean it's true. It's a generally known fact that Cardinals fans are the best in baseball. I think many here would disagree with that.

 

My problem comes from the fact he uses Jacque Jones and LaTroy Hawkins as examples of racist behavior. They weren't booed because they were black; they were booed because they failed a lot.

 

Also, the most booed Cub I've ever heard is Todd Hundley.

 

I'm sure there are racists who go to Cubs games, but I really am skeptical that it's a higher ratio than any other ballpark.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see the problem with the article. He didn't call out all Cubs fans-what he said that it was more likely to happen in Wrigley than at many other ballparks. And then he found several players who were willing to back up that assertion, along with at least one of the players (Cameron) saying that it is a generally known fact around the league.

 

If all the players believe that it is worse in Chicago than at other parks, then they are probably right. They are the ones standing in the OF in every park so they would have a better idea than anybody else. And most players are probably predisposed to like Cubs fans for their passion, so there is no bias angle here.

 

That's a weird theory.

 

Wrigley also has a very unique amount of fan placement in the OF. Shea had nothing like it. Yankee stadium had a very limited amount. Many stadiums have bullpens between the OF and field, or other significant space.

 

I think this is a rather weak assumption.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't see the problem with the article. He didn't call out all Cubs fans-what he said that it was more likely to happen in Wrigley than at many other ballparks. And then he found several players who were willing to back up that assertion, along with at least one of the players (Cameron) saying that it is a generally known fact around the league.

 

Just because it's a "generally known fact" around the league doesn't mean it's true. It's a generally known fact that Cardinals fans are the best in baseball. I think many here would disagree with that.

 

My problem comes from the fact he uses Jacque Jones and LaTroy Hawkins as examples of racist behavior. They weren't booed because they were black; they were booed because they failed a lot.

 

Also, the most booed Cub I've ever heard is Todd Hundley.

 

I'm sure there are racists who go to Cubs games, but I really am skeptical that it's a higher ratio than any other ballpark.

 

He didn't say booed though...he said racial taunts. Even if those were because they failed quite a bit, racial taunts are still completely unnecessary.

 

And that certainly wouldn't apply to all the opposing players who come in and hear supposedly racial things about them.

 

And I really doubt that it's a generally accepted fact among the players that the Cardinals have the best fans. That's where the difference lies.

 

What incentive do these players have to lie? I guess you could say the 06 Cubs had a little bit of an incentive to try to gain sympathy (although that is still a very shaky explanation) but what about the others? Players hate to go on record speaking something negative about groups of fans because they understand it's a business. The fact that they were willing to for this story says a lot about what they think.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see the problem with the article. He didn't call out all Cubs fans-what he said that it was more likely to happen in Wrigley than at many other ballparks. And then he found several players who were willing to back up that assertion, along with at least one of the players (Cameron) saying that it is a generally known fact around the league.

 

Just because it's a "generally known fact" around the league doesn't mean it's true. It's a generally known fact that Cardinals fans are the best in baseball. I think many here would disagree with that.

 

My problem comes from the fact he uses Jacque Jones and LaTroy Hawkins as examples of racist behavior. They weren't booed because they were black; they were booed because they failed a lot.

 

Also, the most booed Cub I've ever heard is Todd Hundley.

 

I'm sure there are racists who go to Cubs games, but I really am skeptical that it's a higher ratio than any other ballpark.

 

I think Jacque tried to pretend he was booed mostly because he was black. He heard all the boos, and in that there was some racist taunts, no doubt, and then he decided all the boos were racially motivated. It was ridiculous, but there is no doubt there was some racial issue.

 

Likewise, Dusty Baker was foolishly worshipped when the Cubs first won, then universally hated as the team crumbled. He decided to pretend fans hated his blackness more than his incompetence, because there was just no way any not bigoted scumbag could have a problem with Dusty Baker.

[Old Style]

It seems like all the weak minded crappy players are the ones claiming racist taunts at Wrigley.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't think the artcles or the players say they were taunted because they were black...just that when they were taunted, many of those attacks came in the forms of racist ones because they were back.

[cubsdivine]

Has anyone ever witnessed a racial taunt at Wrigley? I would have to think that the person who shouted it would be dealt with pretty rapidly either by security or by the fans.

[forbez18]

I don't know about the article and it's integrity or why he decided that now is a good time to write it, but to say he is completely wrong or right is impossible.

 

There are hate crimes that go on all over the world and the United States. I don't believe any of us are ignorant enough to say that Chicago is the holy or the grail when it comes to racist individuals. I do not know how a city would be divided from the North to the South on the amount of racist individuals. We do not hear that type of talk coming from the Chicago White Sox, so I do tend to believe that there are some key passionate INDIVIDUAl Cubs fans that give the rest of us a bad reputation. I also believe that sometimes perception leads the reality. If everyone believes that the Cardinalls fans are best people will be more inherant to believe it if one wins a trivia game.

 

So yes it is possible that there are some racist individuals and that the ballpark influences a lot of close interaction with the players that can lead to perception that the Cubs fans are all racist.

[Outshined_One]

Has anyone ever witnessed a racial taunt at Wrigley? I would have to think that the person who shouted it would be dealt with pretty rapidly either by security or by the fans.

 

Welcome aboard!

[mjohnson71]

I've never heard racist stuff at Wrigley directed towards players: but we all know things were said to Jim Edmonds while he played with the Cardinals.

 

Plus I'm white and my girlfriend is black and some things have been said to us at Wrigley. But it's also happened at Soldier Field, on the EL and in the line at McDonalds.

[Sammy Sofa]

Honestly, is anyone really surprised to find race and racism being a sticking point with Chicago sports fans? The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America. That's going to fuel a lot of ignorance.

[Guest]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

[XZero771679666304]

Honestly, is anyone really surprised to find race and racism being a sticking point with Chicago sports fans? The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America. That's going to fuel a lot of ignorance.

 

 

Yeah, the racial dynamics in Chicago are nowhere near as developed as in places like NYC or even Los Angeles. That's not to say things in those cities are peachy, but Chicago is very compartmentalized.

[XZero771679666304]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

 

Among the really big boys (NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, etc.) which is worse?

[Sever82]

Its pretty ignorant to act as if racism doesn't exist at the park. I heard Mully and Hanley talk about this in the morning and both are morons. Both of them made the argument that it was in the past and that somehow because cubs ticket prices went up, the racism was gone. They were basically saying the bleachers are full of a different demographic (one that has money) so that demographic isn't racist. Then they had like 4 or 5 callers saying they hadn't heard any racist rants and because they hadn't had a caller who said there were racist rants, they assumed the story was bull. I mean give me a break, i've been to so many cubs games and i'll say in about 30-40% of them i've heard some racist comment being said to a player. I'll agree that maybe jacque exagerrated about the incidents but i bet they did occur.

 

I'm a die hard cubs fans but i acknowledge that there are a lot of racists that are cubs fans and i've definitely seen quite a number of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Soriano has heard some racist comments in that outfield since he's been a cub. Bottom line is there are racist cubs fans that sit in the bleachers and other parts of the stadium but its sad to say, it just part of this city. Its something that wont change overnight but will change overtime. A Clear example of how racism is alive is to check Cubs boards, maybe not this board but i've posted in other cubs boards and heard some racist stuff.

 

One perfect example of how alive and well Racism is in Wrigleyville is to he how Fukudome was treated last year. From the Tshirts, to the comments, cubs fans were just ignorant in how they portrayed this guy. I mean that one Racist TShirt and yes it was racist, the one that said Horry Cow or something like that. I remember wacthing a segment on the news about the shirt being sold about Fukudome and some Cubs fans had the nerve to say that the shirts weren't racist but instead were praising fukudome's culture and were honorin him.

[Guest]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

 

Among the really big boys (NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, etc.) which is worse?

I'm not sure what major means, but let's just go with cities with professional sports franchises. Just off the top of my head

 

Atlanta

New Orleans

Houston

Memphis

Boston

Philly

Dallas

Detroit

Cincinnati

Columbus

Jacksonville

Miami

 

That doesn't even include places like Baton Rouge, Lousiville, Grand Rapids, and many other major metropolitan areas, But the really sad fact is that most anywhere you could throw a dart at that has a population greater than 100,000 will be terribly segregated if there are a mix of races.

Edited April 15, 2009 by CubinNY

[Guest]

Its pretty ignorant to act as if racism doesn't exist at the park. I heard Mully and Hanley talk about this in the morning and both are morons. Both of them made the argument that it was in the past and that somehow because cubs ticket prices went up, the racism was gone. They were basically saying the bleachers are full of a different demographic (one that has money) so that demographic isn't racist. Then they had like 4 or 5 callers saying they hadn't heard any racist rants and because they hadn't had a caller who said there were racist rants, they assumed the story was bull. I mean give me a break, i've been to so many cubs games and i'll say in about 30-40% of them i've heard some racist comment being said to a player. I'll agree that maybe jacque exagerrated about the incidents but i bet they did occur.

 

I'm a die hard cubs fans but i acknowledge that there are a lot of racists that are cubs fans and i've definitely seen quite a number of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Soriano has heard some racist comments in that outfield since he's been a cub. Bottom line is there are racist cubs fans that sit in the bleachers and other parts of the stadium but its sad to say, it just part of this city. Its something that wont change overnight but will change overtime. A Clear example of how racism is alive is to check Cubs boards, maybe not this board but i've posted in other cubs boards and heard some racist stuff.

 

One perfect example of how alive and well Racism is in Wrigleyville is to he how Fukudome was treated last year. From the Tshirts, to the comments, cubs fans were just ignorant in how they portrayed this guy. I mean that one Racist TShirt and yes it was racist, the one that said Horry Cow or something like that. I remember wacthing a segment on the news about the shirt being sold about Fukudome and some Cubs fans had the nerve to say that the shirts weren't racist but instead were praising fukudome's culture and were honorin him.

I agree. Anywhere you get a large mix of people together you are going to find people like that.

[XZero771679666304]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

 

Among the really big boys (NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, etc.) which is worse?

I'm not sure what major means, but let's just go with cities with professional sports franchises. Just off the top of my head

 

Atlanta

New Orleans

Houston

Memphis

Boston

Philly

Dallas

Detroit

Cincinnati

Columbus

Jacksonville

Miami

 

That doesn't even include places like Baton Rouge, Lousiville, Grand Rapids, and many other major metropolitan areas, But the really sad fact is that most anywhere you could through a dart at that has a population greater than 100,000 will be terribly segregated if there are a mix of races.

 

I was referring more to the really big cities. Places like Memphis and Columbus don't really qualify. And I would argue that Houston is more segregated, along with a couple others on your list. How much time have you spent in Chicago?

 

You expect it to a degree in most places, but not so much in cities with populations way up in the millions.

 

At least not so much clear segregation and overt racism.

[1908]

I don't see how population size matters much. Are you arguing that Chicago has a higher percentage of racists relative to its population than the other cities CubinNY listed? It's not like Wrigley holds more people than the average MLB stadium.

[OleMissCub]

As far as self-segregation goes, Boston is really bad from what I've heard from some people who have lived there.

[treebird]

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/dec/26/local/chi-segregation-26-dec26

 

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/archive/multidata/2008/12/26/graphic/mainphoto/44244740.jpg

[Sever82]

Percentage wise, no way the city of chicago has the most racist no way. I would imagine that city would be in the south. Chicago is a very diverse city, I mean there is segregation but i dont think its more divided than any other city. I dont know how this argument went from cubs to chicago because thats just ridiculous. I hate to admit it but i feel White Sox fans are a more diverse group than cub fans. I'm Latino and live in Wrigleyville and i have to admit that i see a larger percentage of white people at cubs game than at Sox games. Just my opinion.