Wigginton and Orioles reach 2 year deal

[dew1679666265]

Wigginton had to take alot less money then he was asking for a few months ago(wanted 5-7m per year). I doubt Wigginton would have signed with the Cubs anyways. I'm sure the Orioles promised 400 plus AB's in either LH, DH and 1b. The Cubs couldn't promise him that many AB's with there the way it is. How Wigginton defense at 2b anyways? I heard he's a horrible defender at 3rd. I'm not really sure about his outfield defense though.

 

If they hadn't signed Miles, they most certainly could have offered Wiggington that many at bats. Between platooning with Fontenot at 2nd, spelling Lee, Ramirez, Soriano and Bradley, he could have had plenty of playing time. That's not including being the main PH off the bench.

 

Hendry didn't want anything to do with him because he hits right handed.

 

And he's not a speedy slap hitter.

[cubsfan26]

If they hadn't signed Miles, they most certainly could have offered Wiggington that many at bats. Between platooning with Fontenot at 2nd, spelling Lee, Ramirez, Soriano and Bradley, he could have had plenty of playing time. That's not including being the main PH off the bench.

 

 

Not really, there isn't that many AB's behind Ramirez/Lee, and you can't really expect Soriano to miss that much time again. The Cubs don't plan on Bradley being hurt alot, or they wouldn't have signed him. So how can the Cubs promise Wigginton 400 plus AB's, unless they could put him at SS. Because Wigginton isn't gonna play over Ramirez, Soriano, Lee or Bradley when their on the roster. He can't really play 2b anymore, and wouldn't get alot of AB's even if he played there. Miles might get 300 plus AB's, but he will get half his his AB's playing SS and filling in for Theriot. So I really don't think the LH/RH had alot to do with this move, since the Cubs are currently looking for a RH bench player, and Miles is better from the right side, then the left. Wigginton wanted regular playing time and the Cubs couldn't offer that, while the Orioles could. Especially with having the DH and Wigginton being a bad defensive player. I too would rather have Wigginton over Miles, but I'm not gonna be mad over this. Because I understand the situation.

[dew1679666265]

If they hadn't signed Miles, they most certainly could have offered Wiggington that many at bats. Between platooning with Fontenot at 2nd, spelling Lee, Ramirez, Soriano and Bradley, he could have had plenty of playing time. That's not including being the main PH off the bench.

 

 

Not really, there isn't that many AB's behind Ramirez/Lee, and you can't really expect Soriano to miss that much time again. The Cubs don't plan on Bradley being hurt alot, or they wouldn't have signed him. So how can the Cubs promise Wigginton 400 plus AB's, unless they could put him at SS. Because Wigginton isn't gonna play over Ramirez, Soriano, Lee or Bradley when their on the roster. He can't really play 2b anymore, and wouldn't get alot of AB's even if he played there. Miles might get 300 plus AB's, but he will get half his his AB's playing SS and filling in for Theriot. So I really don't think the LH/RH had alot to do with this move, since the Cubs are currently looking for a RH bench player, and Miles is better from the right side, then the left. Wigginton wanted regular playing time and the Cubs couldn't offer that, while the Orioles could. Especially with having the DH and Wigginton being a bad defensive player. I too would rather have Wigginton over Miles, but I'm not gonna be mad over this. Because I understand the situation.

 

Signing a major injury risk and then not preparing for the likelihood of him getting injured is foolish. That's one thing Hendry did well in 06 - he had major injury risks pitching (Wood and Prior), so he went out and got innings eaters in Jason Marquis and Ted Lilly.

 

If you have a guy who has averaged less than 100 games in the past 6 years, you should take precautions in case the inevitable happens - even if you think he's healthy. Wigginton could have been that precaution.

 

And Miles isn't a world beater defensively at second and he's pretty terrible at short - Wigginton can't be that much worse.

[CubColtPacer]

Imagine how much better this offseason could have been if Hendry would have waited a bit to test the market before making his major moves. He could have gotten Dempster and Bradley cheaper, would have gotten a better player than Miles for the same money, etc.

 

As others have said, I really doubt Dempster would have come cheaper. Every other major free agent pitcher (besides Sheets who is apparently currently injured still) has cashed in this offseason. Dempster was considered on the same level as Burnett and Lowe at the start of the offseason, and he got the lowest contract of the 3.

 

Bradley is much the same way albeit to a lesser extent. TB liked Bradley more than Burrell (they settled on Burrell when it was obvious Bradley was going to sign with the Cubs), and they gave Burell 2 for 16 so they likely were offering Bradley 2 for 18 or 2 for 20. The Cubs were willing to give him the semi-guaranteed 3rd year which is the main reason that Bradley came here.

 

I do agree that they could have positioned things to take better advantage of these bargain free agents though.

[cubsfan26]

Signing a major injury risk and then not preparing for the likelihood of him getting injured is foolish.

 

If Hendry thought there was a strong chance he would miss a good amount of time, then he wouldn't have signed him. Bradley wasn't healthy 05-07, Bradley is healthy right now. If Bradley goes on the DL, and is gonna be out for a long time. Then you bring in another veteran outfielder. It's no lock Bradley gets hurt for a long period of time, and playing Johnson/Hoffpauir/Gathright for 30-35 games isn't gonna kill us. If Bradley misses more then that there's a bunch of guys you can get to fill in for a very cheap. That guy doesn't have to be on the roster on opening day.

 

Wigginton could have been that precaution.

 

Why would Wigginton wanna come to the Cubs to be a precaution? He wants to play, not wait around for if or when guys get hurt so he can play.

[dew1679666265]

Signing a major injury risk and then not preparing for the likelihood of him getting injured is foolish.

 

If Hendry thought there was a strong chance he would miss a good amount of time, then he wouldn't have signed him. Bradley wasn't healthy 05-07, Bradley is healthy right now. If Bradley goes on the DL, and is gonna be out for a long time. Then you bring in another veteran outfielder. It's no lock Bradley gets hurt for a long period of time, and playing Johnson/Hoffpauir/Gathright for 30-35 games isn't gonna kill us. If Bradley misses more then that there's a bunch of guys you can get to fill in for a very cheap. That guy doesn't have to be on the roster on opening day.

 

Bradley has had extensive DL stints every year but one since 2002. He hasn't been healthy much at all in his major league career. To think he'll just magically be perfectly fine this year is not good planning. And it's not so easy as to just "bring in another veteran outfielder." Let's say Bradley goes down for 60 days and that's his only injury. I won't feel comfortable with Micah Hoffpauir as the primary RF for over a third of the season. Other teams will know the Cubs need another outfielder and will charge premium prices for crap. That's why you should have a strong bench entering the year and not fill it only with Joey Gathrights and Aaron Miles.

 

Here's what I posted to you in another thread about Bradley's health:

 

2002:

Suffered an orbital bone fracture and also had an appendectomy which led to two stints on the DL.

 

2003:

Had the best season of his young career with a .321-10-56-61-17 line over just 101 games. However, he missed the last six weeks of the year due to a lower back contusion.

 

There's three DL stints in the 02-04 seasons. He was healthy all year in 05, but was suspended for the final week of the season because he got pissed off. And for whatever reason it is that he's averaged less than 100 games a year since 2002, he still has. There are reasons - mostly injury, sometimes suspension.

[dew1679666265]

Wigginton could have been that precaution.

 

Why would Wigginton wanna come to the Cubs to be a precaution? He wants to play, not wait around for if or when guys get hurt so he can play.

 

I'm not certain he would have come here. But it's disappointing that I never heard anything about Hendry being interested in Wigginton. At least call him and ask.

 

And why might he come here? Hendry could tell him we have no backup 3B, no backup 1B, a super fragile RF, and a platoon situation at 2B. Cedeno got over 200 ABs as the backup at 2B and SS last year. Add in some ABs in RF and 3B/1B and he's close to 400.

[cubsfan26]

it's not so easy as to just "bring in another veteran outfielder." Let's say Bradley goes down for 60 days and that's his only injury. I won't feel comfortable with Micah Hoffpauir as the primary RF for over a third of the season. Other teams will know the Cubs need another outfielder and will charge premium prices for crap.

 

You worry way too much, teams aren't always evil and will charge premium prices for crap. Especially not for a their back up outfielder or a veteran outfielder. If the Cubs try to get a Garrett Anderson, Cliff Floyd, Ken Griffey, Luis Gonzalez, or someone like that. I really doubt teams will be charging a arm and a leg for guys they picked up for next to nothing this offseason. Sure it might take a few weeks for Hendry to find a deal at the right price, but do you really think some team won't give in at some point? If you do I think you worry way too much. Especially considering the Cubs picked up two outfielders that were released last year. Plus with the economy so bad, noncontending teams will be cutting payroll probably more then ever this season.

 

 

And why might he come here? Hendry could tell him we have no backup 3B, no backup 1B, a super fragile RF, and a platoon situation at 2B. Cedeno got over 200 ABs as the backup at 2B and SS last year. Add in some ABs in RF and 3B/1B and he's close to 400.

 

Cedeno had 4 AB's at 3rd base last year, and 82 AB's came as a SS, which Wigginton won't play. Again Wigginton doesn't wanna be a back up, and he wouldn't come to wait for these guys to get hurt. There's isn't many AB's backing up Lee and Ramirez in most seasons, and who knows if Wigginton can play 2b. Plus how do you know Hendry didn't call him up, and heard he wanted regular playing time and big money, then moved on to Miles? You don't know that and just like to complain like you have done all offseason. Like I have said over and over again, lets see what happens. Doesn't complaining over and over again, and saying the same thing get old? It's time to take those Mark DeRosa posters off you're wall, and see if Hendry is smarter then all of us again or not.

[dew1679666265]

it's not so easy as to just "bring in another veteran outfielder." Let's say Bradley goes down for 60 days and that's his only injury. I won't feel comfortable with Micah Hoffpauir as the primary RF for over a third of the season. Other teams will know the Cubs need another outfielder and will charge premium prices for crap.

 

You worry way too much, teams aren't always evil and will charge premium prices for crap. Especially not for a their back up outfielder or a veteran outfielder. If the Cubs try to get a Garrett Anderson, Cliff Floyd, Ken Griffey, Luis Gonzalez, or someone like that. I really doubt teams will be charging a arm and a leg for guys they picked up for next to nothing this offseason. Sure it might take a few weeks for Hendry to find a deal at the right price, but do you really think some team won't give in at some point? If you do I think you worry way too much. Especially considering the Cubs picked up two outfielders that were released last year. Plus with the economy so bad, noncontending teams will be cutting payroll probably more then ever this season.

 

I really don't want to replace Milton Bradley for an extended period of time with Garrett Anderson or Luis Gonzalez's 97 OPS+. And any of those guys would cost more than I'd like to pay - and very likely close to what we got for DeRosa if we're desperate.

 

Most good teams have backup plans. We are a good team, but I don't see a backup plan when Milton Bradley goes down for an extended period of time.

 

 

And why might he come here? Hendry could tell him we have no backup 3B, no backup 1B, a super fragile RF, and a platoon situation at 2B. Cedeno got over 200 ABs as the backup at 2B and SS last year. Add in some ABs in RF and 3B/1B and he's close to 400.

 

Cedeno had 4 AB's at 3rd base last year, and 82 AB's came as a SS, which Wigginton won't play. Again Wigginton doesn't wanna be a back up, and he wouldn't come to wait for these guys to get hurt. There's isn't many AB's backing up Lee and Ramirez in most seasons, and who knows if Wigginton can play 2b. Plus how do you know Hendry didn't call him up, and heard he wanted regular playing time and big money, then moved on to Miles? You don't know that and just like to complain like you have done all offseason. Like I have said over and over again, lets see what happens. Doesn't complaining over and over again, and saying the same thing get old? It's time to take those Mark DeRosa posters off you're wall, and see if Hendry is smarter then all of us again or not.

 

Actually I do get tired of complaining about it, but I also get tired of Hendry obsessing over a certain type of player (lefties or fast slap hitters) and getting those players at all costs. I'm also tired of the teams I root for losing and I haven't seen anything so far to make me think we're a better team than last year.

 

If Hendry called about Wigginton then fine, but that's why I put in my statement that I hadn't heard that he did. Usually, when Hendry has an interest in a player, we hear about said interest. Either Bruce will come on here and say that they've discussed it or Levine will throw it out there or something. Nothing like that happened with Wigginton and that, along with Hendry's obsession this offseason for speedy, slap hitting lefties, leads me to believe that he wasn't interested in Wigginton.

 

And the only poster of a player I have on my wall is of Peyton Manning. I also have some bull horns and skeleton head that were hung on the fence of my farm when we moved in. But that has nothing to do with baseball . . .

[cubsfan26]

but I also get tired of Hendry obsessing over a certain type of player (lefties or fast slap hitters) and getting those players at all costs.

 

 

I don't really recall Hendry adding those type of hitters the last two years. Just because he added Miles and Gathright that doesn't mean he is obsessing over that type of player. He just feels in mixing a few bench guys like that will help the bench and help them score runs easier late in games. I know Gathright speed could be a nice asset, over pinch running Marquis or whoever else last year. Piniella said this offseason, that he felt the Cubs offense problem in the playoffs was. That they had too many of the same type of player. Almost all of them were RH, and almost all of them swang for the fences. So the Cubs wanted to add a few slap hitters, LH bats and guys with speed to mix things up a bit. This team still has a ton of power, and isn't gonna be lacking power next year at all.

 

 

I'm also tired of the teams I root for losing and I haven't seen anything so far to make me think we're a better team than last year.

 

Then have a little faith in the first GM, to bring us back to back division titles, and more wins in a season in 60 plus years. Many didn't think last year team was better then 07 either. We still have two months to opening day lets see what the team looks like then. If when they start playing they don't appear better then last season, then feel free to make these comments again. But right now, almost every post you make has something to do with you being upset over trading DeRosa, signing Miles or Bradleys health. Put it this way when was the last time Hendry didn't cover himself a little, when he's had injury prone players? So either he truely believes, the guys we have hear can do the job better then guys we had last year(which is possible), or he's still gonna make a couple of moves before opening day. Do you really think Lou will put up with Johnson getting alot of AB against RH pitching, or Gathright playing everyday? If Hoffpauir isn't on the team hitting well? Lou wasn't happy with that type of situation last year and thats why we signed Edmonds. All I'm trying to say is take a break on the complaining, and give it some time.

Edited February 4, 2009 by cubsfan26

[inari]

Blind pessimism is annoying, but so is blind optimism. Just throwing it out there.

[dew1679666265]

I'm also tired of the teams I root for losing and I haven't seen anything so far to make me think we're a better team than last year.

 

Then have a little faith in the first GM, to bring us back to back division titles, and more wins in a season in 60 plus years. Many didn't think last year team was better then 07 either. We still have two months to opening day lets see what the team looks like then. If when they start playing they don't appear better then last season, then feel free to make these comments again. But right now, almost every post you make has something to do with you being upset over trading DeRosa, signing Miles or Bradleys health. Put it this way when was the last time Hendry didn't cover himself a little, when he's had injury prone players? So either he truely believes, the guys we have hear can do the job better then guys we had last year(which is possible), or he's still gonna make a couple of moves before opening day. Do you really think Lou will put up with Johnson getting alot of AB against RH pitching, or Gathright playing everyday? If Hoffpauir isn't on the team hitting well? Lou wasn't happy with that type of situation last year and thats why we signed Edmonds. All I'm trying to say is take a break on the complaining, and give it some time.

 

I have faith in Hendry, but I don't understand the moves he's making. I understood the offseason plan last year and, thus, didn't complain. But I can't just sit back and have no opinion on anything when a team I love is - from all appearances - getting worse.

 

If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to admit to it and give Hendry his due. I've been wrong on a number of the moves he's made and I've been right on quite a few. If I'm wrong here, I'll happily admit to it. But from what I've seen this offseason, I don't understand how we've improved. If Hendry proves to be a mad genius who flies in the face of stats, great. But I'm seeing more Neifi Perezs and Jose Macias' than I am Ted Lillys and Jim Edmonds'.

[dew1679666265]

Blind pessimism is annoying, but so is blind optimism. Just throwing it out there.

 

I'm actually normally very optimistic, but there's just something sticking in my craw this offseason.

[cubsfan26]

Blind pessimism is annoying, but so is blind optimism. Just throwing it out there.

 

 

I don't have any blind optimism I have good reason for why I feel this way. If we have major injuries and there's a problem it will be taken care of, so will the depth. Lou/Hendry wanna win way too bad, not to make things happen. Too many fans are WAY to negative and freak out on Febuary 3rd. But whats new I saw this stuff the last two years, and I felt the Cubs were gonna be better then most did, and they were.

[cubsfan26]

But I can't just sit back and have no opinion on anything when a team I love is - from all appearances - getting worse.

 

 

Which I agree with, but you have expressed this same opinion over and over again for the last month. I think everyone on this board knows how you feel about DeRosa, Miles and Bradley by now. But every chance you get you bring up, your issues with this. It has to come to a point were, you just sit back and see what happens.

[dew1679666265]

But I can't just sit back and have no opinion on anything when a team I love is - from all appearances - getting worse.

 

 

Which I agree with, but you have expressed this same opinion over and over again for the last month. I think everyone on this board knows how you feel about DeRosa, Miles and Bradley by now. But every chance you get you bring up, your issues with this. It has to come to a point were, you just sit back and see what happens.

 

This offseason if we stopped talking about the bad moves (or, if you prefer, the "perceived" bad moves) Hendry was making, we wouldn't be talking about Cubs baseball at all (except for the Milton Bradley signing and maybe the Heilman trade).

 

That would make for a pretty dead board.

[cubsfan26]

Honestly other then DeRosa trade and Miles signing, I have been happy with this offseason. But even with that move, I think it was more to get Fontenot regular playing time, and I still think the Cubs have some type of back up plan for Bradley. Like I said in the past I wouldn't have made that move, but I'm willing to give it a chance. But I like signing Bradley, I like resigning Dempster for below market value, I like not giving Wood a big contract and adding Gregg, I like adding Heilman, I like trading Marquis, I like Miles over Cedeno, I'm ok with Gathright as the 25th man, and I don't really care about Blanco or Bako. So I'm fine with the offseason, besides the DeRosa trade, but who knows maybe Hendry has a trade in mind for Mark Teahan or something.

[dew1679666265]

Honestly other then DeRosa trade and Miles signing, I have been happy with this offseason. But even with that move, I think it was more to get Fontenot regular playing time, and I still think the Cubs have some type of back up plan for Bradley. Like I said in the past I wouldn't have made that move, but I'm willing to give it a chance. But I like signing Bradley, I like resigning Dempster for below market value, I like not giving Wood a big contract and adding Gregg, I like adding Heilman, I like trading Marquis, I like Miles over Cedeno, I'm ok with Gathright as the 25th man, and I don't really care about Blanco or Bako. So I'm fine with the offseason, besides the DeRosa trade, but who knows maybe Hendry has a trade in mind for Mark Teahan or something.

 

I would've liked Bradley a lot more if we had depth on the bench (i.e. DeRosa). I liked resigning Dempster, I'm so/so on the Wood for Gregg swap, fine with Heilman, a little down on trading Marquis, ok with Gathright since Pie had to go, don't care on Bako and very unhappy with the Miles/DeRosa fiasco, even if the reason was to give Fontenot more playing time it still wasn't good and didn't make sense.

 

Dump Miles and add Wigginton and a good bench bat and I'd feel a lot better about this offseason.

[Backtobanks]

I'd have taken Wigginton over Miles..

Seconded

 

Yea, Wigginton at $3 mil a year is far better than Miles at $2.5 mil a year.

 

Plus, given our platoon situation at second and the likelihood of Bradley getting hurt in right (and Wigginton being moderately passable there, I believe), he would have gotten pretty decent playing time as well.

 

The only problem is that you're ignoring the timing of the signings. Wigginton wouldn't have signed for $3 million earlier, but now he's getting desperate. Abreu may end up signing for $7 or $8 million (for 1 year), but he was looking for something like $36 million over 3 years earlier.

 

Why did we have to make the move when we did? The season hasn't started yet - it would seem shrewd to wait out the players in order to get a better player at a similar price.

 

In your scenario, Hendry got worried nobody would be available and jumped on Miles too early. Had he waited, we've seen a player of Wigginton's caliber was available much later, and at a similar price, as Miles.

 

I can fully see the playing time issue as I'm sure the O's will give him more than we can, but that's about the only argument I can understand.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

1. Miles was offered nearly the same contract by the Cardinals.

2. Bradley would have signed and been off the market.

3. Dempster would have been signed and off the market.

4. There was no guarantee that Wigginton would be available (or that he would sign with the Cubs) as late as February.

 

Most of what I posted above would have likely happened, which would have left the Cubs without a RF, SP, and sub MI. I suppose if none of that happened, the Cubs could have saved quite a bit of money, but was it worth the risk involved in waiting?

[Illini Iceman]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

[dew1679666265]

I'd have taken Wigginton over Miles..

Seconded

 

Yea, Wigginton at $3 mil a year is far better than Miles at $2.5 mil a year.

 

Plus, given our platoon situation at second and the likelihood of Bradley getting hurt in right (and Wigginton being moderately passable there, I believe), he would have gotten pretty decent playing time as well.

 

The only problem is that you're ignoring the timing of the signings. Wigginton wouldn't have signed for $3 million earlier, but now he's getting desperate. Abreu may end up signing for $7 or $8 million (for 1 year), but he was looking for something like $36 million over 3 years earlier.

 

Why did we have to make the move when we did? The season hasn't started yet - it would seem shrewd to wait out the players in order to get a better player at a similar price.

 

In your scenario, Hendry got worried nobody would be available and jumped on Miles too early. Had he waited, we've seen a player of Wigginton's caliber was available much later, and at a similar price, as Miles.

 

I can fully see the playing time issue as I'm sure the O's will give him more than we can, but that's about the only argument I can understand.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

1. Miles was offered nearly the same contract by the Cardinals.

2. Bradley would have signed and been off the market.

3. Dempster would have been signed and off the market.

4. There was no guarantee that Wigginton would be available (or that he would sign with the Cubs) as late as February.

 

Most of what I posted above would have likely happened, which would have left the Cubs without a RF, SP, and sub MI. I suppose if none of that happened, the Cubs could have saved quite a bit of money, but was it worth the risk involved in waiting?

 

I've already said I'm fine with the timing of the Bradley and Dempster signings. A bad hitting, poor defending middle infielder isn't exactly tough to find, though. I don't understand jumping on one when there are better ones (Wigginton) still on the table. If you're going to jump on a player quickly, he better be very valuable (Demp, Bradley) and Miles simply isn't in any way valuable.

[dew1679666265]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

[Illini Iceman]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

[dew1679666265]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

 

Not awesome, but a decent enough #5 starter. Good enough to not throw away for scraps.