2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[jersey cubs fan]

I would feel there's no way the Bears do that because it would be stupid, and because Ron Turner wouldn't know how to make it work.

 

since Ron Turner probably isnt doing the formal and/or funcion of drafting, I dont think we need to worry about it

 

So the GM is going to ignore how his coaches coach when making decisions? Is he also going to ignore the Bears are primarily a cover-2 team that emphasizes speed over size?

 

Angelo doesn't draft guys that don't fit what they need and can use. He might draft guys that ultimately suck, but they fit profiles.

[WrigleyField 22]

Ultimately I'm not sure I would call it a stupid idea, but it would certainly be risky as all hell.

 

The problem for me is that there has been some success in the NFL with the Wildcat, but we have no idea if that will stay or if teams will figure it out. My gut would be to say that defenses figure out how to defend it and it doesn't expand more than a gimmick offense or a "trick play".

 

However, I'm not willing to say that theres no chance that the Wildcat could be used more extensively and have long term, sustainable success. That 10% chance intrigues me as a fan of the game. Its the same reason I was interested in the A-11 offense in High School (before it died). It'd be exciting as a fan to see some innovation.

 

That being said, its obviously risky and I'd feel nervous. Worst case scenario though is it fails, we suck, get a high pick, and clean house on management and coaching.

 

Overall, as a fan I want to see more Wildcat, but I don't want to see my team be the one that failed miserably at it.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I would feel there's no way the Bears do that because it would be stupid, and because Ron Turner wouldn't know how to make it work.

 

since Ron Turner probably isnt doing the formal and/or funcion of drafting, I dont think we need to worry about it

 

So the GM is going to ignore how his coaches coach when making decisions? Is he also going to ignore the Bears are primarily a cover-2 team that emphasizes speed over size?

 

Angelo doesn't draft guys that don't fit what they need and can use. He might draft guys that ultimately suck, but they fit profiles.

 

1. Turner coaches offense, so I'm not sure why he would want cover-2 guys

2. my post was simply a joke inferring Turner wont actually complete the act of the draft, ie, he probably wont be the one submitting the actual pick to the NFL on draft day

[jersey cubs fan]

Ultimately I'm not sure I would call it a stupid idea, but it would certainly be risky as all hell.

 

The problem for me is that there has been some success in the NFL with the Wildcat, but we have no idea if that will stay or if teams will figure it out. My gut would be to say that defenses figure out how to defend it and it doesn't expand more than a gimmick offense or a "trick play".

 

However, I'm not willing to say that theres no chance that the Wildcat could be used more extensively and have long term, sustainable success. That 10% chance intrigues me as a fan of the game. Its the same reason I was interested in the A-11 offense in High School (before it died). It'd be exciting as a fan to see some innovation.

 

That being said, its obviously risky and I'd feel nervous. Worst case scenario though is it fails, we suck, get a high pick, and clean house on management and coaching.

 

Overall, as a fan I want to see more Wildcat, but I don't want to see my team be the one that failed miserably at it.

 

The wildcat just isn't that interesting to me. It's how they played football 70 years ago. The Bears desperately need offensive lineman, WR and help on defense. Spending a 2nd rounder on White to potentially run some wildcat plays would be an incredible waste of resources. If he's around in the 5th, fine.

[WrigleyField 22]

I would feel there's no way the Bears do that because it would be stupid, and because Ron Turner wouldn't know how to make it work.

 

since Ron Turner probably isnt doing the formal and/or funcion of drafting, I dont think we need to worry about it

 

So the GM is going to ignore how his coaches coach when making decisions? Is he also going to ignore the Bears are primarily a cover-2 team that emphasizes speed over size?

 

Angelo doesn't draft guys that don't fit what they need and can use. He might draft guys that ultimately suck, but they fit profiles.

Maybe Ron Turner thinks he could implement a Wildcat offense and is trying to convince Angelo of it.

 

Also, in the NFL coaches generally aren't that long term. You'll take the right player and replace the coach later if he can't utilize the player with a coach who can utilize him rather than pass up the opportunity for a good player because of your current coach. The exception would be if you have a strong system that has proven success. For instance you're not going to get a 4-3 DE when you run a 3-4. However, I don't necessarily see a strong system with our offense, so I'll take the right players, whether it was Pat White or anyone else. Our offense can change.

[WrigleyField 22]

It'd also be a waste to spend a second rounder on a return man.

 

If this was 2006.

[Soul]

At least we knew he'd be a good returner. With White I'm not sure if he'd be a good WR, or a good QB. It's possible he just plain old won't be good.

 

4th round or he's a reach.

[jersey cubs fan]

It'd also be a waste to spend a second rounder on a return man.

 

If this was 2006.

 

Return man was actually a big need that year.

[WrigleyField 22]

True, but a good return man touches the ball a few times a game. IF White or any other QB became a good Wildcat QB, even for just 12% of the snaps, which is how much Miami ran it last year, thats 7 or 8 plays. If you upped that to 20-30%, that would yield 12-18 plays per game.

[jersey cubs fan]

True, but a good return man touches the ball a few times a game. IF White or any other QB became a good Wildcat QB, even for just 12% of the snaps, which is how much Miami ran it last year, thats 7 or 8 plays. If you upped that to 20-30%, that would yield 12-18 plays per game.

 

I think White in the 2nd would be a bad idea and the Bears won't do it. If they did, they'd fail to implement it properly. If you think otherwise fine, but I'm not sure what this discussion is about anymore.

[WrigleyField 22]

It'd also be a waste to spend a second rounder on a return man.

 

If this was 2006.

 

Return man was actually a big need that year.

It wasn't a second round need. We had Berrian, Davis, and possibly Vasher all capable of doing so.

 

Plus many fans felt he would have been around much longer.

[WrigleyField 22]

True, but a good return man touches the ball a few times a game. IF White or any other QB became a good Wildcat QB, even for just 12% of the snaps, which is how much Miami ran it last year, thats 7 or 8 plays. If you upped that to 20-30%, that would yield 12-18 plays per game.

 

I think White in the 2nd would be a bad idea and the Bears won't do it. If they did, they'd fail to implement it properly. If you think otherwise fine, but I'm not sure what this discussion is about anymore.

Its a discussion of the hypothetical scenario of running the Wildcat offense and spending a second or third rounder on Pat White to do so. It kind of became whether or not the Bears would do it, but I was originally less concerned about whether or not they would. Just curious how people would feel if they did.

 

I'd be intrigued and nervous, but excited for the possibility it could work, and you think its a stupid idea.

[jersey cubs fan]

It'd also be a waste to spend a second rounder on a return man.

 

If this was 2006.

 

Return man was actually a big need that year.

It wasn't a second round need. We had Berrian, Davis, and possibly Vasher all capable of doing so.

 

Plus many fans felt he would have been around much longer.

 

It was a pretty big need, much more than "wildcat QB" is right now. Davis was a just signed DB converting to WR. Berrian was in the process of becoming the featured WR and Vasher was not a return candidate. Their 2 primary returners from the before were gone, and if I remember correctly, had some serious fumble issues. It was an 11 win team with a great defense, weak offense and shaky special teams. They wanted playmakers and drafted 2 returners to make those plays. They didn't have huge holes on the offensive lines. They had Moose and Berrian, plus a halfway decent Justin Gage and the converted Davis for receivers (plus felt giving Grossman the job from the start would help) and didn't feel a need there. They didn't have any significant defensive needs. And felt comfortable making specific improvements to the return game.

 

This team is completely different. They have needs on the OLine, WR, and really need fresh bodies on defense. They don't have the luxury of screwing around with a guy who might make a decent wildcat QB in the 2nd round.

[jersey cubs fan]

True, but a good return man touches the ball a few times a game. IF White or any other QB became a good Wildcat QB, even for just 12% of the snaps, which is how much Miami ran it last year, thats 7 or 8 plays. If you upped that to 20-30%, that would yield 12-18 plays per game.

 

I think White in the 2nd would be a bad idea and the Bears won't do it. If they did, they'd fail to implement it properly. If you think otherwise fine, but I'm not sure what this discussion is about anymore.

Its a discussion of the hypothetical scenario of running the Wildcat offense and spending a second or third rounder on Pat White to do so. It kind of became whether or not the Bears would do it, but I was originally less concerned about whether or not they would. Just curious how people would feel if they did.

 

I'd be intrigued and nervous, but excited for the possibility it could work, and you think its a stupid idea.

 

What I don't get is you seem to want it to happen, deny wanting it, then support it.

 

Do you want them to draft Pat White in the 2nd round?

[WrigleyField 22]

I never said specifically that I wanted it to happen, but that I'd be intrigued by the possibility.

 

However, it'd also be contingent on a few other things.

 

1. Trade down to the late first or early second to pick up an additional second rounder so we could still fill needs.

2. Pick him with the last second rounder or the third rounder. I'd want to fill needs first.

3. We are trying him as a Wildcat QB. I don't see him having value as a "traditional" QB

4. Probably would want a new OC, but obviously that won't happen now. Turner gets one season to try it out though.

 

So let's just say we trade down and looked like this:

 

Rd2a- Robert Ayers- DE or Louis Delmas- FS or WR (BPA-Britt,Williams,Robiskie,etc)

Rd2b- Phil Loadholt- RT or Best Available Lineman (Guard or Tackle)

Rd2c- Pat White

Rd3- BPA (WR/DE/FS) -whatever we didn't address before

Rd3/4*- BPA (WR/DE/FS) -whatever we didn't address before

Rd4-7- Whatever, BPA, RB, LB, CB, anything

*Comp pick for Berrian

 

That first pick I would really prefer to be WR because its more pressing than DE or FS, but just kind of depends on who's around.

 

I'd be pleased enough that will filled some needs that we then took a chance on White. Also, as far as trading down goes thats only if there isn't a really good pick to be made at 18. For instance, I wouldn't want to trade down with Maclin on the board so we could possibly get Pat White later. So I don't really think the draft plan should be lets trade down so we can get Pat White. Rather, if we happened to trade down just because we liked the value, and Pat White was still around after we filled some needs that'd be okay.

 

So to answer the question if I want it to happen:

I'd say kind of, but kind of not, but I'd definitely be intrigued as long as the draft played out in a way that we still filled our needs.

[jersey cubs fan]

So the answer is no, you don't. :wink:

[WrigleyField 22]

I guess. Its all very hypothetical anyways though.

[Soul]

I'm starting to hate the term "wildcat" now like I hate other buzz words that seem to pop up in sports.

[TruffleShuffle]

yeah eventually teams will realize that "wildcat" means "line up a non-quarterback in the shotgun behind center and then run the ball." i guess every 1 out of 200 plays where the coach is ballsy enough to throw it you'll get burned if you run blitz your entire D, but i'd say most of the time it's a pretty safe call.

[WrigleyField 22]

yeah eventually teams will realize that "wildcat" means "line up a non-quarterback in the shotgun behind center and then run the ball." i guess every 1 out of 200 plays where the coach is ballsy enough to throw it you'll get burned if you run blitz your entire D, but i'd say most of the time it's a pretty safe call.

It also involves an unbalanced line most of the time.

 

Also, what else are we supposed to call it? Do terms like Cover 2, West Coast, etc bother you. Its just a term that everyone mutually agrees to call a particular thing.

[dew1679666265]

The Bears have signed S Glenn Earl, who is making a comeback after mending from a Lisfranc injury in his foot.

 

Chicago has reached a contract agreement with free-agent safety Glenn Earl, who hasn't played in the NFL the past two seasons. Earl will sign a one-year contract, believed to be worth the veteran minimum salary of $620,000.

[WrigleyField 22]

I got an answer from the guy over at RealGM and here's what he has to say about the Bears and White:

 

They like his potential for development at QB without the pressure to play him right away. They really do not want to take a QB in the 1st because they respect Orton enough (among other reasons), but in the 2nd they can justify him not playing at QB next year. And he can contribute in Wildcat packages or a few snaps as a Slash-type, like on 3rd and short or goal line sets which is something they are focused on improving. They spent an inordinate amount of time with him at both the Senior Bowl and Combine and he's the type of person Lovie loves.

 

Based on that quote, I wouldn't be happy with the Bears drafting White.

[RedFlash]

I got an answer from the guy over at RealGM and here's what he has to say about the Bears and White:

 

They like his potential for development at QB without the pressure to play him right away. They really do not want to take a QB in the 1st because they respect Orton enough (among other reasons), but in the 2nd they can justify him not playing at QB next year. And he can contribute in Wildcat packages or a few snaps as a Slash-type, like on 3rd and short or goal line sets which is something they are focused on improving. They spent an inordinate amount of time with him at both the Senior Bowl and Combine and he's the type of person Lovie loves.

 

Based on that quote, I wouldn't be happy with the Bears drafting White.

 

I wouldn't mind drafting White in the 3rd round or so, but any higher and it would be a mistake.

[rawaction]

Too many other needs to pick White in the 2nd, and maybe even the 3rd. I understand the need to get better in short yardage situations. It was a huge problem for the Bears last year. But the best way to do that isn't to find a player to run gimmick offensive schemes. The best way to improve in short yardage is to get bigger and better on the offensive line. I'd hate to miss out on a DE, WR, or OL because of spending a top 3 pick on a QB who has serious questions on whether he can play that position. I think he can play QB and would be great in the wildcat as soon as this season, but then I go back to the Bears inability to show they can develop a QB like White. I'd rather go after a guy that has the QB pedigree and some upside like Bomar or Cantwell, who will be available much later.

[Guest]

This offseason seems to be getting more and more painful by the day.