Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[RyneDawson]

I agree.

[Tyrant]

I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

 

You seem like you would have commanded a lot of respect from the players.

[RyneDawson]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

 

You think we won all those games cuz of Lou being a great manager? The only thing he had to do was that whenever we had a lead, just put Marmol in to hold them. We won because we had great players. Lou didn't have much to do with it. I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

There are certainly legitimate issues to criticize Lou over. His use of the bench isn't one of them. No manager is perfect. None of them ever make the right call 100% of the time. The fact is however, the numbers suggest Lou did a better job then just about every other manager in the game last year at managing the bench. Just because you can think of a couple of occasions where his decisions didn't work out doesn't mean you're right. Numbers are numbers, facts are facts, and you're wrong.

 

What numbers show that Lou managed the bench better than any other manager last year? Just cuz we had guys on the bench like Reed Johnson and Fontenot who were actually better than some of the starters like Fukudome? What numbers show that Lou did anything that any person with common sense wouldn't do?

[David]

Awesome, now we have to rely on Marquis again and we know Harden will miss a ton of starts so its going to be another mess in the rotation..Im really not liking what I'm seeing so far this offseason..

 

Assuming we don't make a deal involving the rotation, how is the 2009 rotation worse than the 2008 rotation that won the NL Central?

 

Zambrano, Harden (part time), Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, + Marshall >>>>>>> Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, Gallagher/Marshall

 

Why is Harden not a part of the 2008 rotation that won the NL Central?

[RyneDawson]

I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

 

You seem like you would have commanded a lot of respect from the players.

 

I don't think respect won them any games either. Plus all managers should have respect from the players. It shouldn't be that hard.

[Jehrico]

Awesome, now we have to rely on Marquis again and we know Harden will miss a ton of starts so its going to be another mess in the rotation..Im really not liking what I'm seeing so far this offseason..

 

Assuming we don't make a deal involving the rotation, how is the 2009 rotation worse than the 2008 rotation that won the NL Central?

 

Zambrano, Harden (part time), Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, + Marshall >>>>>>> Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, Gallagher/Marshall

To be fair, our rotation right now is the same as it was in the second half last year. I expect more of the same from Zambrano and Lilly. I expect Marshall to improve. I don't expect Harden to replicate his ~2.00 ERA, nor do I expect Dempster or Marquis to do as well as they did last year. I don't expect Marshall to do so much better as the 6th starter to make up for any declines in performance from Harden, Demp, and/or Marquis. That's all based on pure guesses as to how everyone will do next year, but still...it's not unreasonable to say that as of right now, our rotation in 2009 isn't projecting to be as good as it was in the second half of last year. In other words, it has not improved, it just costs more.

 

I still think it will be very good though.

[David]

I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

 

You seem like you would have commanded a lot of respect from the players.

 

I don't think respect won them any games either. Plus all managers should have respect from the players. It shouldn't be that hard.

 

Now you're getting a bit absurd.

 

If you honestly think players would respect some fan off the streets as their manager, you're delusional.

[Jehrico]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

 

You think we won all those games cuz of Lou being a great manager? The only thing he had to do was that whenever we had a lead, just put Marmol in to hold them. We won because we had great players. Lou didn't have much to do with it. I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

There are certainly legitimate issues to criticize Lou over. His use of the bench isn't one of them. No manager is perfect. None of them ever make the right call 100% of the time. The fact is however, the numbers suggest Lou did a better job then just about every other manager in the game last year at managing the bench. Just because you can think of a couple of occasions where his decisions didn't work out doesn't mean you're right. Numbers are numbers, facts are facts, and you're wrong.

 

What numbers show that Lou managed the bench better than any other manager last year? Just cuz we had guys on the bench like Reed Johnson and Fontenot who were actually better than some of the starters like Fukudome? What numbers show that Lou did anything that any person with common sense wouldn't do?

Find me another team whose bench players did better than ours collectively. Hell, we almost got a .300 BA out of Henry freaking Blanco. We got over a .900 OPS out of Fontenot. We had just about the best offensive centerfield in all of baseball by platooning Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson. It's not a stretch to say all of those guys had good years because Lou did a good job of putting those guys in the right position. Edmonds and Johnson are not better than Carlos Beltran, Fontenot isn't a .900 OPS hitter. Blanco isn't a .292/.325/.395 hitter either. So either all of those guys were flukes and Lou is a horrible manager, or Lou did a pretty good job getting the right guys into the right matchups. Do you really believe all of those guys coincidentally had fluke seasons? Can you name another team who got so much out of their bench?

 

As far as Fukudome, I was frustrated at Lou's insistance at playing him so much when it was obvious he just wasn't getting it, but that has nothing to do with Lou's obsession with matchups and his use of the bench. In fact, Lou's obsession with Fukudome to a flaw was actually undermines your assertion that his obsession with matchups hurts the team, as his use of Fukudome wasn't based on matchups as nearly as much as it should have been on the second half.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Jehrico

[David]

That or just trolling... :-"

[UK1679666180]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

 

Pinilla never pinch hit with Blanco until the roster were expanded b/c they only had 2 catchers on the 25 man roster.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Now you're getting a bit absurd.

 

If you honestly think players would respect some fan off the streets as their manager, you're delusional.

 

The players are competitive professionals. They will do their best, at at least a reasonable imitation, regardless of whether they respect the manager.

[Jehrico]

Now you're getting a bit absurd.

 

If you honestly think players would respect some fan off the streets as their manager, you're delusional.

 

The players are competitive professionals. They will do their best, at at least a reasonable imitation, regardless of whether they respect the manager.

Unless they're as talented and ignorant at the same time as Manny....

[David]

Now you're getting a bit absurd.

 

If you honestly think players would respect some fan off the streets as their manager, you're delusional.

 

The players are competitive professionals. They will do their best, at at least a reasonable imitation, regardless of whether they respect the manager.

 

Which is not what the question was, but you're right.

[RyneDawson]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

 

Pinilla never pinch hit with Blanco until the roster were expanded b/c they only had 2 catchers on the 25 man roster.

 

That's the thing.... We only did have 2 catchers, but he still pinch hit with Blanco! And I'm not saying that any fan off the street can come in and get respect from the players. But Baker got a ton of respect, and I'm sure any other manager in the majors can come to our team, get respect, and win. And as far as our bench having the best batting average.... what does that have to do with Piniella? They hit good because they are good.

[JWCUB]

Pads GM: 'ChancChecked in on the Jake Peavy Watch today with Kevin Towers.

 

The San Diego Padres GM isn't giving up hope that he can find a new home for Peavy, one of the game's best righthanded pitchers whose salary is not too big for the Padres' diminishing payroll. So I won't give up asking about it.

 

Towers disagreed with me that the best chance for a deal might still be the Braves. At the moment, he appears to be favoring the Cubs' chances.

 

 

"I think there's a chance of maybe putting together a deal with Chicago,'' Towers said. "At least I know he's willing to go there.'' e' of Peavy-Cubs deal, but not soon

 

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/26501

[RyneDawson]

Pads GM: 'ChancChecked in on the Jake Peavy Watch today with Kevin Towers.

 

The San Diego Padres GM isn't giving up hope that he can find a new home for Peavy, one of the game's best righthanded pitchers whose salary is not too big for the Padres' diminishing payroll. So I won't give up asking about it.

 

Towers disagreed with me that the best chance for a deal might still be the Braves. At the moment, he appears to be favoring the Cubs' chances.

 

 

"I think there's a chance of maybe putting together a deal with Chicago,'' Towers said. "At least I know he's willing to go there.'' e' of Peavy-Cubs deal, but not soon

 

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/26501

 

Yeah that was posted yesterday. Piniella saying that he doesn't need a pitcher was posted today. I hope Hendry gets him though.

[Jehrico]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

 

Pinilla never pinch hit with Blanco until the roster were expanded b/c they only had 2 catchers on the 25 man roster.

 

That's the thing.... We only did have 2 catchers, but he still pinch hit with Blanco! And I'm not saying that any fan off the street can come in and get respect from the players. But Baker got a ton of respect, and I'm sure any other manager in the majors can come to our team, get respect, and win. And as far as our bench having the best batting average.... what does that have to do with Piniella? They hit good because they are good.

You say Lou's obsession with matchups hurt us. I say he did very good. I already pointed out stats of some of our guys and the overall quality of our bench, and our team record as evidence. Can you provide any hard evidence to back up your assertion that Lou's use of matchups hurt the team more than it helped? Where did he rank in comparison to the other 29 managers?

 

You say you could have won 97 games with our team. Let's look at what we actually won 97 games with...

1b - DLee...showed way less power than we projected, one of the worst #3 hitters in baseball. If you want to criticize Lou, get on him for not dropping DLee in the order.

2b - DeRosa was excellent, but it's not like he was one of the best in the league. He was 5th in the league in OPS. Don't get me wrong, that's very good, but it's not like he put up Chase Utley numbers at 2nd either.

SS - Theriot got on base well, played below average defense, got caught stealing alot which negated alot of his OBP advantage for the position, showed no power.

3B - Aramis had a good year, but it was his worst since he's been with us offensively. Still one of the best 3b in the leagues though.

C- Geovany Soto. No need to say more.

LF - Soriano, our most expensive player, provided slightly above average offensive production for the position, missed almost a third of the season, played so-so defense aside from showing a great arm when throwing guys out at the plate.

CF - platoon between Reed Johnson, who was released by the Blue Jays at the end of ST, and Jim Edmonds, who was released from the Padres. Basically, a mash of castoffs that no one else wanted.

RF - Fukudome, hot start, great defense, only got worse offensively throughout the year. Finished with the 4th worst OPS in MLB among qualified RFers.

 

Lou got considerably less production from the big bats (Aramis, DLee, and Soriano) than we expected. Geo and DeRo stepped up and were really the only consistant bright spots in the offense, Lou worked the CF situation to perfection. We had a good rotation with a several guys who couldn't be counted on to go more than 5-6 on any given start (Z, Harden, Marquis/Marshall) coupled with a bullpen that mostly failed to perform outside of Marmol and Wood.

 

You make it sound like we had a team that rivaled the Yankees of the late 90s and anyone could have won with them, when the truth couldn't be further from what you're making of it. Lou had his flaws, and they were frustrating, but he held the team together very well and got alot out of what he had during the regular season. I doubt very many others could have guided us to 97 victories last year.

[Jehrico]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

 

Pinilla never pinch hit with Blanco until the roster were expanded b/c they only had 2 catchers on the 25 man roster.

 

That's the thing.... We only did have 2 catchers, but he still pinch hit with Blanco! And I'm not saying that any fan off the street can come in and get respect from the players. But Baker got a ton of respect, and I'm sure any other manager in the majors can come to our team, get respect, and win. And as far as our bench having the best batting average.... what does that have to do with Piniella? They hit good because they are good.

Blanco is not almost a .300 hitter, Fontenot is not a .900 OPS guy, Edmonds is no longer a .930+ OPS guy, Johnson is not a nearly .800 OPS guy. Hoffpauir isn't a .930+ OPS guy either. They did well because they were used in the right situations more often than not. Otherwise, they'd be starting for someone else and not sitting on our bench.

[UMFan83]

Why do people care what Piniella says? He's not the GM, Hendry is. Sure he could have some influence in what Hendry does, but do you really think he's going to object to acquiring one of the best pitchers in baseball?

[Jehrico]

Why do people care what Piniella says? He's not the GM, Hendry is. Sure he could have some influence in what Hendry does, but do you really think he's going to object to acquiring one of the best pitchers in baseball?

Piniella is probably saying what Hendry wants him to say. I don't think everyone understands the concept of negotiations. We're the only team left standing on Peavy's list of clubs he'll accept a trade to, and Towers has basically been ordered to trade him. The Cubs (mainly Hendry, Piniella needs to support him) need to show that they don't need Peavy as much as SD needs to get rid of him, and that we're willing to walk away, in order to keep the upper hand in the negotiations. As soon as it becomse obvious that we need him more than SD needs to trade him, then it's easier for them to ask for more from us. Piniella doesn't dictate who is on the team. His only role in these offseason talks is to support Hendry's role in negotiations.

[wade]

That's the thing.... We only did have 2 catchers, but he still pinch hit with Blanco!

 

I'm not sure I found them all (though I think I did), but here is my examination of Henry Blanco's PH appearances in 2008-

 

04-09 PH in the 13th, 5th guy off bench, after Zambrano PH already earlier in the game

 

05-07 PH for Soto in a 9-0 loss

 

05-23 PH for Ramirez in 9th of a 12-3 blowout

 

06-13 PH for Edmonds in 8th of 3-2 loss vs. lefty Scott Downs - Reed Johnson and Ronnie Cedeno also pinch hit in this same inning. This fits your earlier claim, but Blanco was sent out with every other righty this instance. None got on base.

 

06-20 PH for Hoffpauir in 8th- Derosa, Murton, Cedeno were already in - this fits your claim

 

06-24 5th guy to PH, came in for Eric Patterson

 

07-26 bunted for Marmol in 10th

 

08-01 PH for Marmol, 4th guy to PH this game

 

08-10 3rd to PH, in for Shark in a 10-2 win

 

08-17 Edmonds announced, lefty brought in, Blanco PH for Edmonds, walked and Cubs score 8 runs in the inning

 

08-25 PH for Rammy in a 12-3 win

 

08-26 PH for Marshall, 3rd PHer of game

 

08-31 PH and singled for Howry in 8th

 

09-02 PH for Fontenot in 10th, 3rd PHer of game

 

09-05 PH for Guzman in 7th of a blowout loss

 

09-16 Ward announced, Blanco in to face lefty for Ward, Blanco singles

 

So, according to what I found quickly, Blanco came in for lefties rarely and actually did a pretty good job when he did. He mostly came in after other options were used, or for pitchers, or for Ramirez in a blowout.

[RyneDawson]

Yeah but WHY pinch hit him for Fontenot in those spots? Why pinch hit him for Hoff or Edmonds?? Would you rather have Blanco up against a lefty than Fontenot, Hoff or Edmonds against a lefty? I wouldn't.

[Backtobanks]

Awesome, now we have to rely on Marquis again and we know Harden will miss a ton of starts so its going to be another mess in the rotation..Im really not liking what I'm seeing so far this offseason..

 

Assuming we don't make a deal involving the rotation, how is the 2009 rotation worse than the 2008 rotation that won the NL Central?

 

Zambrano, Harden (part time), Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, + Marshall >>>>>>> Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, Gallagher/Marshall

 

Why is Harden not a part of the 2008 rotation that won the NL Central?

 

I was comparing starters going into each season, so the 2009 rotation going into the season looks more promising than the 2008 rotation did. There seems to be a lot of nay-saying about Dempster for 2009, but with this rotation he only needs to perform like a #3 or #4 starter. Of course that's assuming Zambrano, Harden (when healthy), and Lilly do as expected.

[CubColtPacer]

Yeah but WHY pinch hit him for Fontenot in those spots? Why pinch hit him for Hoff or Edmonds?? Would you rather have Blanco up against a lefty than Fontenot, Hoff or Edmonds against a lefty? I wouldn't.

 

I absolutely would rather have Blanco up there against a left-hander than Fontenot or Edmonds. 3 year splits against left-handers for each:

 

Fontenot: .247/.305/.370

Edmonds: .169/.233/.293

Blanco: .287/.321/.420

 

Other than 2007 when he was playing with a major injury, Blanco has been better than a .700 OPS against left-handers every year since 2004. He had a .759 OPS against them in 2005, an .870 in 06, and .771 last year.

 

The danger is that you lose Edmond's superior bat for the rest of the game. But if you're in the 8th or 9th facing a left-hander, Blanco is a much better option for that at-bat.

[Clem Fandango]

I can't wait for this thread to get locked a 2nd time for going off topic