Re: Cubs interested in Orlando Hudson???

[BigbadB]

Cubs would look like a MASH unit if they added Hudson. Yikes.

[javy knows my name]

I'm gonna reserve judgment on this until I hear what ChuckCubs has to say

[17 Seconds]

I'm gonna reserve judgment on this until I hear what ChuckCubs has to say

 

something about hudson having a sweet little swing

 

i love chuckcubs

[inari]

He's got a fat bat and a sweet lil swing. Look for at least 9 ding dongs!

[Tracer Bullet]

On Bruce Miles's blog for the Daily Herald (Link), someone asks about the Cubs interest in Hudson. This was Bruce's response.

 

All indications I've gotten from the Cubs are that they'll be quiet until spring training. They want to play Fontenot, and they signed Miles. I don't see where Hudson fits.

 

I've been told today the Cubs have no interest in Hudson. Oh, and feel free to check out the blog and contribute your own selves. :D

 

It's possible that Fontenot and Miles will get a lot of reps at SS this spring? Yikes.

 

And care to elaborate on your comment that you won't really miss any of the guys other than Wood and DeRosa? You mean from a personal standpoint (there were jerks to the media or something) or you just didn't seem them contributing to the team anyway? I'll miss several of the guys in the sense that I wanted to see them succeed in a Cub uniform. And looking at the flipside (the guys brought in), how many am I really happy to have on board? Well, there's Bradley, who I'm excited, but nervous, about. Then there's...well...um...

[TruffleShuffle]

It's possible that Fontenot and Miles will get a lot of reps at SS this spring? Yikes.

 

miles played 27 games there last year. he's not good but he's serviceable. fontenot probably isn't even serviceable but i suppose if it's spring training it can't hurt to have him play there in case he's needed in a pinch.

[mdwilla]

If Hudson came cheap enough I would have no problem letting Fontento/Theriot split time at short and letting Miles have a reduced role.

[17 Seconds]

If Hudson came cheap enough I would have no problem letting Fontento/Theriot split time at short and letting Miles have a reduced role.

 

Fontenot getting the bulk of playing time at short sounds like a really bad idea

[dew1679666265]

If Hudson came cheap enough I would have no problem letting Fontento/Theriot split time at short and letting Miles have a reduced role.

 

If we were to sign Hudson (which we won't, but should) I'd much rather see him start at SS and platoon Fontenot/Theriot at 2B.

[Derwood]

If Hudson came cheap enough I would have no problem letting Fontento/Theriot split time at short and letting Miles have a reduced role.

 

If we were to sign Hudson (which we won't, but should) I'd much rather see him start at SS and platoon Fontenot/Theriot at 2B.

 

Hudson hasn't played an out at SS in his ML career

[dew1679666265]

If Hudson came cheap enough I would have no problem letting Fontento/Theriot split time at short and letting Miles have a reduced role.

 

If we were to sign Hudson (which we won't, but should) I'd much rather see him start at SS and platoon Fontenot/Theriot at 2B.

 

Hudson hasn't played an out at SS in his ML career

 

If he's got great range at second, he'd be worth a shot. "Much rather" was probably too strong, though. We know Fontenot doesn't have the best of range, so I'd like to see Hudson try it. If this ever happened.

[cubsfan26]

I'd much rather see him start at SS and platoon Fontenot/Theriot at 2B.

 

 

It's not realistic, what team would make Theriot a platoon player after the year he had? Especially part of a platoon that won't get many AB's? Theriot had the 7th best OBP in the NL, 2nd highest OBP/BA among SS. He was even 8th OPS in the NL and 10th in the MLB for SS. Now he probably won't be as good next year, but he should still be pretty good. So there's no way he's gonna lose his everyday spot.

[17 Seconds]

I'd much rather see him start at SS and platoon Fontenot/Theriot at 2B.

 

 

It's not realistic, what team would make Theriot a platoon player after the year he had? Especially part of a platoon that won't get many AB's? Theriot had the 7th best OBP in the NL, 2nd highest OBP/BA among SS. He was even 8th OPS in the NL and 10th in the MLB for SS. Now he probably won't be as good next year, but he should still be pretty good. So there's no way he's gonna lose his everyday spot.

 

You're leaving out his awful defense.

 

And despite the pretty batting average and OBP, a .745 OPS from a shortstop with really bad defense and baserunning is far from special.

 

I want an actual shortstop who can defend. Also I'm not convinced that Theriot can suddenl hit RHP when he never could throughout his professional career.

[cubsfan26]

You're leaving out his awful defense.

 

And despite the pretty batting average and OBP, a .745 OPS from a shortstop with really bad defense and baserunning is far from special

 

 

Well I think awful was a strong word, I don't think he's awful. Is he good no, and yes subpar there at times, but I wouldn't say awful. Plus the baserunning isn't his fault IMO, his SB/CS rate was due to Lou running him so much early in the year. There's a reason why he was a good base stealer in 06 and 07 and not one last year. I was never trying to say Theriot is great. I'm just saying in the major leagues players don't lose everyday jobs after hitting 307 with a 387 OBP in 580 AB's, no matter what their OPS is(especially midlde infielders). Alot of major league teams value more then just a players power, even though thats how us fans often rate a player. So it's not realistic for a major league hitter to hit that well and not have a everyday spot the next year. Sure they might move him to another postion, but he's still playing everyday. I'm just being realistic and there's no chance and never was any chance Theriot would lose his starting job. It's just not realistic in real major league baseball, with how things work.

[17 Seconds]

You're leaving out his awful defense.

 

And despite the pretty batting average and OBP, a .745 OPS from a shortstop with really bad defense and baserunning is far from special

 

 

Well I think awful was a strong word, I don't think he's awful. Is he good no, and yes subpar there at times, but I wouldn't say awful. Plus the baserunning isn't his fault IMO, his SB/CS rate was due to Lou running him so much early in the year. There's a reason why he was a good base stealer in 06 and 07 and not one last year. I was never trying to say Theriot is great. I'm just saying in the major leagues players don't lose everyday jobs after hitting 307 with a 387 OBP in 580 AB's, no matter what their OPS is(especially midlde infielders). Alot of major league teams value more then just a players power, even though thats often us fans rate a player. So it's not realistic for a major league hitter to hit that well and not have a everyday spot the next year. Sure they might move him to another postion, but he's still playing everyday.

 

If he's not awful, he's really bad. Saying he was "subpar there at times" is really generous. He's bad.

 

As for the baserunning, I'm not just talking about CS. I'm talking about baserunning in general. He is a poor baserunner. That's not really a huge issue, just another detail on his game.

 

There's a reason why he was a good base stealer in 06 and 07 and not one last year.

 

Theriot wasn't a great base stealer throughout his minor league career either. I don't think he's as bad as he was last year and I don't think he's as good as he was the year before. He's probably average.

 

Either way, I don't think one good-but-not-great season offensivelt gurantees you a full time spot the following season, especially when you're a poor defender playing an important defensive position.

 

All that said, I'm fine going with him at short to start the season, considering there aren't many attractive options out there.

[cubsfan26]

Either way, I don't think one good-but-not-great season offensivelt gurantees you a full time spot the following season

 

 

It does because major league teams value what Theriot did higher then fans do. Us fans rate players on OPS and a bunch of other stats and compare them to other players. The Cubs knew from day one that Theriot has no power, and they are happy with him if he hits for average and gets on base at a high rate. Very few major league teams have more then 5-6 hitters who hit for power, and honestly alot GM's(more old school ones) like having a few hitters who don't hit for power in their line-up to mix things up. As long as Theriot is hitting hitting 290 plus and gets on base at a 350-360 plus rate, he will have a everyday job in the major leagues for some team, even if they have to move him to 2b. Thats why guys like Luis Castillo and David Eckstein hit towards the top of the order on World Series winning teams from 03-06. I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it. But you can be a SS/2b hit for average and get on base with no power and still be a everyday player year after year.

[17 Seconds]

Either way, I don't think one good-but-not-great season offensivelt gurantees you a full time spot the following season

 

 

It does because major league teams value what Theriot did higher then fans do. Us fans rate players on OPS and a bunch of other stats and compare them to other players. The Cubs knew from day one that Theriot has no power, and they are happy with him if he hits for average and gets on base at a high rate. Very few major league teams have more then 5-6 hitters who hit for power, and honestly alot GM's(more old school ones) like having a few hitters who don't hit for power in their line-up to mix things up. As long as Theriot is hitting hitting 290 plus and gets on base at a 350-360 plus rate, he will have a everyday job in the major leagues for some team, even if they have to move him to 2b. Thats why guys like Luis Castillo and David Eckstein hit towards the top of the order on World Series winning teams from 03-06. I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it. But you can be a SS/2b hit for average and get on base with no power and still be a everyday player year after year.

 

Once again you're leaving out the most important factor, which is defense. I've already said he was fine offensively, despite the lack of extra base hits (and that doesn't just mean HRs by the way). I don't really see how you can say GMs don't use stats like OPS and it's just for fans. That's kind of silly.

 

But again, I'm mostly talking about defense. You keep failing to mention that. GMs and managers highly value defense, as they should. If Theriot lost his job, it would be because of his poor defense.

 

Also, we're not debating what we thin will happen. We're debating what we want to happen. I think we all understand that Theriot will be the starting shotstop next season. I don't see anybody debating that.

[cubsfan26]

I don't really see how you can say GMs don't use stats like OPS and it's just for fans. That's kind of silly.

 

I never said that, I said they don't use it as the be all end all that us fans use it as. If a guys OPS is below 750 we usually call that player bad or supbar, depending on the postion. Most GM's don't believe every player has to hit for power, and are happy with them if they hit for average and get on base. Otherwise explain why guys like David Eckstein, Luis Castillo, and many many others have started for major league teams and made alot of money over the years.

 

But again, I'm mostly talking about defense. You keep failing to mention that. GMs and managers highly value defense, as they should. If Theriot lost his job, it would be because of his poor defense.

 

Thats why I mentioned that Theriot might have to be moved to 2b at some point. His defense as a 2b would most likely be average at worse, and probably pretty decent. But that still doesn't change the fact that as long as he hits for average and gets on base. He will have a everyday job in the major leagues on some team. As for Theriot at SS next year, the Cubs seem ok with his defense. It's never been a problem or we haven't heard many behind the scene stuff about the Cubs wanting to move him to 2b.

[17 Seconds]

I don't really see how you can say GMs don't use stats like OPS and it's just for fans. That's kind of silly.

 

I never said that, I said they don't use it as the be all end all that us fans use it as. If a guys OPS is below 750 we usually call that player bad or supbar, depending on the postion. Most GM's don't believe every player has to hit for power, and are happy with them if they hit for average and get on base. Otherwise explain why guys like David Eckstein, Luis Castillo, and many many others have started for major league teams and made alot of money over the years.

 

But again, I'm mostly talking about defense. You keep failing to mention that. GMs and managers highly value defense, as they should. If Theriot lost his job, it would be because of his poor defense.

 

Thats why I mentioned that Theriot might have to be moved to 2b at some point. His defense as a 2b would most likely be average at worse, and probably pretty decent. But that still doesn't change the fact that as long as he hits for average and gets on base. He will have a everyday job in the major leagues on some team. As for Theriot at SS next year, the Cubs seem ok with his defense. It's never been a problem or we haven't heard many behind the scene stuff about the Cubs wanting to move him to 2b.

 

Like I said, I agree that he'll be at short. We were never questioning where he'll be, just what we'd like to do. My point was that a very bad defender at shortstop never has a secure spot at that position unless he rakes. Theriot is a nice hitter, but it's highly arguable whether or not his projected offense makes up for his poor defense.

[Derwood]

Frankly, I can't explain guys like David Eckstein and Aaron Miles getting starting jobs in the majors.

[Cubswin11]

It's sad that we could now sign Hudson to 1 year deal for what we are paying Miles for two years, and Hudson will have better numbers in that 1 year than Miles will have in his 2 seasons here combined. :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

I think we should still sign Hudson for a 6-8 mil. deal, he gives us a great #1/2 hitter, GG defense and a great clubhouse presence. Fontenot will still get ab's as Hudson does have health issues and it pushes Miles from getting 2-3 starts a week to 1 at max when everyone is healthy. Now that the Nats aren't signing him who are his suitors? Dodgers? Back to the D'Backs? ATL and move Johnson to LF? STL would be a great fit but they won't pay the money.

[17 Seconds]

Don't forget Hudson would also cost us a first round pick. That alone makes it not worth it IMO. I'm not convinced Hudson is even that good. He's been garbage outside of BOB the last 3 seasons. I don't think he's much of an upgrade over Fontenot.

[Backtobanks]

It's sad that we could now sign Hudson to 1 year deal for what we are paying Miles for two years, and Hudson will have better numbers in that 1 year than Miles will have in his 2 seasons here combined. :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

I think we should still sign Hudson for a 6-8 mil. deal, he gives us a great #1/2 hitter, GG defense and a great clubhouse presence. Fontenot will still get ab's as Hudson does have health issues and it pushes Miles from getting 2-3 starts a week to 1 at max when everyone is healthy. Now that the Nats aren't signing him who are his suitors? Dodgers? Back to the D'Backs? ATL and move Johnson to LF? STL would be a great fit but they won't pay the money.

 

People complain about paying Bradley because of health concerns, but let's sign Hudson (who has health concerns). :-k

[Bruce Miles]

It's sad that we could now sign Hudson to 1 year deal for what we are paying Miles for two years, and Hudson will have better numbers in that 1 year than Miles will have in his 2 seasons here combined. :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

I think we should still sign Hudson for a 6-8 mil. deal, he gives us a great #1/2 hitter, GG defense and a great clubhouse presence. Fontenot will still get ab's as Hudson does have health issues and it pushes Miles from getting 2-3 starts a week to 1 at max when everyone is healthy. Now that the Nats aren't signing him who are his suitors? Dodgers? Back to the D'Backs? ATL and move Johnson to LF? STL would be a great fit but they won't pay the money.

 

People complain about paying Bradley because of health concerns, but let's sign Hudson (who has health concerns). :-k

 

No need to worry either way. The Cubs have never been interested in signing Hudson.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Not to derail this thread much, but Bruce, are the Cubs done, or are they still looking to add another infielder?