LH RF trade option?

[8654]

SF needs just about everything. We have a few potentially spare pieces . . . and they have Randy Winn in RF. He is a S/H, respectable on defense, stole 25 bags last year (caught 2x = 93%), had .353 and .363 OBP's last 2 years and '09 is his contract year.

 

We have guys we COULD trade IF IT MEANT BETTERING THE TEAM. SF could use Marquis. And Weurtz. And Cedeno. Fontenot, although I really like him & see him as our 2B next year and for several more after. We have prospects that are expendable. Really, and I know this is very unpopular here, we could even trade Derosa and let Font have 2B.

 

What I'm getting at is this: SF has to take on salary to get competitive and they ARE doing so in the FA market. Financially, trading Marquis and _______ for Winn would either be a push or lower our payroll slightly. Being that JH still plans to ADD payroll for a LH RF (i.e. Abreu), trading for Winn makes a lot of sense for US as it would leave that LH RF earmarked $$$$$ to pay Peavy instead.

 

So, discussion:

1. would SF trade Winn?

2. do we want him?

3. what would it take to get him?

[UK1679666180]

Welcome to the board...

 

1. I don't see why they would trade him. They appear to be trying to win now (despite lacking the talent to do so, IMO) and he's their best offensive player.

 

2. I'm sure the Cubs would be interested if he was available

 

3. Don't know.

[Outshined_One]

Randy Winn is not nearly enough of an upgrade over Fukudome to justify trading for him. No thank you.

[8654]

If Winn isn't enough of an upgrade, then who is? Abreu??? I don't see any areas where Abreu is significantly better except HR. You can't fairly say anything about RBI because Winn hit leadoff a lot and he was on an offensively AWEFUL team. Put him 5th on the Cubs and see how many RBI & R he gets. Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt? Could those HR jump to 15 - 17 ish? Winn would be much better on defense than Abreu or Dunn(not even a RF). He's good with RISP (what we need!), including runner on 3B w/ less than 2 out (BIG problem for us), he can play anywhere in the OF and hit anywhere in the lineup. He hits LHP & RHP well and had a .384 OBP in day games last year. AND, Winn is a switch hitter. The other options are Ibanez, who would cost us draft picks, or Teahen - definitely not the answer. Who else is out there?

 

The feasibility I see on SF's part is that this is the last year on Winn's contract. I don't see them resigning him. Do you? They could trade him for several parts (guys like Marquis, Weurtz, Pie, Cedeno, etc...) and turn around and sign Abreu to a similar salary as Winn. Guys like Marquis, Weurtz and Cedeno could help them immediately. They aren't superstars, but they could be relatively cheap and effective parts if SF does get CC. Don't forget CC likes Cali & hitting. CC, Lincecum, Cain, Marquis with the additions of Renteria, Abreu and whoever they get for 3B makes them contenders in the weak NL West.

[Garwilly]

Who can name the last player to be traded for a manager, who then winded up playing for him on a third team?

[UK1679666180]

If Winn isn't enough of an upgrade, then who is? Abreu??? I don't see any areas where Abreu is significantly better except HR. You can't fairly say anything about RBI because Winn hit leadoff a lot and he was on an offensively AWEFUL team. Put him 5th on the Cubs and see how many RBI & R he gets. Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt? Could those HR jump to 15 - 17 ish? Winn would be much better on defense than Abreu or Dunn(not even a RF). He's good with RISP (what we need!), including runner on 3B w/ less than 2 out (BIG problem for us), he can play anywhere in the OF and hit anywhere in the lineup. He hits LHP & RHP well and had a .384 OBP in day games last year. AND, Winn is a switch hitter. The other options are Ibanez, who would cost us draft picks, or Teahen - definitely not the answer. Who else is out there?

 

The feasibility I see on SF's part is that this is the last year on Winn's contract. I don't see them resigning him. Do you? They could trade him for several parts (guys like Marquis, Weurtz, Pie, Cedeno, etc...) and turn around and sign Abreu to a similar salary as Winn. Guys like Marquis, Weurtz and Cedeno could help them immediately. They aren't superstars, but they could be relatively cheap and effective parts if SF does get CC. Don't forget CC likes Cali & hitting. CC, Lincecum, Cain, Marquis with the additions of Renteria, Abreu and whoever they get for 3B makes them contenders in the weak NL West.

 

They're just as much likely to bring him back as anyone is to signing him as a FA and Abreu will likely get 4+ mil per year than Winn is making for '09.

 

Their salary players right now are making 64.15 mil, add Renteria and poss. his 9 mil and they're at 73.15 mil. Last year, they had a payroll of 76mil and the highest it's ever been is 90mil.

 

They don't have what it takes to get CC.

 

I don't see why they would want 3 scrap parts with one of them being expensive in Marquis to create another hole that they'll have to overspend for in the FA market.

[imb]

Who can name the last player to be traded for a manager, who then winded up playing for him on a third team?

 

yikes, now that is good trivia.

[17 Seconds]

i don't think you're aware that randy winn is not very good

 

i'd rather let fontenot play every day then get that guy. he's not an upgrade to what we have and he's expensive for the crappy production he provides

[17 Seconds]

If Winn isn't enough of an upgrade, then who is? Abreu??? I don't see any areas where Abreu is significantly better except HR. You can't fairly say anything about RBI because Winn hit leadoff a lot and he was on an offensively AWEFUL team. Put him 5th on the Cubs and see how many RBI & R he gets. Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt? Could those HR jump to 15 - 17 ish? Winn would be much better on defense than Abreu or Dunn(not even a RF). He's good with RISP (what we need!), including runner on 3B w/ less than 2 out (BIG problem for us), he can play anywhere in the OF and hit anywhere in the lineup. He hits LHP & RHP well and had a .384 OBP in day games last year. AND, Winn is a switch hitter. The other options are Ibanez, who would cost us draft picks, or Teahen - definitely not the answer. Who else is out there?

 

nearly every argument that you made in this paragraph is completely irrelevant

[BigbadB]

If Winn isn't enough of an upgrade, then who is? Abreu??? I don't see any areas where Abreu is significantly better except HR. You can't fairly say anything about RBI because Winn hit leadoff a lot and he was on an offensively AWEFUL team. Put him 5th on the Cubs and see how many RBI & R he gets. Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt? Could those HR jump to 15 - 17 ish? Winn would be much better on defense than Abreu or Dunn(not even a RF). He's good with RISP (what we need!), including runner on 3B w/ less than 2 out (BIG problem for us), he can play anywhere in the OF and hit anywhere in the lineup. He hits LHP & RHP well and had a .384 OBP in day games last year. AND, Winn is a switch hitter. The other options are Ibanez, who would cost us draft picks, or Teahen - definitely not the answer. Who else is out there?

 

nearly every argument that you made in this paragraph is completely irrelevant

 

This guy is brand new to the board and this is the best you have to offer? Why don't you explain yourself in a little more detail as a way to encourage friendly discussion?

[8654]

So am I to understand that you consider adequate defense (vs. ABREU), speed, OBP, batting order versatility, hitting with RISP, hitting RH & LH pitching and playing well during the day to be irrelevant in consideration of player acquisitions for the Chicago Cubs? And lets not forget that he only K'ed 88 times in 598 AB which is very good for today's players.

 

You said Abreu will command $4 mil more than Winn. Winn makes over $8 mil. NOBODY IS GOING TO PAY ABREU $12+ MIL. Ain't gonna happen. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Anyways, what exactly is relevant in your book? What qualities should JH be looking for in a RF? Let me guess . . . 40+ HR Dunn, right? Or Ibanez, who is not that much better than Winn if at all (all around) and would cost us draft picks ON TOP of his salary? Should JH just go throw more $$$$ at the problem & sign a defensive liability for the next 3 - 4 years? Should he not try to unload the expendables for 1 year with a good ballplayer just because some Cubs fans rate players only by how big their name & fame are? Tell me, smart guy, what is the answer in RF?????????

 

I'm all for discussion and opinions, but really . . . your comment was uncalled for and ridiculous. Maybe trading for Winn might be a ridiculous concept, too. But let's here YOUR idea instead of insults. Thank you.

 

BTW, I remember you from the other MB a few years back. Same ol Dex, heh? Does this MB have an ignore function also?

[Rob]

Does this MB have an ignore function also?

 

Yeah. It's in your user control panel. You want to set him as a "foe." Most everybody else already has.

 

I agree that in no way should we be looking at Dunn, Abreu, or Ibanez... but I'd avoid Winn as well. I'd be just fine going into next season with Pie in CF and Fukudome in RF... with a healthy dose of Reed Johnson for either when there's a lefty on the mound.

[Mephistopheles]

i think my foe list rivals anyones here.

[Rob]

i think my foe list rivals anyones here.

 

Mine is pretty vanilla. Just the nine loudest idiots.

[UK1679666180]

You said Abreu will command $4 mil more than Winn. Winn makes over $8 mil. NOBODY IS GOING TO PAY ABREU $12+ MIL. Ain't gonna happen.

 

1st off, don't use that tone with me. You show me where I acted like a smart-ass towards you and then I'll merit your snide remark. If not, save it for someone who wants to put up with petty BS, I don't.

 

2nd, it is still quite possible that Abreu will get 12 mil. once this FA ball starts rolling, espec. when the Cubs and Mets are involved in the bidding. These are two unwilling to follow collusion tactics and would rather outbid by blowing away offers rather than get involved in a bidding war ala Soriano and Beltran.

[17 Seconds]

first of all, i never said anything about wanting abreu. also, i'm not the one getting all defensive and copping an attitude.

 

i'll break this down for you since most of your arguments are about stats that don't really matter

 

You can't fairly say anything about RBI because Winn hit leadoff a lot and he was on an offensively AWEFUL team. Put him 5th on the Cubs and see how many RBI & R he gets.

 

runs/rbis are a terrible way to evaluate a player's worth. they are a team stat based on lineup positioning.

 

Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt?

 

san fransisco isn't really a pitcher's park

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2008

 

Winn would be much better on defense than Abreu or Dunn(not even a RF).

 

why do you keep comparing him to those guys? those aren't the only options. it's not like we have to get one of those guys. i wouldn't want any of those guys with the price they'll come at. winn is not good defensively, so that's what we should be saying. we shouldn't be congratulating him for being slightly better than other crappy defenders.

 

He's good with RISP (what we need!),

 

again, terrible way to evaluate a player's worth. most people here would say that clutch hitting is a myth and risp hitting is mostly luck, which is why it jumps around from year to year.

 

winn caeer- .288 .347 .425 .771

winn career w/risp- .282 .350 .415 .765

 

he's actually slightly worse with risp.

 

also, why do you say the cubs desperately need guys who hit in risp? not that it matters, but the cubs were 2nd in the NL w/risp. zing

 

he can play anywhere in the OF

 

not well. soriano "can" player anywhere in the of too

 

and hit anywhere in the lineup.

 

anyone can. it's been shown that lineup contruction is close to meaningless. there are tools where you can check that out.

 

and had a .384 OBP in day games last year

 

a couple things wrong with this

 

a) small sample size.

 

winn career day games- .270 .338 .386 .724

winn career night games- .296 .350 .442 .792

 

so he's actually significantly worse in day games. i don't know why that matters anyways.

 

b) even last year (the year you're referencing), you just cherry picked OBP and ignored his other stats. he had a high obp, but you left out that he had a .389 slugging percentage (.446 at night). his ops was 25 points lower in day games. again, it doesn't matter, but your argument wasn't even correct.

 

my point is that winn is not that good. we're already really tight with payroll and we want to add 8.25 million for a guy who put up the following ops numbers over his career?

 

.704

.673

.664

.740

.821

.771

.772

.733

1.071 (231 ab)

.721

.798

.790

 

give me a break. that's what we want out of rf, and that's what we want to waste valuable payroll on? awful. fukudome wasn't that far off of those numbers last season.

 

like i said, i'd rather give fontenot a full time job than waste money on winn. fontenot's career ops is now .826, which is higher than winn has EVER put up in a full season. granted those numbers are a little bit skewed since fontenot has been platooned...but still, i'd be willing to bet he could match winn's high .700's OPS and wouldn't cost 8.25 million to do it.

 

not really a surprise that you come from cubs.com

[haubrich91]

I'm pretty sure I'd rather have Jacque Jones over Randy Winn. That salary is just plain nasty.

[Guest]

not really a surprise that you come from cubs.com

This would have been a great post if you could have just resisted the temptation to throw this line in there.

[JockJones]

I'm pretty sure I'd rather have Jacque Jones over Randy Winn. That salary is just plain nasty.

 

You rang?

[DiamondMind]

never thought i'd say it, but dexter...is pretty much correct in that last post

[Rob]

never thought i'd say it, but dexter...is pretty much correct in that last post

 

The only thing he did that had me really roll my eyes was the Soriano quip. I still don't get why people think he's a terrible defender at a position manned by the likes of Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez, Raul Ibanez, and Pat Burrell.

[17 Seconds]

never thought i'd say it, but dexter...is pretty much correct in that last post

 

The only thing he did that had me really roll my eyes was the Soriano quip. I still don't get why people think he's a terrible defender at a position manned by the likes of Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez, Raul Ibanez, and Pat Burrell.

 

i never said anything about him being terrible in left field. my point was that he "can" play center field, but not really

[8654]

You said Abreu will command $4 mil more than Winn. Winn makes over $8 mil. NOBODY IS GOING TO PAY ABREU $12+ MIL. Ain't gonna happen.

 

1st off, don't use that tone with me. You show me where I acted like a smart-ass towards you and then I'll merit your snide remark. If not, save it for someone who wants to put up with petty BS, I don't.

 

2nd, it is still quite possible that Abreu will get 12 mil. once this FA ball starts rolling, espec. when the Cubs and Mets are involved in the bidding. These are two unwilling to follow collusion tactics and would rather outbid by blowing away offers rather than get involved in a bidding war ala Soriano and Beltran.

 

 

I appologize. I didn't mean to address you that way. I thought Dex posted that. Just trying to throw it back at him . . . cause he deserves it . . . always. But, the way the market is deteriorating and with all the gun-shy GM's who don't want to F-up by potentially wasting $$$$ in this economy, it is unlikely that Abreu will get that much. The trend has been developing the last couple years - GM's are getting more frugal. If they can't get a good price for a FA, they trade for young MLB ready kids or promote from within. We especially saw that last year.

[CoolHandLuke]

 

Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt?

 

san fransisco isn't really a pitcher's park

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2008

 

I pretty much agree with you on not wanting Winn at all, but I have an issue with this.

 

First off, one year park factors are pretty meaningless, and secondly, even in 2008 when run scoring in SF was up, it still stifled homers, which was basically his point. Wow, that was a very comma-ey sentence.

[javy knows my name]

 

Also, Winn has been hitting 10 - 15 HR/yr in pitcher friendly parks like SF and SD. What if he played more games in Wrigley, Houston, Cin & Pitt?

 

san fransisco isn't really a pitcher's park

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2008

 

I pretty much agree with you on not wanting Winn at all, but I have an issue with this.

 

First off, one year park factors are pretty meaningless, and secondly, even in 2008 when run scoring in SF was up, it still stifled homers, which was basically his point. Wow, that was a very comma-ey sentence.

I'll add that SBC is also significantly less friendly to left-handed hitters due to the gigantic RF power alley