Adam Dunn to the Nationals per XM 175...

[E.J.]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

[Backtobanks]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

[Bull]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

[17 Seconds]

o

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

 

That's not what we're talking about in the context of this conversation though. We're talking about whether or not it's a good idea to pay them that much.

 

Barry Zito is "worth" 18.5 million.

[Backtobanks]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

 

So Soriano is worth $18 million, Miles is worth $5 million over 2 years, and Marquis is worth $10 million.

[The Other 15]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

 

So Soriano is worth $18 million, Miles is worth $5 million over 2 years, and Marquis is worth $10 million.

Yes. Welcome to baseball salaries since you've obviously been locked in a cave for a while. Torri Hunter is worth $17.5 mil, Figgins is worth $6, Sarge JR. is worth $33 over the next 3 years, Kennedy is worth $4, Suppan is worth $10 mil, Tejada is worth $13, Lohse is worth $40 over the next 4 years, Byrnes is worth $11, Pierre is worth $10, we can go on and on, and on, and on.

[Outshined_One]

Yes. Welcome to baseball salaries since you've obviously been locked in a cave for a while. Torri Hunter is worth $17.5 mil, Figgins is worth $6, Sarge JR. is worth $33 over the next 3 years, Kennedy is worth $4, Suppan is worth $10 mil, Tejada is worth $13, Lohse is worth $40 over the next 4 years, Byrnes is worth $11, Pierre is worth $10, we can go on and on, and on, and on.

 

Mike Hampton was clearly worth the $121m!

[sneakypower]

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

sure, in a full season he can be. but i didn't even say that at all. everybody's completely ignoring the marketing side, but that's a different story altogether.

 

you're railing on the fangraphs way of player valuation and the open market way of player evaluation. got any better ideas? gut feel, hunches? it's hard keeping up with your fanaticism.

[17 Seconds]

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

sure, in a full season he can be. but i didn't even say that at all. everybody's completely ignoring the marketing side, but that's a different story altogether.

 

you're railing on the fangraphs way of player valuation and the open market way of player evaluation. got any better ideas? gut feel, hunches? it's hard keeping up with your fanaticism.

 

Sorry if I think it's ridiculous to say paying 15 million dollars for Willie Harris or 10 million dollars for 81 games of an .865 OPS are good deals. We probably could have gotten Harris for like 12 million and that clearly would have been a steal.

Edited February 14, 2009 by 17 Seconds

[17 Seconds]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

 

So Soriano is worth $18 million, Miles is worth $5 million over 2 years, and Marquis is worth $10 million.

Yes. Welcome to baseball salaries since you've obviously been locked in a cave for a while. Torri Hunter is worth $17.5 mil, Figgins is worth $6, Sarge JR. is worth $33 over the next 3 years, Kennedy is worth $4, Suppan is worth $10 mil, Tejada is worth $13, Lohse is worth $40 over the next 4 years, Byrnes is worth $11, Pierre is worth $10, we can go on and on, and on, and on.

 

You're just taking it too literally.... especially in the context of the discussion.

 

Put it this way..... is it worth it to give Barry Zito 18.5 million next year?

[sneakypower]

Sorry if I think it's ridiculous to say paying 15 million dollars for Willie Harris or 10 million dollars for 81 games of an .865 OPS are good deals. We probably could have gotten Harris for like 12 million and that clearly would have been a steal.

i know you're being sarcastic, but there's still like eight simple concepts here you're clearly not grasping

[17 Seconds]

Sorry if I think it's ridiculous to say paying 15 million dollars for Willie Harris or 10 million dollars for 81 games of an .865 OPS are good deals. We probably could have gotten Harris for like 12 million and that clearly would have been a steal.

i know you're being sarcastic, but there's still like eight simple concepts here you're clearly not grasping

 

Like what? I fully understand that the literal meaning of a player being "worth" a certain amount of money... which is what he makes. That's not what the conversation is about. We were debating whether or not it's worth it to give Bradley 30 million dollars. I don't know what the problem is here.

 

My point is that the fangraph stat is flawed, or at least the way people use it is flawed. People use it to defend contract...which is what happened when the guy said 81 games of an .865 OPS of Bradley would be worth 10 million dollars. That's not right. You're lying if you say you'd pay 20 million dollars for a season of an .865 OPS corner outfielder... and that's what we're discussing...whether or not a deal is a good one. It had Willie Harris as being worth 15 million dollars last year. I don't know how that formula got that and I don't have a better formula, but I do know that giving Willie Harris 15 million dollars for one year would be stupid.

 

If we had given Willie Harris 1/15 this offseason and somebody defended it by saying "fangraphs had him worth exactly that much last season, so it's not a bad deal", would you have been okay with that?

[TruffleShuffle]

If we had given Willie Harris 1/15 this offseason and somebody defended it by saying "fangraphs had him worth exactly that much last season, so it's not a bad deal", would you have been okay with that?

 

he was worth $5M in the previous years combined. of course nobody is going to give willie harris $15M this offseason because he's very unlikely to repeat his performance last year (which i'm pretty sure wasn't worth $14.6M, but whatever).

[sneakypower]

you give money for expected performance, not past. Harris, due to circumstances outside of his control, will very likely not repeat his contributions in fielding from last year. and he had a career year with the bat too, so you'd be making a bad gamble that he'd repeat it. but i don't think it's ridiculous to say his contributions on the field were of significant value last year.

 

you can use this information to make a good projection, using regression and three years of data. but if players had arbitration which paid them after the season in relation to their on-field performance (on a FA payscale), fangraphs' salary value would provide the most accuracy of widely available statistics.

[17 Seconds]

You guys are missing the point. I'm not talking about whether or not Harris would repeat that defensive performacne. What I'm saying it that he was not worth 14.6 million last year. It would be a bad move giving him 14.6 million even if you were guaranteed his 2008 performance.

 

Likewise, it would be a bad move to pay 20 million for a year of an .865 OPS from a corner outfielder. Do you not agree? That is my point. He was saying "well 3/30 for Milton Bradley is a good deal because he is worth 10 million a year for 81 games of an .865 OPS". That's not right.

 

Would you be satisfied and consider it a good deal is Bradley plays 81 games this year and has an .865 OPS? Of course not.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

 

So Soriano is worth $18 million, Miles is worth $5 million over 2 years, and Marquis is worth $10 million.

Yes. Welcome to baseball salaries since you've obviously been locked in a cave for a while. Torri Hunter is worth $17.5 mil, Figgins is worth $6, Sarge JR. is worth $33 over the next 3 years, Kennedy is worth $4, Suppan is worth $10 mil, Tejada is worth $13, Lohse is worth $40 over the next 4 years, Byrnes is worth $11, Pierre is worth $10, we can go on and on, and on, and on.

 

There's a difference between market value and worth.

[sneakypower]

then next time say from the start that you believe fielding is a meaningless facet of a player's game and save us all some time Edited February 15, 2009 by sneakypower

[17 Seconds]

Who was that reply supposed to be to? For some reason you replied to your own post and I don't see anybody saying anything close to what you said about defense being meaningless

[The Other 15]

 

In what world is a sub .900 OPS corner outfielder worth 20 million for a full season?

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players_l/20080402/6154.jpg?x=65&y=85&xc=1&yc=1&wc=164&hc=215&q=100&sig=LCwAE1TFB2scz.nmPVAI3w--

 

You think Soriano is worth 18 million a year?

 

I don't think you'll find many people here who believe Soriano is worth $18 million a year, especially as he gets older.

 

IMHO, nobody is worth $18 million.

 

obviously, nobody should be. but if someone will pay it its "worth" it. that's the point.

 

So Soriano is worth $18 million, Miles is worth $5 million over 2 years, and Marquis is worth $10 million.

Yes. Welcome to baseball salaries since you've obviously been locked in a cave for a while. Torri Hunter is worth $17.5 mil, Figgins is worth $6, Sarge JR. is worth $33 over the next 3 years, Kennedy is worth $4, Suppan is worth $10 mil, Tejada is worth $13, Lohse is worth $40 over the next 4 years, Byrnes is worth $11, Pierre is worth $10, we can go on and on, and on, and on.

 

There's a difference between market value and worth.

That's obvious Crusader, but irrelevant in the real word where market value rules. What did you pay for a hot dog when you watched the Caravan kill Rice last fall? Market value, right?

[SouthSideRyan]

If it's a necessity, market value rules. If it's something wholly unnecessary like Aaron Miles or a hot dog, and the market value is greater than the products worth then you don't pay market value. You look elsewhere.

[badnews]

These defensive statistics suck. They said in 2008 Coco Crisp was history's best fielder and this year he somehow just became average. I AM DUBIOUS

[Bull]

These defensive statistics suck. They said in 2008 Coco Crisp was history's best fielder and this year he somehow just became average. I AM DUBIOUS

 

At least you're not Dubois