Wigginton and Orioles reach 2 year deal

[Hairyducked Idiot]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

 

At worst, he's an average major league starter. Maybe a little better.

[Illini Iceman]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

 

Not awesome, but a decent enough #5 starter. Good enough to not throw away for scraps.

 

I am sure that Hendry didn't think about that. If only he had called a few teams to see if they would give him more than scraps. What an idiot.

[dew1679666265]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

 

Not awesome, but a decent enough #5 starter. Good enough to not throw away for scraps.

 

I am sure that Hendry didn't think about that. If only he had called a few teams to see if they would give him more than scraps. What an idiot.

 

I haven't been criticizing Hendry that much for the move. You were the one that brought up Marquis and I said my stance on him has been consistent for a couple years now. We lost Marquis for slightly more than scraps (the hope that Vizcaino can be healthy and pitch well), but gained Heilman. I'm ok with that.

[Illini Iceman]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

 

At worst, he's an average major league starter. Maybe a little better.

 

He was mediocre and highly paid. I find it hard to believe that between Marshall, Gaudin, Shark and Heilman the Cubs won't be able to at least match Marquis' expected production. The advantage to those guys (besides the cost) is they all have the flexibility to pitch out of the pen (or sent down to AAA) if they aren't needed in the rotation. If you have Marquis he is pretty much in the rotation or bust since he has never really pitched out of relief and has shown that he would not be willing to do it happily.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He was mediocre and highly paid. I find it hard to believe that between Marshall, Gaudin, Shark and Heilman the Cubs won't be able to at least match Marquis' expected production. The advantage to those guys (besides the cost) is they all have the flexibility to pitch out of the pen (or sent down to AAA) if they aren't needed in the rotation. If you have Marquis he is pretty much in the rotation or bust since he has never really pitched out of relief and has shown that he would not be willing to do it happily.

 

I'm not going to get bogged down in what qualifies as "mediocre," but if you list all the pitchers employed in the majors as starters the last few years, he's in the top half.

 

Marshall is the only one of those four who projects to be around Marquis' equal in 2009, and even then only if you don't take durability into account.

[hankp101]

He was mediocre and highly paid. I find it hard to believe that between Marshall, Gaudin, Shark and Heilman the Cubs won't be able to at least match Marquis' expected production. The advantage to those guys (besides the cost) is they all have the flexibility to pitch out of the pen (or sent down to AAA) if they aren't needed in the rotation. If you have Marquis he is pretty much in the rotation or bust since he has never really pitched out of relief and has shown that he would not be willing to do it happily.

 

I'm not going to get bogged down in what qualifies as "mediocre," but if you list all the pitchers employed in the majors as starters the last few years, he's in the top half.

 

Marshall is the only one of those four who projects to be around Marquis' equal in 2009, and even then only if you don't take durability into account.

 

Just by taking a quick look at the FIPs for the three projections fangraphs lists and the EqERAs on PECOTA, it sure looks like just about any combination of the two could reasonably be expected to match Marquis' production this year. None of them may throw as many innings, but it looks like the package could very well be better.

[cubsfan26]

Didn't Chad Gaudin put up very simliar numbers to Marquis in 2007 as a starter? He had a 4.43 era, pitched 199 innings and had simliar WHIP at age 24. I don't see why Gaudin couldn't possibly repeat those numbers or better at age 26 next season.

[Backtobanks]

My favorite thing is how Marquis went from a complete waste of a roster spot who should be outright released at the end of last season to a valuable 5th starter and innings eater once he was traded by Hendry.

 

I doubt you'll find many people who argued both sides. It's just that one side was more vocal then, and the correct side was more vocal after the trade.

 

I've been in favor of keeping Marquis for a while. Before last season I was saying we shouldn't dump him for peanuts.

 

Yeah, he is awesome.

 

Not awesome, but a decent enough #5 starter. Good enough to not throw away for scraps.

 

I am sure that Hendry didn't think about that. If only he had called a few teams to see if they would give him more than scraps. What an idiot.

 

Marquis was traded to save money and open a spot for Peavy. I know the rumors say the deal is dead, but I still think Peavy could end up on the Cubs no later than the trade deadline. I'm sure a lot depends on the health of Harden and the success of our #5 starters, but the bottom line is:

1. The Padres still can't afford Peavy.

2. Peavy has a NTC and only wants to go to the Cubs.

3. The Cubs have the resources (in players and money) to be able to acquire Peavy after all of the financial aspects of the sale are settled.

[dew1679666265]

Didn't Chad Gaudin put up very simliar numbers to Marquis in 2007 as a starter? He had a 4.43 era, pitched 199 innings and had simliar WHIP at age 24. I don't see why Gaudin couldn't possibly repeat those numbers or better at age 26 next season.

 

Gaudin was a little worse than Marquis was this year. Marquis had a 101 ERA+ in 2007, while Gaudin had a 95. Marquis' 2008 ERA+ was 99.

[cubsfan26]

Didn't Chad Gaudin put up very simliar numbers to Marquis in 2007 as a starter? He had a 4.43 era, pitched 199 innings and had simliar WHIP at age 24. I don't see why Gaudin couldn't possibly repeat those numbers or better at age 26 next season.

 

Gaudin was a little worse than Marquis was this year. Marquis had a 101 ERA+ in 2007, while Gaudin had a 95. Marquis' 2008 ERA+ was 99.

 

 

True, but most of that was because Gaudin kinda wore down towards the end of the year(after relieving all of 06). I don't see him making 34 starts, as our 5th starter. If you keep it to 28-31 starts, I can see simliar numbers to Marquis. Plus Gaudin is still kind of a young pitcher he might improve a little bit still. Just as long as he doesn't fall down drunk and hurt his back like last season. I still think the best situation for us is Gaudin as the 5th starter, Marshall as the swing guy, and Heilman as the 7th or 8th inning reliever. I think Marshall can stay stretched better then Gaudin, and feel Heilman can be a really good reliever when he's right.

[dew1679666265]

Didn't Chad Gaudin put up very simliar numbers to Marquis in 2007 as a starter? He had a 4.43 era, pitched 199 innings and had simliar WHIP at age 24. I don't see why Gaudin couldn't possibly repeat those numbers or better at age 26 next season.

 

Gaudin was a little worse than Marquis was this year. Marquis had a 101 ERA+ in 2007, while Gaudin had a 95. Marquis' 2008 ERA+ was 99.

 

 

True, but most of that was because Gaudin kinda wore down towards the end of the year(after relieving all of 06). I don't see him making 34 starts, as our 5th starter. If you keep it to 28-31 starts, I can see simliar numbers to Marquis. Plus Gaudin is still kind of a young pitcher he might improve a little bit still. Just as long as he doesn't fall down drunk and hurt his back like last season. I still think the best situation for us is Gaudin as the 5th starter, Marshall as the swing guy, and Heilman as the 7th or 8th inning reliever. I think Marshall can stay stretched better then Gaudin, and feel Heilman can be a really good reliever when he's right.

 

I'd prefer Marshall as the fifth starter and Gaudin and Heilman in the pen. At some point we'll need to give Marshall some starts off and then Gaudin or Heilman can get some starts.

[cubsfan26]

I'm fine with Marshall as the 5th starter, I'm just worried about Gaudin or Heilman staying stretched out enough as swing guys. Since we will never know when Harden might need a start or two skipped. I think Marshall is best suited to be pitching out of the pen for a month, and can step in and start random games when needed. Plus I don't think there will be that much of a difference between Marshall and Gaudin when starting 30 games or so. I think both guys can be good number 5's next year, and average number 4's on teams with average pitching staffs.

 

 

 

I think Heilman has the talent to be better then both, but I'm not counting on him to figure it out as a starter now. When he couldn't 3-4 years ago, when he was starting all the time. It's possible though, it depends on if his velocity drops as a starter, and how good he gets his 3rd pitch. It doesn't appear he has the same work ethic that made Dempster so good last year though, but we don't really know much about Heilman either.